Bachmann, what in the h*** were you thinking making that 4-4-0, I was fine with the originall Mt. Gretna, but you have made one of the uglliest things I have ever seen, if you wanted to apeal to the south american market, start off a different branch!!!???. This nothing personall or towrds the company, but comon.
Regards
Dusten
Each to his or her own. I like the OF 4-4-0 and prefer it to the inside frame version. It should appeal to quite a few running inside frame versions who like the idea of a somewhat different loco as a comapnion and also to others including those modelling overseas prototypes, where small outside frame narrow gauge locos were common. It is close to a genuine 30 inch gauge loco which will appeal to some modellers.
I think the point is that with this model Bachmann is able to produce a distinctively different locomotive for relatively little expenditure as many of the parts will be the same as the existing 4-4-0. The cost of tooling a brand new model would be a lot more.
Hamish
I agree Dusten
it seems a curious choice to me ??? and IMHO, after the "new" has worn off the OF 4-4-0, the two 4-4-0s will simply cannibalize the sales of one another...
it seems there is no niche that one 4-4-0 would fill that the other wouldn't fill nearly as well...and at the same time there are dozens or more other locos that would have given On30 modelers choices of something they can't get now...
ah well, maybe someday Bachmann will make another loco I can use, but I'm not betting on it :'( :'( :'(
I'm going to throw out the thought that the OF 4-4-0 was intended for Bachmann's international market. They may have decided to market in the U.S. as an alternative to the original 4-4-0, one that is more modern in appearance. Speculation, but the world market grows ever smaller.
i agree with with Dusten.
i would rather see more models that come from north america then south america. instead of making the same kind of loco over just in a different way. i would rather see a verity of different locos.
I know you have those who want to model backwoods railroads with small locos that are made and use kitbashes
but there is also those who want to model main line narrow gauges lines like the DRGW WP&Y and ET&WNC and maybe like the SR&RL. I know those are not 30in gauge railroads but on30 allows an easier way to model those with out spending a S**T load of money on brass models.
I say if Bachmann can do engines like the newer 4-4-0 but switch off with other engines that are bigger like a WP&Y 2-8-2 or an ET&WNC 4-6-0, then they can do a small backwoods engine againfor those modelers and then another bigger engines and so on and so on.
'What were they thinking?' Dusten asks. I would say they were listening to a segment of their market. There was a lot of enthusiasm for these little outside frame Baldwin 4-4-0s when the discussion about an On30 4-4-0 got serious a few years ago. Are they everyone's cup of tea? No. No more than the Fn3 K-27 is everyone's cup of tea, or the On30 Forney, or the T Boiler Shay, or even the original 2-6-0. We have modelers, some in north America, many elsewhere who are modeling actual 76 cm or 30 inch gauge prototypes, not using it as an inexpensive way to model what would correctly be On2 or On3 north American prototypes. Many of those prototype 30 inch gauge modelers may be very happy to have this little 4-4-0. I suspect many of the free lance modelers may like it as well.
But when you think about it Bachmann has really done a rather impressive job of covering the waterfront with (dare I say it?) a broad spectrum of locomotives in their On30 line. Two foot gauge prototypes: Porter 0-4-0T, 4-4-0, Forney. Thirty inch gauge prototypes: Porter 0-4-0T, 0-4-2T, 2-8-0, and now the outside frame 4-4-0. Three foot gauge prototypes: Porter 0-4-0T, 0-4-2T, T Boiler Shay, 2 truck Climax, Rail Truck (RGS 1), 2-6-0.
No, the new outside frame 4-4-0 isn't my favorite prototype locomotive, but I hope it sells well for Bachmann, and I applaud them for listening to their customers. A lot of customers emphatically expressed a desire for a 30 inch gauge export loco rather than a 36 inch gauge 4-4-0 like E&P EUREKA. It will be interesting to see what's coming along - my guess is if the list of what's been offered is a guide, over the course of time, most of us find some of the prototypes we love show up in the familiar boxes.
Happy modeling and modifying.
Charlie Mutschler
-30-
I plan on buying one. I like it.
Bruce
Charlie and ebtnut
Thank you for an intelligent reply not full of *****.
A relief from those who constantly complain because they didn't get their wish.
eric
Dusten-
From a pure business standpoint, it makes sense to come out with this locomotive, as 90% of the tooling already exists from the IF 4-4-0. No, its not my cup of tea either, but I do applaud Bachmann for continuing to come out with some very unique and niche type locomotives.
Hang in there. Maybe next time around we'll get what we're looking for!
Matt
I found a set of drawings for this new loco, and printed them out to scale. My impression is that the new 4-4-0 is larger than the IF 4-4-0, and I doubt if any major components were shared. Looks like we will find out soon enough. To date, Bachmann has never taken the easy way out, and reused major components. Even though I think the results could be great.
I like the new loco, and I'm hoping that it "fits" visually in front of a line of boxcars better than the IF 4-4-0 did. From the drawings, I think it will. I've already picked out the version that will work best for me, and I need to check the box, to see if I have a crew ready.
And me with a birthday coming up... No tie this year!
The Manager
why is it some people seem to get so defensive if someone says they don't like a new Bachmann product?
if Bachmann doesn't have any interest in making more "common, standard, North American style, common carrier locos that is certainly their business, and if that is the direction they want to take their product line, so be it, but that certainty doesn't mean I have to happy about it :-\
and I might take a small exception to the statement that there is a broad spectrum of locomotives too...outside of the original 2-6-0, there isn't any any non-logging, non industrial "3'-ish" North American locos available from Bachamnn...
hello Everyone
I think it is time we said think you to Bachmann Industries for the excellent way the average modeller can now enter the narrow gauge model scene in a non expencive way. We will all want different types of motive power and rolling stock to suit our personal taistes, but for Bachmann to do that would be a huge undertaking and make the models very expencive.Being Australian anything remotely like the VR narrow gauge would be a plus ( puffing Billy ) but reality says no, and the products by Bachmann are excellent for kit bashing or just good as they are.
So my point is the overall way the choose the models is diven by economics and sale ,and they have covered almost everthing from small industrial th larger motive power.So who knows we may get a 4-6-0 , hiesler, garret or a mallet but it may just take time.
Lets enjoy the stuff we have and wait and see what other surprises the Mr Bachmann has in the bag or planning stage
A happy Modeller
Geoff
aussie30inch
Mike has a point about the Mogul being unique in the On30 line. I would add that the Mogul is also the only On30 steam loco with a plastic boiler and cab, and with a lower price. I would like to see more locos like the Mogul, smaller 36" gauge locos, more basic in their construction, better for bashing, suitable for use in train sets and collector editions, and able to handle 18" curves. A generic 4-6-0 would be ideal, and perhaps a Mason Bogie.
At the same time, they could continue with the 30" and 24" prototypes in metal, with the high level of detail.
Double edged sword , I am happy Bachmann has kept up in the 0n30 and not stopped production. I dont always agree with their choices of production and thats a fact. Being we have world wide markets in this day and age and the economy isn't so great here in the states they obviously look to the world market just to stay in the game.
I havent purchased a new loco since the Connie. Then I found out it was a Mexican prototype. Straight to the bench for conversion to American.
bash or trash...
Dunsten, that is the direction On30 is going in, if you don't like it just move along. That is what the participants want so get over it.
If you look at the prices of the 3 foot/30 inch OF baldwin mexican Consolidation at Micro-Mark it has dropped in price from the original offering. That is why everything is going "hinky".
Harold
Dear All,
I ignored this thread at first because of Dustin's rudeness, hoping that others would do the same.
Instead you guys just piled on with more rudeness. Shame on you.
Part of growing up is the ability to express your disapproval of things in a tactful manner, and learning how to use a spell checker.
You must have missed class on both of those days.
Bachmann and the Bach-Man are kind and generous enough (time & $$$) to provide you with a forum. Don't abuse them, don't abuse it.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Joe Satnik on July 15, 2008, 09:15:58 AM
Part of growing up is the ability to express your disapproval of things in a tactful manner, and learning how to use a spell checker.
You must have missed class on both of those days.
Probably attending the more important "Nice Guys Finish Last" seminar, the squeaky wheel is the only one that is greased.
Go Dunsten!!!!!!!!!
Harold
Well, I must lead a very sheltered life - I've read this thread through twice and apart from Dunsten's opening line ( which could have read heck! ), I see no signs of rudeness either to him or to Bachmann.
I am sorry if I was rude, I am just blown away with the choice of engine. What about the time when some of ya'll did not get the 4-4-0 ya'll were looking for? I do remember that there was not so much heat in the firebox for that loco either. I was talking to chatzie473 last night and he purposed an idea that in my opinion was really good. He told me that he would like to see Backwoods stock in the summer, adn main line stock in the fall, I think it is a good idea. And by the way, what is with the "N" in my name, not to sound rude, but I don't know if you are doing that on purpose or not, it is spelt "Dusten". Again, I am sorry if I was rude.
Dusten
Dusten,
Apology accepted.
I misspelled your name, apologies. I read too fast and know too many Dustins (with an "I").
I thought twice about mentioning spelling, because it puts my own spelling under a microscope.
Your enthusiasm is great, keep it up.
Harold,
Given the demeanor of your previous posts and excellent website, your latest reply was really a surprise.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on July 15, 2008, 11:26:49 AM
And by the way, what is with the "N" in my name, not to sound rude, but I don't know if you are doing that on purpose or not, it is spelt "Dusten".
Dusten, I apoligize for misspelling your name, being sensitive to misspelling having gone through my life as "Howard Minkowitz" instead of Harold Minkwitz.
Joe, what is wrong with forums is this attitude that we can't speak up about a product. I have left forums because I was told you can't criticize or have an opposing idea on "their" forums.
Harold
the new O/F 4-4-0 is much larger than the I/F model. i layed the connie on the drg in the gazette and it is virtualy the same size except for the tender which is shorter than the connie.
so i doubt wether any of the I/F parts are used
Quote from: ossygobbin on July 15, 2008, 02:02:29 PM
the new O/F 4-4-0 is much larger than the I/F model. i layed the connie on the drg in the gazette and it is virtualy the same size except for the tender which is shorter than the connie.
so i doubt wether any of the I/F parts are used
If you look at the two pictures the OF appears to be a derivative of the IF and not the plans in the gazette. They appear to be the same size with the same cab pushed further back on the frame on the OF. The front end, cab and tender are the same. The driver wheelbase looks the same also.
Harold
Looking at pictures and scaling both the I/F and O/F plans, the Mt Gretna is about five feet shorter than the O/F locomotive .
The pictures indicate that Bachmann was true to the prototype in driver spacing, frame length and pilot truck dimensions.
While the mechanisms are similar, they are different locomotives. The wheelbase is about 26 inches longer than the Mt Gretna alone. The boiler is much longer. As the Baldwin cabs are stock items for Baldwin, Lee can use the Mt. Gretna cab and still be on target.
I still want to see what Harold does to his.
I was curious about the size of the new 4-4-0, and someone was kind enough to post drawings of a prototype which looks identical to the new OF loco. The drawings had dimensions, so I printed them at exact 1:48 scale, and placed the IF 4-4-0 in front. Even with a little perspective distortion, which makes the loco in front look bigger, there is some difference in size. I also noticed that the new OF tender has straight sides, and sits higher on its trucks. The IF has a tender with flared sides, that sits very low on its trucks.
See what you think. If the link works.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/Gresham.Media/SH0J9GfWKnI/AAAAAAAAAJU/gTtaCmS6tKs/IF-OF_Comp2.jpg)
Quote
Joe, what is wrong with forums is this attitude that we can't speak up about a product. I have left forums because I was told you can't criticize or have an opposing idea on "their" forums.
Harold
Mink,
I have no objection to complaints. "Just do it without being rude" is all I can ask.
I've known the Bach-Man for a long time on the board, and met him at a WHG train show once. An extremely talented gentleman, friend to all, ambassador for the hobby, and a messenger with way too many bullet holes.
Why add to his stress by "Pushing the Envelope"?
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
harold, the boiler is totally different, the O/F is parallel
Tact is the word that might get you somewhere not rant.
How to pixx off a manufacture 101..
TOF
I guess ranting for all these years does pay off, Dusten!!!!! Remember the squeaky wheel does get greased.
Be RUDE
Harold
I am not generally rude, I am really polite most of the time, but in this case I was very rude, have I been rude through the years on the bachmann board? I am happy see the 4-6-0 I suggested around 3 or 4 years ago being made, I am sorry for the comments on the oustide frame 4-4-0, but it is ugly to me. All I can say is, bug the snot out of someone till it gets done. ;D
Sorry for all the trouble
Dusten
Dear Dusten,
No worries! The ten wheeler has been in the works for years- my only frustration was knowing and keeping the secret! Mr. Riley plans projects years in advance, so we can bring out new items year after year.
Remember, no matter what we announce, some folks will be happy, others not. The good news is lots of folks like the 4-4-0, and if you don't, you don't have to buy one! The challenge is keeping a mix that pleases lots of people, and, hopefully, we will.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Bachmann has made a lot of Tweetsie fans very, very happy!!!
Congratulations!
I'm one of 'em !!!!
Matt
Funny thing is, I've been Harold untold number of times, not Howard.... ::)
Another funny thing, I find any new on30 product a joy, considering we on30 modelers are a teeny, tiny part of the hobby....must be something about the glass being half full..... ;D
Anyway, I can hardly wait for 'em all....
Howard, not Harold, but an admirer of Harold's work!
i do not mind that bachmann is making the new 4-4-0 is just wanted to say as long as they make a little bit for everyone i am happy. yes i probably will not get the new 4-4-0 but i might get an engine other people do not like.
I know bachman is one of the few companies that i know have a forum like this so they can hear what people want them to come out with.
maybe a lot of this forum was because the engine just appeared out of nowhere with out anyone know much background knowledge of it. Maybe (and bachman does not have to do this but it can help from causing post like this to show up) it might be good to let people know a little about what is coming out before hand just so they know they are not just going to make one kind of loco. Let them know that at least this is in the works but this is going to come out before they come out with that.
If i ******* anyone off i did not mean it. I just wanted my thought to be said about the new locomotive.
Wow - You are one scary gent, Mr. Bach-man - the much loved prototype for the ET&WNC folks will be appearing in the familiar boxes sooner than even I anticipated! Well, the fact is that the Bachmann team is still doing well - something for just about everyone. I hope these also sell well. I would guess some of the WP&Y folks will be interested, although the pair of ex ET&WNC 4-6-0s were only in service briefly before being damaged in the Whitehorse, YT engine house fire. Again, free lancers should be very happy.
Charlie Mutschler
-30-
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Wheres Dusten,sure would like to see the look on his face. ;D ;D
Royce Wislson
I was highly dissapointed it was not going to in large scale, i'd stand in line for that one :'(
The look on my face was big, and bouncing off the walls :o ;D
Dusten,how many we gonna orde up front? this is history!
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Royce
Man that gonna be a purdy engine!!! 8)
Royce
I would like 4 for 10 11 12 14, and 3 more for #9 and for my custom RR B&S
i bet he would take all backmann would make if he could. lol
Na I wouldnt buy'em all, I need the money, I would rather go to Tweetsie and enjoy the real thing ;D
Thanks to The Bachmann and Mr Riley and the powers to be at Bachmann for the release of the railbus and the 4-6-0.Hey Dusten you got it man congratulations can't wait to see one painted in BR&W just don't run it in the river down thar in Harnett county.
Alan Ashworth
Haha ;D. I think the Black River is shallow enough for me to get her out if I do. Color on the engine's are going to be a gator kind of green with black roof top and boiler. She should look great.
I am glad I did not get the inside frame 4-4-0 because in my opion the OF one looks much better the railbus is also verry nice and so is the ten - wheeler but I think I will wate on that one and hope Bachmann comes out with a whale-back tender lettered in Southern Pacific cause if they do then I will haft to get all the road numbers. ;D