Although I'd enjoy a N&W one just as much, I think this locomotive:
http://www.yackalot.net/dolzall/02-29-Mitchell002.jpg (http://www.yackalot.net/dolzall/02-29-Mitchell002.jpg)
would go very well with other Bachmann locomotives, like the 2-8-0 and 2-10-0.
How about it Bachman?
Nice but sadly way too rare. There were very few 4-8-0s built anywhere in the world.
What all railroads (in the U.S. & Canada) had a 4-8-0 besides the N&W class M?
More than you think.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mastodon/ (http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mastodon/)
I know a LOT of peope that would buy one or more likely several, myself included.
Suprisingly the twelve wheelers of the Great Northern were not mentioned ,they had 5 Class's of them G1 thru G5.
When built in 1892 the GN. G1 was concidered the most powerful locomotive in the world though that title did not last very long.
And although a GN. fan I to would love to see either Bachmann or BLI produce a really nice N&W M class twelve wheeler with DCC and sound.
Below is GN. twelve wheeler 748 a G3 which I had the good fortune to be able to find in a brass import
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/lkemling/GN7482nd.jpg)
I would love an N&W M. You would think it would be a no brain-er since there is still one running today in excursion service at Strasburg. Whoever produced them could letter them for N&W and Strasburg. I've also been told that the N&W leased some Mollies out to other roads. I'm really hoping for Bachmann to do it. But I and others of the NWHS have been inquiring at BLI and they seem pretty open to the project. We'll have to wait and see.
fingers and toes crossed,
Brad
Quote from: GN.2-6-8-0 on January 15, 2010, 08:37:55 AM
Suprisingly the twelve wheelers of the Great Northern were not mentioned ,they had 5 Class's of them G1 thru G5.
When built in 1892 the GN. G1 was concidered the most powerful locomotive in the world though that title did not last very long.
And although a GN. fan I to would love to see either Bachmann or BLI produce a really nice N&W M class twelve wheeler with DCC and sound.
Below is GN. twelve wheeler 748 a G3 which I had the good fortune to be able to find in a brass import
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/lkemling/GN7482nd.jpg)
Great Northern is mentioned. See Montana Central. A detailed list of all of the M class 4-8-0's are described.
So it is.so it is.....how'd i miss that! ;D matter of fact I was lucky enough to find one of the PFM G3s a number of years ago and one of these days hope to install DCC and sound in it.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/lkemling/GNG3No744-1.jpg)
Quote from: rogertra on January 15, 2010, 01:02:54 AM
Nice but sadly way too rare. There were very few 4-8-0s built anywhere in the world.
Unfortunately, this is a common misconception.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mastodon/
You are not alone in thinking they were rare. Wonder why they are so overlooked?
Quote from: Pacific Northern on January 15, 2010, 05:48:58 PM
You are not alone in thinking they were rare. Wonder why they are so overlooked?
Personally, I do not like the looks of the 4-8-0, maybe others share the same view.
I myself like the looks of the 4-8-0's. As my layout includes Great Northern trackage in the days of steam I would buy a few of these if they were offered.
In one of my reference books, "Steam along the Boundary" there are a number of pictures of the GN 4-8-0's.
The only larger engine being run shortly after the 4-8-0's came on scene was the 2-6-6-2. Now that is an engine I would not pass up should it be available at a reasonable price in plastic or diecast.
Quote from: ABC on January 15, 2010, 05:55:29 PM
Quote from: Pacific Northern on January 15, 2010, 05:48:58 PM
You are not alone in thinking they were rare. Wonder why they are so overlooked?
Personally, I do not like the looks of the 4-8-0, maybe others share the same view.
Who said THAT!!!!! ;)
Although, I'm not a fan of the N&W class M, I have 2 Bachmann Class Js w/ DCC, in my defense for those N&W fans, but I've got no GN locos.
Also, I have a N&W FM H16-44 and an N scale GP50.
If Bachmann were to produce the N&W M class, you can count me in for two of them.
Southern Pacific was also a big user of 4-8-0 steam locomotives. In fact several years ago, there was an article written by Tom Dressler on converting an O scale brass SP TW into a N&W M. It was not a major conversion.
If you check out QSI's website, you will find that they were in Strasburg a few months ago recording 475.
http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/recording-trip-111809.html (http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/recording-trip-111809.html)
The 4-8-0 was still a "rare" bird, no matter that a few roads rotered them, usually in small lots.
Quote from: rogertra on January 17, 2010, 10:23:28 PM
The 4-8-0 was still a "rare" bird, no matter that a few roads rotered them, usually in small lots.
Did you check out the information on the link?
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mastodon/
Not so rare a bird
Quote from: Pacific Northern on January 17, 2010, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: rogertra on January 17, 2010, 10:23:28 PM
The 4-8-0 was still a "rare" bird, no matter that a few roads rotered them, usually in small lots.
Did you check out the information on the link?
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mastodon/
Not so rare a bird
Yes, I checked the link and that doesn't change the fact that it's still a rare bird. Even one of the listing within the link says that the 4-8-0 was rare. :)
Just how rare, lets see.
The NMRA steam locomotive data sheet D9a.1 says that about 600 4-8-0's were built between 1870 and 1933 in North America.
As compared with 33,000 2-8-0's, 25,000 4-4-0's, 17,000 4-6-0's, 14,000 2-8-2's, 4,100 2-10-0's and about 6,800 4-6-2's
But lets compare it to some others:
There were only about 1,000 4-8-4's, 500 4-6-4's, 60 4-10-2's, 25 4-8-8-4's, 200 4-6-6-4's, 70 2-6-6-6's, etc, etc.
So yes they were rare, but that it not the single critera for deciding if a model should be made of them.
There are models of all those other "rare" locos I listed. Most way more rare than a 4-8-0.
Sheldon
Sheldon.
Thanks for the stats showing how rare they were. :)
Just pulling your chain.
BTW, there were 1,126 4-8-4s, the largest fleet of them, 126 I think, owned by Canadian National Railways.
Quote from: rogertra on January 18, 2010, 03:14:12 PM
Sheldon.
Thanks for the stats showing how rare they were. :)
Just pulling your chain.
BTW, there were 1,126 4-8-4s, the largest fleet of them, 126 I think, owned by Canadian National Railways.
CN had 160 of these engines in total. By far the largest fleet.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/
Quote from: Pacific Northern on January 18, 2010, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: rogertra on January 18, 2010, 03:14:12 PM
Sheldon.
Thanks for the stats showing how rare they were. :)
Just pulling your chain.
BTW, there were 1,126 4-8-4s, the largest fleet of them, 126 I think, owned by Canadian National Railways.
CN had 160 of these engines in total. By far the largest fleet.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/
Thanks for the correction, I mis-read the same data. DOH!
Roger, that's OK. I agree they are rare, so are Union Pacific Big Boys, but models of those things are like belly buttons, well almost. I have a belly button but I don't have a Big Boy.
Sheldon
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 18, 2010, 10:41:27 PM
Roger, that's OK. I agree they are rare, so are Union Pacific Big Boys, but models of those things are like belly buttons, well almost. I have a belly button but I don't have a Big Boy.
Sheldon
I agree with the articulateds. Far too many models available but, as you say, they are really popular, though not with me. :)
Largest engines I currently have are three President's Choice (IHC) 2-10-2s representing two classes. They are 2-10-2s at the moment but there seems to be an awful lot of space under the cab between the trailing truck and the tender so they may become 2-10-4s.
Quote from: Atlantic Central on January 18, 2010, 10:41:27 PM
Roger, that's OK. I agree they are rare, so are Union Pacific Big Boys, but models of those things are like belly buttons, well almost.
You mean, everybody has one (except Barbara Eden on
I Dream of Jeannie)? ;) :D
QuoteI have a belly button but I don't have a Big Boy.
Sheldon
Me neither--nothing larger than a Hudson and a big "Mike" on my "roster." :)
ya a N&W 4-8-0 would be great. Especially the larger M-2c with the longer 6 axle tender and the baker valve gear. I think a great locomotive that NO one has done in plastic would be a USRA heavy 4-6-2... then I could make a Southern Ps-4 from it! Or someone like Broadway could just make a accurate Ps-4 with hodges trailing truck, baker valve gear, 14K tender. Would be Great!!!
But honestly everyone has heard of the big boy even though there were only I believe 25 or so. But its simply that they think that the 4-8-0 would not be as popular. So they could not sell as many of them.
If they really want a seller, where's the 2-6-0? If ever there was a useful and potentially big seller it's a well made, good running, 2-6-0.
Two versions, slide valves and piston valves please.
Another approach for rarity would be to look at the steam locomotives that ran in North America in recently, or are likely to run.
Articulated: I am aware of two: UP's 3985 and Black Hills Central 110
http://www.1880train.com/locomotive110.html (http://www.1880train.com/locomotive110.html)
The Strasburg Rail Road #475 (ex N&W 475) is a 4-8-0 running.
Milw 261 is heading back to the museum, leaving UP 844 and AT&SF 3751 as the last two 4-8-4's on the rails.
Thus the operating 4-8-0 is more common than most wheel arrangements that once roamed North America.
Quote from: nickco201 on January 19, 2010, 04:06:44 PM
.....think a great locomotive that NO one has done in plastic would be a USRA heavy 4-6-2... then I could make a Southern Ps-4 from it! Or someone like Broadway could just make a accurate Ps-4 .......
Rivarossi offered one for many years (decades). Converting a USRA Heavy 4-6-2 to a SR Ps-4 is nontrivial; driver diameter (80" to 70") and driver spacing are biggies. If you are serious about trying to make one, a USRA Heavy Mike boiler on a USRA Light Pacific (or similar) chassis is a starting point - I'd use a Cary boiler on a Bowser NYC K11 chassis, or one of the plastic boilers on a Mehano chassis.
Quote from: Nigel on January 19, 2010, 04:14:19 PM
Milw 261 is heading back to the museum, leaving UP 844 and AT&SF 3751 as the last two 4-8-4's on the rails.
what about SP 4449 and SP&S 700?
Anything non-articulated seems to be in demand. I think Spectrum has the right idea with the 4-4-0 and 4-6-0. How about a nice Spectrum 2-6-0 Mogul? But I would certainly buy a Mastadon if one was made. Ok, 'nuff said.
Quote from: FECfan on January 19, 2010, 06:20:53 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 19, 2010, 04:14:19 PM
Milw 261 is heading back to the museum, leaving UP 844 and AT&SF 3751 as the last two 4-8-4's on the rails.
what about SP 4449 and SP&S 700?
oooppppssss.........
I think there are two or three more 4-8-4s There is one or two ex Reading. Ohio centralh as one if not two.
RAM- You are correct. Ohio Central has a 4-8-4 (ex GTW). BUT...since Ohio Central has been sold the condition/location of its steam locomotives is unknown (At least to me...Maybe someone else has insight). It is safe to say it hasn't been run for a couple of years.
-Brad
OK, here is an idea for a FREELANCED 4-8-0.
Take a Spectrum 2-10-0, remove the front driver set, replace the pilot truck with a 4 wheel one, possibly from a Spectrum 4-6-0.
If I had a use for 4-8-0 on my railroad, I might consider trying this.
Sheldon
Quote from: rogertra on January 19, 2010, 04:08:53 PM
If they really want a seller, where's the 2-6-0? If ever there was a useful and potentially big seller it's a well made, good running, 2-6-0.
Two versions, slide valves and piston valves please.
Agreed!
Maybe a few detail variations as well, such as with the Richmond 4-4-0.
People, people, this is a 4-8-0 topic, please start your own topic for 2-6-0 and other models.
That said, there are currently five N&W 4-8-0 locomotive known to exist, only 475 is currently operatable, and likely to remain the only one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N&W_%22M%22_Series_4-8-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N&W_%22M%22_Series_4-8-0)
With three finally escaping from the Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal yard to museums last summer. They need a little bit of work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NygQpfwq88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NygQpfwq88)
Here she be at Strasberg
(http://bandb3536.com/480.jpg)
And 2 more
(http://bandb3536.com/str480.JPG)
(http://bandb3536.com/str480b.JPG)
Beautiful! Just gorgeous.
Hmm. Strasburg relocated the headlight slightly between the first photo and the second two.
First pic was this summer
Other 2 were several years ago
I thought they had one stored at the Ill. RR museum.
Just checked my records
First one was July 10th 2009
Bottom 2 were in 1999
ahhhhh, a conni on steroids ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Having lived in the East Kootenays and being a railroad enthusiast I have read a lot of articles on the rivalry between the CPR and the Great Northern Railroad.
It is somewhat ironic that Mr. Hill the founder of the Great Northern, who was a Canadian was responsible for bringing the railroad into the South East region. The reason CPR brought their railway into the area was to challenge the GNR for the resources in this area.
The Great Northern railway was a major railroad in the South East portion of BC. At the time the 4-8-0's were their largest engines, a short time later when GN acquired the L1 2-6-6-2's these were the predominate heavy freight engines.
The GN ran a number of their 4-8-0's there as there were a number of portions of 3% grade on their trackage as well as portions of the Kettle Valley on which they had running rights.
If the 4-8-0's were released in the Spectrum or Heritage lines I would buy a number of these for my layout.
Good Evening All,
There were three pix shown earlier here and a comment about the relocation of the headlight. Not only was the headlight moved but the pix show two completely different headlights. Also, for those not aware, and I think it was mentioned earlier, but if not, I will mention it, the N&W used two different tenders behind their M class engines. One had four axle trucks and the other had 6 axle trucks.
Quote from: ebtbob on January 22, 2010, 07:49:25 PM
..... the N&W used two different tenders behind their M class engines. One had four axle trucks and the other had 6 axle trucks.
Actually there were more than two different types used by the N&W behind class M locomotives (not to metion M1 and M2 classes (and subclasses)). The N&W did ALOT of tender swapping over the years, you need to rely on dated photos for specifics. Vern French's book on the Williamson Terminal is one of the best sources of further information.
Nigel,
Thanks for mentioning the Williamson Terminal book. I will be off to the book store on Monday to start my search.