I see that y'all are selling this from the parts department -
(http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/bach262chassis2015.jpg)
Is that new (smaller) motor available in actual models now? Retailer-wise, no one seems to know anything about it.
Thanks,
-Mark
Yes it is.
Thanks, Yardmaster. Can you tell me on what date (approximately) the new models became available? My favorite etailer says he would need to know that in order to get me the correct version.
Cheers,
-Mark
The first two locomotives to feature this motor are item #51563 Canadian National 2-6-2 and item #50565 CNJ 0-6-0. They are currently shipping to dealers.
Our service department tells me that this chassis can be retrofitted into older locomotive shells without any problems. The motor will be used in other loco types moving forward.
What is the advantage of the new motor?
Well, for starters it doesn't stick out the back of the cab like the old motor did. Major good news there :-)
Cheers,
-Mark
Quote from: Yardmaster on August 04, 2015, 09:42:28 AM
The first two locomotives to feature this motor are item #51563 Canadian National 2-6-2 and item #50565 CNJ 0-6-0. They are currently shipping to dealers.
Thanks!
-Mark
Is it easier to convert to dcc?
It's hard to tell from that photo where the motor/chassis contacts are, but I'm guessing it isn't going to be any easier than the previous version. I'll know more when I actually get my hands on one.
Cheers,
-Mark
Has there been any changes to the cylinder detail?
No.
Glad to see this upgrade. Has B-mann upgraded the tender as well? Are the stock numbers listed new or old? I guess that in reality that would not be that important, as if the motor is sticking out of the back of the cab, it is the old one, if not, it is new.
I would find it difficult to understand the motor upgrade without the tender upgrade, but I could think or some explanation , I suppose. Again, this is not that big a deal, as the tender upgrade is not that difficult. For those of you unaware, Spookshow has been good enough to provide the how-to illustration on his website.
If this is the same motor as that on the 44-tonner and some other recent locomotives, it has excellent slow speed control on DC with decoder removed.
Still hoping for a Specrtum w/DCC type of upgrade to the switcher. Upgraded motor and tender are ALMOST there. Why not just do it, now?
The upgraded motor is a huge welcome from me, I am glad Bachmann is stepping in this direction
I acquired one to-day. The two different that I saw were actually "2-6-2"s, but, as everyone knows, the B-mann "prairie" is really a USRA 0-6-0 with idler trucks added.
The paint job seems to be a step up.
Sadly, Bachpersonn did not upgrade the tender. It is the same tender as the old model with the one live truck whose design tends to put drag on the locomotive. Thus, when I got it home, I swapped out the stock tender for a SPECTRUM slopeback that I had altered in the manner that Spookshow demonstrates on his website.
When I bought the thing and put it onto the test track, it seemed to have a minor hitch in its getalong in forward, but it ran allright in reverse. I expected that the hitch would come out with some break-in time.
I got it home, did the tender swap and put it onto the track. I ran it five times around in each direction at about sixty SMPH, which is far too fast for the prototype, but this is run-in. I then slowed it to about forty SMPH, still, fast for the prototype, but I ran it at that speed anyhow for five more laps in each direction. At that point, I decided to do a preliminary creep test. As I had suspected, the hitch in the getalong did come out with break-in. For something not yet broken-in, this is a good creeper. I intend to spend a little more time running it in, but my preliminary impressions of it are pretty good.
One thing that I did notice is that mine, at least, was bone dry from the factory. This is a departure for Bachmann, as the factory in China usually overgreases, but it appears that it did not lubricate at all, this time. That was no big deal, I added a VERY small dab of LaBelle teflon grease, which seemed to help.
So far, I can recommend this one, but do buy a SPECTRUM tender and do the upgrade. The slopeback is not correct for the USRA 0-6-0, but B-mann does sell a SPECTRUM USRA switcher tender. Be sure to check Spookshow's website for instructions on altering the SPECTRUM tender.
EDITORIAL NOTE: It is running in well. I have it down to breaking in at fifteen SMPH and it is holding the speed well. It runs smoothly in both directions. I did a pulling power test. It was not my usual loaded MT gondolas test, it was an eleven car hopper train with coal loads. It was the train that was already on the track, so I used it. I disconnected the locomotives and caboose, substituted the B-mann 0-6-0 and an MT wood caboose. The hoppers were MT, Atlas and Bowser. The Atlas and Bowser had the maufacturer's loads, the MTs had either real coal glued to wood or plaster loads. The locomotive pulled the entire train and showed no signs of slipping. The track is mostly level. The curves are seventeen and nineteen inch, the turnouts are Atlas, Kato and B-mann. The track is Atlas SNAP-TRAK, B-mann EZ-TRAK and Atlas flex.
The pulling power is a marked improvement. The last issue, with the split frame and a tender swap would pull eight boxcars of various manufacture and a caboose on the same level track. This gives credence to a theory advanced by others, and to which I subscribe, that balance has as much to do with pulling power as weighting and traction tyres. The new motor has altered the balance and weight distribution.
You are almost there with this one, Bachmann. Upgrade the tender and you have a real winner.
A note on appearance that I discovered rather late: As I saw that the tender still had the old current collection front truck on it, I did not pay too much attention to it, at first. I was going to do a swap-out, anyhow, so I did not give it much thought until I put the modified locomotive onto the track. As the locomotive was running-in, I did look at the tender. The CN herald on the side of mine is rather well done; an improvement over previous issues. I did notice that the silver on the reflector plate of the back-up light was applied in a sloppy manner. It is nothing that a fine tipped paint brush some black paint and a magnifying lamp could not correct (or a Q-tip and some alcohol, sanding stick or some such tool to remedy), but it is there and the QC department might want to take a look at it. Other than that, the paint and lettering seems to be a marked improvement over previous issues of this one.
One more thought on the tender. Due to the direction of forces and the positioning of the drawbar, at times the tender will pick switch points/frogs or derail on mediocre trackwork while the locomotive is running tender-first. I suspect that a little weight to the tender will correct the tracking problems, likely at the expense of a car or two pulling power, but if this thing will pull nine or ten loaded hoppers and a tender full of tungsten putty, I, at least, will be satisfied. So, it is off the hardware store to buy some tungsten putty.
Not sure if Bachmann might have modified the frame with this "new" motor version.
QuoteI swapped out the stock tender for a SPECTRUM slopeback that I had altered in the manner that Spookshow demonstrates on his website.
Can you see what has changed on the new lokie chassis that required surgery to adapt the
Spectrum slope back tender?
The
slope back Spectrum tender does not require grinding nor flipping the draw bar over on the
previous version 0-6-0. It requires no modification at all (rear coupler excluded), however, I did add ⅛ oz. lead and installed a 2004 coupler.
Was at my LHS today and there was a stack of Bachmann 0-6-0 switchers, new in their boxes. Both the old and new models. (New were going for just $5 more than the old version.) The two obvious markers for the new model were (1) the motor is flush with the back of the cab except for the thickness of a small black plastic ring on the back of the motor, and (2) it comes equipped with magnetic couplers. (Always wondered why a SWITCHER came with dummy couplers!)
These models have undergone quite a variety of changes over the past couple-three years. To wit -
- The couplers were upgraded to EZ-Mates
- The shell detailing was considerably improved
- The motor was upgraded (and the shell was upgraded yet again)
And that's just recently! Based on my research, there have been numerous upgrades and improvements to these models over the years (dating all the way back to the 1980's).
Not trying to be snarky here, but Mr Yardmaster, why is it that Bachmann is so coy when it comes to revealing improvements? If you're going to expend the effort to improve your models, I would think that trumpeting said changes would be, um, advantageous? ;D
Cheers,
-Mark
I am aware that many have stated that no surgery was required to the slopeback, only to the USRA switcher tender. Despite that, I found that the penultimate version performed better when I inverted the drawbar made a similar modification to the slopeback. For this reason, I made the same modification to a couple of the slopebacks. I did this with the intention of purchasing more of these and swapping out the old tender. I never did purchase any more of the penultimate version. Thus, when I took home the newest version, I had a tender ready for it. So far, it seems that I did well in not purchasing the penultimate upgrade, as the most recent upgrade is even better.
The newest version is still running-in. It performs better as time goes on. I should be placing it into service shortly. That will be the ultimate test.
One oddity I've noticed with these split-frame 0-6-0's and 2-6-2's are the wheelwipers on the rear driverset. Since track current flows from the axles directly into the chassis, said wipers would seem (to me anyway) to be completely redundant. Anyone have theories as to what purpose they might serve?
Thanks,
-Mark
The motors on the 0-6-0 and 2-6-2 are insulated from the frames with a piece of plastic. The wipers coming from the rear driver wheels touch directly to the brush caps.
I do not own the new smaller motor version and don't know if this holds true on that version.
Redundant... maybe... if there were other direct contact to the motor brushes via the frame halves, but as you already know, there is not.
I'm not sure there is anything redundant about power pick-up on n scale steam, it seems the more redundancy, the better they run without stalling.
A good example, adding a Spectrum tender to said models. Its absolute redundancy, but how sweet they run when converted.
There is much inconsistency in adequate power pick-up when the drivers alone are the only source of pick-up, sometimes lead and trailing trucks still don't offer flawless pick-up and are not enough.
I wish the Spectrum tenders would replace the standard ones on all Bachmann lokies.
They are also easily adapted to other manufacturers' equipment and make an equal marked improvement.
I'm still buying slope back, short, and medium for less than $10 on eBay, the long is getting harder to find at those prices and the Vandy will cost you easy twice or three times that if you can find them.
I just finished adding Spectrum tenders to both my 0-6-0 and 2-6-2 (slope back and short).
Next up is adding either a long or a Vandy to the 4-8-4, either that or modifying the regular 16 wheeler to all wheels live.
A project long overdue.
I have not ruled out the unit from Richmond Controls and have not researched the prototypes enough to figure out a course of action at this time.
I have 11 GP9's that I need to paint and decal ahead of this project on the priority list.
Quote from: James in FL on August 14, 2015, 10:34:07 PM
A good example, adding a Spectrum tender to said models. Its absolute redundancy, but how sweet they run when converted.
I wish the Spectrum tenders would replace the standard ones on all Bachmann lokies.
If there is
any "redundancy" in adding the
SPECTRUM tender to a B-mann steam locomotive, it would be the additional electrical contact that it provides. When considering
any N scale locomotive, particullarly an N scale steam locomotive, you can never have "too much" electrical contact.
When considering N scale steam, it is important to keep in the forefront Miranda's Maxim as explained by ke: "The poor performance of many N scale steam locomotives is almost always directly attributable to poor electrical contact".
If you will consider the Kato 2-8-2, the first run did suffer from a poorly designed current collection method on the drivers. Kato re-designed this for subsequent runs. Further, more than one person has discovered that adding a bit of weight to the tender has cut stalling markedly on this locomotive.
The Model Power 2-6-0 is another one. The presence of the traction tyre on the locomotive eliminates most of the electrical contact there. The tender is only half wheels live. Thus, if you operate that locomotive at anything less than thirty SMPH, it is prone to stalling, even on straight-and-level. Swap out the stock tender for any
SPECTRUM tender, or, the Kato USRA standard tender, and you eliminate the stalling problem. I have two that I have so modified. They will pull fifteen loaded Micro-Trains gondolas and a Micro-Trains wood caboose up a one per cent grade at fifteen SMPH and show no signs of slipping. I wonder if the prototype would have done that.
The other problem with the B-mann tender that comes with this one is that the design of the one live truck, the front truck, is such that it creates a tremendous amount of drag on the locomotive, as the wheels will not spin freely. The needlepoint axle pick-up on the
SPECTRUM (or Kato) tender eliminates most of this drag. On the older issue, doing the swap-out doubles the pulling power. This one will pull more: eleven loaded hoppers, of various manufacture, and, a MT wood caboose on straight and level or level, broad curves.
Quote from: James in FL on August 14, 2015, 10:34:07 PM
The motors on the 0-6-0 and 2-6-2 are insulated from the frames with a piece of plastic. The wipers coming from the rear driver wheels touch directly to the brush caps. I do not own the new smaller motor version and don't know if this holds true on that version.
Curiosity got the best of me, so I decided to pull the motor and see just what's going on with the chassis contacts. And as you can see, there are contacts on the front face of the motor, each of which touch one of the frame halves directly -
(http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/bach262motor.jpg)
So, maybe I'm missing something, but those old wheelwiper contacts do seem to be redundant if all they're doing is getting current from the rear drivers to the chassis (since current already flows from the rear axle sleeves directly into the chassis).
Cheers,
-Mark
Thanks for popping that motor out and giving us a look see at it.
Somewhat odd design (contacts placement) compared to the old conventional style.
Only one way to find out if they (wheelback wipers)are adding any pick-up value, and that's to take them off and see.
Are they still held on with a small Phillips head? Or has that changed as well?
Yes, they're exactly like the old ones - small screws, etc. The only difference now is that they don't do anything other than transfer current from the drivers to the chassis.
Even if redundant, they don't really hurt anything. Although I guess you could say they are the last little bit of distracting ugliness on these models -
(http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/bach262.jpg)
If I actually wanted to run one of these on my layout, I'd probably try removing them and see if it made any difference in the performance.
Cheers,
-Mark
In an N scale steam locomotive, especially a small N scale steam locomotive, I will take all redundant electrical contact.
I did notice that the wipers on mine are not brass colored, as were the old ones, rather they are made of a silver-colored metal of some sort.
I did not attempt to run mine with the stock tender, except on the test track at the show where I bought it. When I got the thing home, I did a swap out for a SPECTRUM tender immediately. I used a slopeback, even though I have been informed that no USRA 0-6-0, be it original or copy, ever had a slopeback. As mine is going to run on a non-historic railroad, I can get away with it. I do plan to buy at leat one more and add a SPECTRUM USRA switcher tender lettered for the Baltimore and Ohio. It will not look as nice as does skipgear's B&O USRA 0-6-0, but it will look allright for my purposes.
Hey Mark,
If you still have it out, could you provide some dimension of the new motor? Length of case, as well as length w/ worm, height and width.
Cheers.
Approximately 14 mm long (22 mm with the driveshaft and worm), 10 mm wide, and 12 mm tall.
Cheers,
-Mark