I recently purchased an N scale set with 24 inch circle. It currently fits on the 24"x48" table next to my computer desk.
I would like to create a figure 8 using a 90 degree cross-over.
Just "eyeballing" the circle it looks like I can remove 3 of the 11 pieces of 11.25" curved track and put in some straight track and the cross-over. Then create another 8 piece circle and straight track to finish the figure 8.
I don't know how to calculate the straight track, but have considered buying 5" straight track and various sizes of straight track.
1) Does this seem reasonable?
2) Would the overall "length" (outside track) exceed 48 inches?
(Instead of the cross-over, I have seen 16-piece graduated trestles on different sites, but Bachmann doesn't seem to have it on their site. Questions #1 and #2 apply to this scenario, as well.)
TIA.
Doug,
I'm certain that you will need a table longer than 48".
Formulas are near the bottom of this thread page:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,28172.15.html
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
HI DougInCal,
Time for some trig, get your calculator.
Building a figure 8 using a 90 degree crossing the formula looks like this;
Strleg = r - (xlength/2)
Where Strleg = Straight leg from the crossing (you will need 4),
and xlength = Crossing length across opposite faces.
The 90 degree crossing measures 1.125.
Overall length of the layout (track centers) is;
The radius of the loop
PLUS
The radius of the loop times the sine of half of the crossing angle times the tangent of half the crossing angle
PLUS
The radius of the loop times the cosine of half of the crossing angle.
Double that sum to get the full length and add an extra inch for the roadbed.
This is from the thread Joe mentions above.
Post your maths and your results, several of us here actually like this kind of stuff.
@Joe
I don't know how to write the proper equation that expresses that formula for overall length.
Can you help here?
I'm thinking;
r + [r(sin xdeg/2)(tan xdeg/2)] + r(cos xdeg/2)
and/or
r + [r(sec xdeg/2)]
Maybe
r+ r(sec xdeg/2)
Is this proper?
Please correct me if not.
Thanks
The only way you will fit either version of a figure 8 in the space provided is with flex track with really sharp curves that would restrict you to running only 40' rolling stock and only 4 axle diesels or 0-4-0's or a porter or something like that. If you can increase your space to 3' x 5' it should fit comfortably without anything too close to the edge.
I have to agree with the others, that you need a larger space. Doing any thing in model railroading that is half way done will com back to bite you. Or frustrate you so much that you quite.
Those here have made many mistakes, so you do not have to do them. :o
Hi, James.
Nice to hear from you again.
I would put any (complicated) equation into Microsoft Excel spreadsheet format.
Use the same function abbreviations, and be careful of parenthesis placement.
Hope this helps.
Joe
Theory aside. I designed a few options in rrtrack 5
1) to use 90 deg you need 24x57ish
2) if you use a 30 deg x it will fit using 8 sections of 0.875" straights.
I ordered the 30 degree crossover, and a pack of various connectors. To get 8 of the .875 I would have had to order several packs. So...I'll see if I can cobble together these and maybe it will work.
Thanks for the help.
Yes, unfortunately they (.875) only come two in a pack, four packs is going to be big $$$.
That's as close as you're going to get with EZ track unless you cut it.
I calculate that to be only .028 over per leg.
EZ track will forgive more than that into each of the 11 curve sections.
Quote from: DougInCal on January 26, 2015, 10:19:34 PM
I ordered the 30 degree crossover, and a pack of various connectors. To get 8 of the .875 I would have had to order several packs. So...I'll see if I can cobble together these and maybe it will work.
Thanks for the help.
I played with the smaller pieces. Multiple combinations will come close. The track should be forgiving enough. The closest was 1.875 on one approach a 0.75 and 0.875 on the other approach.
As much as I'm a cult follower of Bachmann Steamers, I also am a cult follower of another ballasted track brand. This 30 deg crossover has me thinking about some small space ideas. Please post how it works out.
Well, my track is "in the mail", so now all I have to do is wait.
I was wondering if EZ-Track is compatible with "another ballasted track brand?"
I can see how this hobby can become addicting. I am already thinking about moving my bookshelves out of my office/computer room and using that space, and the space of the existing 4' x 2' table, to create a layout table.
I am thinking of running a shallow grade along the wall (single track) out of the layout table, and then using a loop over my terminal (still an old CRT) to return to the main table. Is a gap in the track of the loop all that is required to handle the polarity when leaving the loop, or is wiring required?
Ken P, I browsed your photos and was impressed with all that work! Do you have any "overview" images of the whole layout?
The short answer on compatabilty is no, but.... With some creativity you can make a conversion piece, by modifying track ends. What you envision around the crt is called a reverse loop. And it will need some wiring. Best you google n scale reverse loop for wiring info. While it isnt complicated, it is very well described. I run a bunch of loops in small spaces. There will be a space issue if you want to stick to the fig 8 and add this track as the turnouts aren't tight enough to fit without making the loop to big for the table. Kato and Tomix make tighter turnouts, but the software I use doesnt include them. For simply running though you could easily make something that stretched 1/2 of the figure 8 to be the loop around the crt. You could also skip the figure 8 an have 2 concentric loops, so you would end up with 4 tracks on the shelf. The outer loop could be bachmann, which is fine. The inner loop Kato or Tomix, as they make smaller radii.
Addicting no... well a bit... umm a lot
As to the shallow grade, try to keep it at 2 percent or less. There are myriad reasons, but simply put, the higher the grade, the shorter the train and some locos are better on grades than others
Also bmann does make a graduated trestle pn 42523, but I am not sure it would fit on the 30 deg figure.
Also, which loco do you have, so we can check the incline performance
The engine is a Santa Fe diesel, "F7-A Diesel Locomotive with All-Wheel Drive ...", from the box. (also, two cars and a caboose.)
I was looking at the U.P.® #1838 - Prairie 2-6-2 & Tender, with E-Z-Mate® Mark II coupler on tender. Some threads discuss different couplers, and I was wondering if my rolling stock from the kit (previous post) would work with this engine/tender. The box doesn't include information about the couplers.
The couplers look like a thumb and fingers curled into a loose "C." They don't connect when pushed together, but must be connected by lifting one and dropping it in vertically.
The Bachmann 2-6-2 comes with a operating knuckle coupler, your rolling stock from the other set has Rapido style couplers most likely from your description, the 2-6-2 will include an older Rapido coupler though and you can change it out to use it with your other rolling stock very easily.
EzMates will mate with any knuckle coupler. Here is a good start on the different types Of couples. The 2 main styles are Rapido and knuckle. Rapido only mates w rapido. All knuckle couplers will mate with rach other yo varying degrees. I would keep the train set you bought as is and going forward I'd focus on locos and cars with knuckle coulplers http://www.nscaledivision.com/information_on_couplers.htm
I believe I will use the flex track and DCC locos in the future, but retain the E-Z Track figure 8 as a stand alone center piece. I should be able to come up with a design to integrate the two (not electrically, of course). I don't want to throw away the money that I have spent, so far.
I may have mentioned that I have a couple of Bachmann HO sets that I increased to larger ovals, interleaved with a set of trestles, so that they would run parallel on the floor around my coffee table. They are, when unpacked :), about 6' x 3'. I stopped using them a few years ago because I had to constantly clean the track. I have seen some advice to use denatured alcohol to clean the tracks, which I will try.
What are your thoughts about integrating both scales in one layout, as I continue with this hobby? Will it look weird?
Look wierd to who? Enjoy! As to constantly cleaning track, it is more likely a function of the pickup characteristics of your specific HO locos than the track. I have locos that will run through anything and locos that find every patch of dirt. For the amount of track you are planning, so far, wiping it down with 91% alcohol from the drug stire will be quick and easy
I received my E-Z Track 30 deg crossover, but the piece seems too short, to allow two pieces of track on each side. What am I missing?
QuoteI received my E-Z Track 30 deg crossover, but the piece seems too short, to allow two pieces of track on each side. What am I missing?
You are missing the trigonometry.
Get your calculator (it's on your PC).
The four straight legs are each "radius times the tangent of half the crossing degrees, minus half the crossing length".
Strleg = r x [tan (xdeg/2)] - xlength/2. (4x)
Connect straight sections together to get as close as possible to Srtleg result.
Let me restate this question. When I try to connect two tracks to each side of the crossover there isn't space for both connections. The railroad bed would have to be cut away.
Here is piece from the Bachmann site:
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2786
Yes, you will have to cut the roadbed corners at an angle to fit, to butt flush against the crossing.
Before you order the Prarie 2-6-2, read the thread on Page 2 called PRARIE 2-6-2 ON A GRADE. I had problems with mine, and this WONDERFUL group offered many excellent suggestions. First, save a little money and get tho 0-6-0. It is the same loco without the leading and trailing trucks, which are unnecessary trouble. Second, keep the grade to 2%. It is very important! 2% grade means 2 inch rise over a 100 inch run.
Gordon
Seems like it has been longer than a month since I started this thread, but thanks for all of your help, folks.
I received the 30 deg crossover, but had to order a saw/blade combo from Micro-Mark to do the surgery on the short tracks. I just did the trimming and the cuts were not too bad. I used two 1 1/2" and two 1" sections.
The tech at Bachmann suggested gluing/epoxying the pieces to the crossover.
Both loops use 11 7.25" curved tracks.
However, the cars derail on the crossover. The diesel handles it okay, although it still sounds like a bumpy ride. It seems like the "re-railer" guides on the crossover may be causing this problem.
Has anyone had this problem with the 30 deg crossover?
I just thought to try running the train the in opposite direction, and it doesn't have the derailing problem. Curious! But at least I can enjoy the fruits of my labor and expenses.
I thought to add that I am using one 1 1/2" and one 1" piece on each side of the 30 deg crossover. However, I was too intent on the cutting and the two similar sized pieces are in line with each other. Doesn't seem to be a problem, but wish I hadn't done that. Maybe I will hold off on the gluing for awhile.
In general, for derailments, the solution is run the train as slowly as you can, and watch. Also, take the figure 8 apart and build a straight track in the direction of the derailment. What happens? it might give you an idea.
If it derails in one direction, but not the other, check for flash or other junk between the guardrail and stock rail. Also make sure the rail joiners on the side it derails from are actually on both rails, and not sliding under one of them.
Len
Quote from: kmcsjr on February 22, 2015, 07:05:18 AM
Also, take the figure 8 apart and build a straight track in the direction of the derailment. What happens? it might give you an idea.
Are you suggesting creating a small oval with the crossover as part of the straight track?
I have been looking at the guardrails and they seem to be clean.
I learned the hard way to check the joint with my finger to ensure that the connection is correct.
I purchased a rug to put on the top of the plastic table, which really reduces the running noise.
I isolated the crossover in an oval and found that the track is good in one direction and fails in the opposite direction, for both combinations. I numbered the opposite sides, such that "3 to 1" is okay, but "1 to 3" fails; "2 to 4" is okay, but "4 to 2" fails.
I have looked at the crossover closely and cannot see any problems. At least I found that the short connectors weren't the problem.
Recreated the fig 8 and still have the problem in one direction.
If you have a loose freight truck, roll it through the crossing with a little down pressure. See if the wheels are falling into the gap between the 'diamond' and stock rails. Or trying to turn like it's on a switch. It's the places to the left and right of the area circled in red:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/Pickanotherid/EZ-Track/30D-N_zpsmvvz1quh.jpg)
I had that problem with an HO 30deg crossing. Closing the gaps up with a bit of styrene cured the problem.
Len
I visited a couple of model shops today. The first suggested adding weight to my cars, but they didn't have any of the "tire weights" in stock. When I went to the second R/R model shop, they came up with the same suggestion.
The weights with adhesive backing come in .25 oz (I think it is oz) squares and they suggested cutting them in half for the N scale. I removed the "coal" from my coal car and placed a .25 weight in front (next to the loco) and that has seemed to fix the problem, running in both directions. I haven't yet tried it with the half-size, but will do that tomorrow.
It appears that the problem is that when the loco goes across the crossover, it bounces enough to derail the following car. I have not added weight to any of the other cars, so I guess it just needed the extra weight on the coupler to the loco to stabilize it.
This store, while 25 miles away, is strictly R/R so they have a lot of goodies. An ATLAS 40000388 N Scale GP40 Diesel Locomotive (Western Pacific 3532) caught my eye, so that is currently running on my fig 8.
I was experiencing some slowdowns and so I tried my 70% isopropyl wipes, and they did a good job. I think I will break out my two HO sets and clean the tracks. If they work as well, then I will probably run those two large ovals around the fig 8. Hey, I paid for them, I might as well use them. 'Course that means some kind of table large enough to hold them. I guess it never ends ...