Good morning Gent's,
Again another newbie question! Is there any web site or information site on what degree of curve track is needed for a again area or layout? My wife and I are building a double oval track for a Christmas display and would like to use the 30 degree Bachmann crossing between ovals to connect them together, (not a figure 8 layout) now I need to install 1 curve track on each outlet of crossing to get my track to run parallel/straight again. I have tried 18" radius curve track, turn to much, then tried a 22" radius curve and still to great of a curve, now I hate to just keep ordering different radius till I find the correct outcome, there must be a better way! I asked my local hobby shop and got a very generic answer, keep coming back and buying more different curves until you find what works! really in todays information age this is the answer from a hobby store, guess he likes to sell products! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dan.
Dear Dan,
Download and use AnyRail.com track CAD software. Free for the first 50 track pieces.
Fun and easy to learn.
You should be able to find a combination that works.
Try 18"R half-curves (15 degrees each).
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
a 22r section is a 22.5 degree arc, a half section is an 11.25 degree arc. neither of those will work with a 30 degree crossing. as joe said, splitting the difference of 30 degrees gives you 15 degrees, or a half 18r section on each leg.
Fun with AnyRail:
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/joebarb/folded8_zpsf5b767b4.jpg)
HO N/S EZ-Track 18"R-22"R Folded Figure-8
(Twice Around?)
Small stuff:
*2 ea. 1.25" straights
*2 ea. 1.5" straights
4 ea. 18"R - 15 degree (half) curves
4 ea. 4.5" (half) straights.
The rest 18"R curves, 22"R curves, 9" straights and 30 degree crossing.
Note: A 36" straight is used in this drawing as a sub for four 9" straights.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Edit: *
*Note: With no ill effect, a 3" straight could be substituted for 1.25" + 1.5" on each loop.
(AnyRail target length = 2.84")
Thanks Joe,
Your advise has been greatly appreciated and that web site is assume! Thanks Again. I wish there were more folks like you in my neighborhood, folks like you make this a great hobby to be part of.
Hey, Dan.
Thanks for the kind words.
Actually, we both live in a pretty big neighborhood;
the entire English speaking world that's connected to the internet.
If you understand the geometry and trigonometry of track laying,
you can accomplish a layout design without a CAD program,
(e.g., John Armstrong since the 1950's).
The difference these days is that CAD programs do all that (math) for you visually.
I've given suggestions to the program owner Dave H.,
and he's actually put some of them in on his updates !
Imagine that ! A few of my ideas are floating around in that awesome software...
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
I just pulled out my HO sets after about 5 years. I again set them up as dual ovals with piers for the "outside" oval. I was playing with AnyRail to see if I could make a figure 8 with 30 deg crossover for the "inner" oval with 18" curves. It seemed kind of "iffy" and then I saw Joe's folded figure 8 (that search engine is great). I think I will start there.
My outside oval wraps around the inner oval, both using 18" curved tracks. Is it possible to continue using the 18" rather that the 22" curves for the folded figure 8.
Here's a basic figure-8 using a 30deg crossing and 18" radius curves. That's a 1.5" straight between two 15deg (1/2 section) 18" radius curves on the far left and right of the loops.
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/Pickanotherid/EZ-Track/EZ_30deg_Fig-8_zpssw6j4xk1.jpg)
Len
Thanks, Len. I just came back to this thread after finding this info in your reply in the "ez track problem." This info and Joe's folded fig 8 have given me a lot to think about. That is, I would like to combine the two. The outer oval becoming a folded fig 8, and the inner oval becoming the fig 8.
Doug,
I think I know what you want to accomplish.
It uses two 30 degree crossings, 90 degrees from each other.
In AnyRail, it looks like it will just squeak onto a 4 x 8 sheet.
Joe
Putting the folded fig-8 and basic fig-8 on one 4x8 works if you either cut down the outter 30deg crossing, or use an Atlas Custom Line 30deg crossing in the outter double loop.
Using an EZ-Track 30deg crossing in the folded fig-8 either doesn't leave room for the basic fig-8, or pushes the outter loop off the board to make room for it. Using a 30deg crossing with shorter legs lets it work, barely:
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/Pickanotherid/EZ-Track/EZ_Dbl_30deg_Fig-8_zpsmirk8pzu.jpg)
I use RR-Track for the diagrams.
Len
Nice job, Len.
I thought Doug might have been thinking about a 1 controller layout, not 2.
I had the top 18"R-30 degree track on the right lobe of your inner figure-8 replaced with a 30 degree crossing.
The other 2 legs of that crossing were connected to a single 22"R outside oval, using fitters as needed.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Doug,
You asked: "Is it possible to continue using the 18" rather than the 22" curves"
Yes, if you have a little extra room to the outside for the "Out of Round".
Half-Straight expansion lesson: (Previously posted.)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/joebarb/CircleGeomLesson_zps94f73ecf.jpg)
Your case of 22"R and 18"R calls for a 4" half-straight x 2 (=8") straight, however,
a 9" straight will work but cause a tight fit along the fence on the long edge.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe,
Did you mean something like this?
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/Pickanotherid/EZ-Track/EZ_Trpl_30deg_Fig-8_zpstpoxusjb.jpg)
To bring it in from the ends a bit, it would probably be better to replace a 9" straight in each loop at top and bottom to the left of the Atlas 30deg crossing with something a bit shorter.
I didn't worry about center-to-center spacing too much, since only one train would be running at a time. And there was no way around the small 'S' near the Atlas crossing without going over the edge. With that much track, power feeders will be an issue though.
Len
Joe and Len, great stuff!
I was thinking of using both one or two controllers, so you both nailed it for me. Both are interesting and I will probably do this for the N scale as well.
I currently rebuilt my setup as two ovals with a trestle. The outer oval has additional 9" straights at the ends of the oval to make it work around the inner oval. This is what it looked like at my last apartment before I put it away:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51625787@N00/16490381228/in/photostream/lightbox/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51625787@N00/16490381228/in/photostream/lightbox/)
I ordered the additional track for the 30 degree crossing, yesterday, so I should be able to get started on the figure 8 next week, and then move on the the versions of the folded figure 8.
Thanks!
I have been experimenting with the trial version of AnyRail and was looking at the folded fig 8 with the dual ovals feeding the inner fig 8, in "N scale". I have an area next to my desk that is about 7' x 5'3". I was thinking about making an "L" shape layout.
Also, what are the issues with: "With that much track, power feeders will be an issue though."
I am not able to attach files here, so I put my plan on Flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51625787@N00/16092590823/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51625787@N00/16092590823/)
Doug,
The more your track on your layout requires more feeders. If you get a meter and put it test the track that your power pack is hooked to you should show the max voltage supplied to your track, as you move the meter away from that connection you will notice the voltage drop the further you move away. When this occurs your loco will not be able to move as fast or at all because it is not receiving enough voltage to power the decoder/motor.
Most use feeders spacing them about 3 ft. apart. Seems like a lot but in order to keep the loco's moving flawlessly you will need good power all the way around the track and clean rails,
Jerry
Doug,
Great job learning to use AnyRail.
I wonder if the " @ " symbol in the photo link might be causing the problem.
Anyone else have experience with Flicker?
I have no problems with Photobucket. Add img tags and away you go.
You may have noticed that N Scale has fewer track choices than HO.
N Scale's (proportionately) shorter 30 degree crossings allow for more compact layout designs,
but then you have to figure out the lengths of the 4 straight legs...
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Edit: Added Bold
Flickr is not a good choice as image host if you what to display image on this board.
Using
[img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae_s.jpg[/img]
Will display
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae_s.jpg)
I searched this site, and goggled "power feeder" but I was not able to find anything related to EZ-Track, which I plan to use. If there is a way to use EZ-Track for additional power feeds, does the power come from the same controller?
I had tried using the "Attach: Browse" option in the reply dialog to load an image from my PC, but that doesn't work, so I will try using the suggested "img" tags. Sorry for the stumbling around.
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/51625787@N00/16092590823/)
Doug,
For awhile I was buying Atlas terminal rail joiners but realized I knew how to solder so I started soldering my feeders to the side of the rails and in some instances I made my own terminal rail joiners by soldering my wire to the joiners (Bachmann joiners) and replacing the joiners. I do this every 3 feet and drop the wires down to my buss.
Yes the power comes from the controller. I am sure you are using the terminal track to plug in your controller with EZ track so all you have to do is run your buss under the table and cut the wire to the track and attach it to your buss then the other end to the track will be just another feeder wire. So attach all your feeders to the buss and your off and running.
Here's a video of what I am talking about to help...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPHHZ9rmIZ0
Jerry
To add power feeders with EZ-Track the basic options are:
1. Purchase Terminal/Rerailer tracks to install around the layout for additional power connections. (Most expensive option)
2. Replace standard rail joiners with terminal rail joiners that have wires already soldered to them to make power connections.
3. Solder your own wire directly to the rail or existing rail joiners to add power connections.
Len
Thanks for the good information and the link to YouTube, it all helped a lot.
The info on the static URL sent me "goggling" and I found a Flickr thread, with a lot of unhappy (whew!) folks. But I think I may have found the correct HTML URL. (Wow, it even works in preview, and I can select the size of the image on Flickr.)
[Apology's to the moderator, but this was the only way that I could think of testing this link: it works in the address of a browser, but I wasn't certain if it work here.]
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae.jpg)
Comfortable (human) reach is 24", 30" is stretching it.
Long grabbers or pop-up hatches needed for further away.
Hope this helps.
Joe
Quote from: Hunt on March 04, 2015, 11:24:34 AM
Flickr is not a good choice as image host if you what want to display image on this board.
Using
[img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae_s.jpg[/img]
Will display
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae_s.jpg)
Sorry DougInCal
I just read my first post and see not all of my reply was posted. However you learned something.
Following is what was left off.
[img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae.jpg width=500 height=377[/img]
Displays
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8647/16092590823_4a50441bae.jpg%20width=500%20height=377)
I received my HO track: the 30 deg crossing, assorted small tracks, etc. It is a good thing that I bought that assorted tracks because I used all but a couple of them.
I created the folded fig 8 and it ended up being just short of 4' wide and about 7' long.
I had uncoupling problems with the 30 deg crossing, and had to add weights to the cars. Like my N scale 30 deg crossing it seems to be between the loco and the following car. The HO scale has settled down with my GP loco, but the F7 is still problematic.
Time to move on to my N scale layout.
I put an oval into the HO folded fig 8, using two power supplies, and will change it to a figure 8.
Next, I would like to try the plan that Len described: feeding the figure 8 from the oval. He mentioned that there might be power issues. Would it work to power two terminal rerailers from the same power supply? That is, attach both leads to the power supply and go to the individual rerailers. I am assuming that polarity would be an issue and would have to be checked first (?).
Power supply is Railpower 1300: Output 7 VA, Electronic circuitry, Master on-off switch, 300 degree speed control throttle, Automatic circuit protector, UL Listed.
You can, just as long as you maintain the same polarity to each rerailer. That can be the tricky part if you have no way of marking your wires or checking with a meter or continuity tester.