I am up to 21 Bachmann locos... quite a stable. It was time for a break to work on a brass project.
I have a Westside Q-4b. It came with jewels in the headlight and reverse light. The previous owner bought the loco with jewels in place, so he didn't know how they were glued in. I am trying to figure out how to remove them without damaging the lamps:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3099_zps17d30220.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3099_zps17d30220.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3105_zpsd82dd205.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3105_zpsd82dd205.jpg.html)
I know some of you have some brass experience and may have some ideas.
I am thinking of drilling a hole through the jewels and injecting some paint thinner to see if things loosen up. The other thought is to use a low heat (15 watts) soldering iron to melt them out. However, I don't yet know if the jewels are glass or plastic. I would greatly appreciate some input on what I might try.
I have been building some 0603 SMD LEDs. Very tiny. I'm having about a 75% success rate at the tiny soldering:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3128_zps9bab4a70.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3128_zps9bab4a70.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3135_zps3f082786.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3135_zps3f082786.jpg.html)
These are what I want to use for lighting... perhaps even a cab light and some firebox glow.
The other parts of the project (motor, gearbox, paint) I got a handle on.
Thanks again!
Regards,
Jonathan
be very careful if you try to melt those lamps out. you might unsolder other things on the locomotive. you could try drilling them out with a pin vise. if they are glued in, putting a drop of acetone in the drilled out holes might loosen the glue.
Thanks, Jeffery.
Indeed, I was thinking of the pin vice option as the safest thing to try first, gradually increasing the size of the hole, until I could drop in some sort of evil chemical to release the jewels. If the jewels are glass, I don't know how effective the bits will be, but it sounds like a good place to start.
Will let you know what happens.
Regards,
Jonathan
TRY SOME FREEZE SPAY AND A HAIR DRIER/ HEAT GUN , HOT AND COLD CONCEPT WILL EXPAND THINGS DIFFERENTLY , GET LOOSE , PROTECT OTHER AREAS WITH TIN FOIL, TAKING CARE NOT TOO MUCH HEAT! TO MELT THINGS,HOPE THIS HELPS.JACK
Jonathan,
The only thing I could think of is to take your soldering iron (I usually keep some old pencil types around for uses not pertaining to soldering) and stick the tip into the middle of the jewel and if it's plastic it will melt and possibly have enough heat on the jewel to loosen it. If it's glass the heat may transfer through to the sealant enough to loosen it.
Hope it works
Jerry
Jonathan-
The marker jewels I have encountered have all been glass. There may be some plastic ones around but I haven't come across any. It should be easy to determine the material; just see if you can scratch the jewel with a hobby knife.
Assuming your jewels are glass, keep in mind that metal reacts more to temperature changes than does glass. I'd try spraying some canned air on the markers' backs to chill them and then the soldering iron to heat the marker from behind. Hopefully, that'll crack the glue bond.
This may turn out to be a cannot do project. If so, you might have to unsolder the markers and replace them with new ones.
-- D
Doneldon,
The head/reverse light jewels are indeed glass. I tried drilling into them. That will take weeks and lots of bits. I agree I may have to replace the brass parts! but I will try a few other things prior to giving up. I know those jewels want to let go. Just a matter of applying the right physics. :)
BTW this loco ran about 5 feet before the 36-year-old rubber connector crumbled to dust. The motor is very small as well. Many things to fix. Oh, the joy...
Regards,
Jonathan
Hi Jonathan - is your Q-4b one of the ones that come in the Westside red, white, blue bicentennial box? I had one, and it had the neat B&O water bottle auxillary tender included. They were not the best brass models. The guy who owned Westside underwent a divorce and his cashflow was severely impacted so he was having his models done by a new Korean company.
From the start cold soldered joints fell off. The Tender frames didn't allow the trucks to swing and, yes, it had a teensie little can motor. I sold mine at a Timonium show. It required too much work. Earlier runs (red box) were much better than the 1976 batch.
You may have to remove the marker lamps and give them an acetone bath. You'd mess up the nice paint! I'm sure you'll come up with a solution.
Woody,
Yep, this is the 76 version. I've already fixed the binds, tweaked the gearbox and ordered a larger motor. The tender frame has already been replaced. Surprisingly, it will run down to 22" radius curves.
Oh, it has a better bell now. I will run a pull cord at some point.
Not worried about wrecking the paint... I can paint, um, we'll enough for my layout. ;D
Gonna be a lengthy project. Thanks!
Regards,
Jonathan
Success! Thanks to all to provided some great advice. I used a little bit of every piece of knowledge.
I applied heat to the edge of the headlight with a 15 watt soldering iron, while at the same time, grasping the jewel with the edges of my track cutter. I was able to pop it off after a few seconds:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3203_01_zps2f99fb14.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3203_01_zps2f99fb14.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3204_zps8b6f7599.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3204_zps8b6f7599.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3205_zps2e7f4cec.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3205_zps2e7f4cec.jpg.html)
Just a little cleaning up required before I start drilling for lights. The reverse light worked, too, using the same process, with no damage. Whew!
At the same time, I'm replacing the motor. This will require a little grinding in the shell. Here's a couple of shots while I construct a new motor mount from the leftover scrap brass:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3199_zpsca11fa08.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3199_zpsca11fa08.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3197_zpse35df9ae.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3197_zpse35df9ae.jpg.html)
Thanks again, my friends,
Regards,
Jonathan
Regarding the tender frame - Westside later offered a free under frame that was narrower than the stock model.
There once was a guy who worked out of his garage selling HO brass parts. He called himself Trackside Specialties. He purchased all the Westside parts inventory. I remember visiting his booth once at the Timonium show. He had dozens of pairs of assembled valve gear for various Westside models. If you liked to tinker with brass models, going to his booth you could find trucks, drivers, frame springs and assembled valve gear - that sort of thing. He also had O scale parts plus he sold things he's find when hobby shops went out of business. I haven't seen him in Timonium for years and I often wonder what happened to his inventory.
Jon, I knew you would find a way of removing the jewels. I remember that the bell on my engine was loose and not too well detailed. Good luck with your upgrade. Keep us posted.
Jon - Following up on my last post I googled Trackside Specialties - and came up with a company called Greenway - they have all sorts of nifty little parts. Have you you ever heard of them?
Indeed!
I have purchased many parts from Greenway... especially when modifying my Bachmann locos. The owner has some serious health issues. He's hoping to be well enough to start shipping parts again in the Spring. This may be another company that is not long for this world.
The improved tender frame came from these folks. I always visit the Greenway booth, getting ideas for projects.
Regards,
Jonathan
If the owner of Greenway is the same man that ran Trackside Specialties he would be really up in years. A business like his is more of a hobby because you can't get rich selling little packets of 2 mm screws or assembled valvegear made for one specific engine.
Good luck with the Q4b it has always been one of my favorite locos.
Thanks, Woody,
Like the Consolidation, the Mike was one of those do-it-all locomotives. Had to have one, and this brass one was the best bargain going at the moment... mostly due to all the work involved to get it running right.
Once the over-sized motor is mounted more permanently--I finally got it squeezed into the limited space--I think I'll have a good work horse to compliment all the Connies that move through the layout.
Regards,
Jonathan
Do you have the auxillary tender? My Westside Q4b included one.
Yes. However, I am tempted to install a suitable set of plastic trucks as the brass trucks are not the best rollers in the world. Haven't studied them, yet, to determine the right style of trucks to use as a replacement. :)
Regards,
Jonathan
Addendum:
Right now, I'm knee-deep in the reverse light installation. The light can is tiny... can barely squeeze in the surface mount LED. Drilling the hole was tricky, but got it done without breaking anything.
Happy Thanksgiving! Today, the holiday season is upon us. I tried to get a little more modeling done before Christmas shopping, and cooking, over take my life.
Here's the motor all ready to go:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3206_zpsd3814055.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3206_zpsd3814055.jpg.html)
The motor sits on a rubber sheet material I found. The top portion has a small piece of electrical tape. Those two things should protect the motor from my crude, but effective, mounting strap. Test went well. Mechanism runs smoothly.
More to the point of this thread; here is the reverse light with smd LED installed:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3209_zps9418ecf8.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3209_zps9418ecf8.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3210_zpscd4f725f.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3210_zpscd4f725f.jpg.html)
The light works, but doesn't photograph well... perhaps after the lens is intalled...
I painted the inside of the light can with silver paint... just seemed like the right thing to do.
One wire is soldered to a brass nut on one of the truck screws. The other wire will connect to the locomotive via a 2mm bullet plug, just like the pros do it. ;)
Regards,
Jonathan
Addendum:
Fear not! I put a 1K ohm resistor in the circuit. ;D
Looking good! Best part seems to be that you'll be saving what looks like a decent paint job, may only need a bit of touch-up. And that rear LED is tiny! How do you see what you're doing?
I wear progressive lens glasses. On top of that I put on some +3.25 reading glasses. Then for really tiny stuff like those smd's, I have a lit magnifying glass on a stand and some bright spot lights. Even then I seem to be working on the edge of what I can see and manipulate with tiny tools.
Gotta do it now while I have steady enough hands.
Yes! I believe I will be able to save the paint job. AND I intend to weather heavily. It will take a while to finish, but I already completed the hard stuff (mechanism and lighting).
Thanks.
Regards,
Jonathan
Here's the reverse light working, with a lens installed. The white glue is still drying:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3227_zps337a69f7.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3227_zps337a69f7.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3228_zps0783ff6e.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3228_zps0783ff6e.jpg.html)
Nice! 8)
jonathan........
You do some nice work, sir. Always a pleasure to see your project photos.
Sid
Just noticed an interesting detail--the model is equipped with steam and signal lines for passenger service on the tender. That would make this a Q-4 modified for passenger service (which is prototypical), often for mountain service or passenger helper service.
In fact, there is a photo of a Q-4 substituting for a streamlined P-7 on the Cincinnatian, which for a while was one of B&O's fastest trains! Wonder how well that low-drivered freighter kept to the Cincinnatian's time!
Jonathan-
Your rear light couldn't look better.
-- D
Jon - once again you have shown the readers that most any little problem can be sealt with. It's too bad that there are so many "shake the box" modellers out there.
My biggest triumph with Brass engines was when I found an Empire Midland Southern Ry mountain at the Timonium show. Somebody had disassembled it becasue the frame pieces had become unsoldered. Cold soldewr joints were a big problem with early Korean models.
I bought the thing (it was cheap) and completely stripped it. I made a form to hold the frame pieces (after removing the gold colored paint)and resassembled it with a Bernzomatic torch, plumbers flux and solder. It was quite a task putting the thing back together becasue the wheel bearings didn't quite fit the openings and the springs for the driverswere too stiff. Also the frame was not square - I had to do a lot of filing prior to soldering,
I junked the cheap, undersize motor for the biggest can motor I could find. I put the assembled mechanisn (less valve gear and boiler) on the tracks with a tender. Lo and behold the mechanism ran smoothly, quietly and slowly. I was very pleased with myself as other club members thought the engine was junk and suggested I go to counseling as I was obviously deranged!
I eventually finished the engine and sold it to a SRy fan at a later train show.
I always found tinkering with brass engines to be very enjoyable.
Thanks guys. I fear you are too kind. I just follow instructions written by others.
Regards,
Jonathan
Jonathan; not advocating you becoming a glutton for punishment, but remove them-or just install new brass parker lamps; and instead, use optic fibres. They will be more pliant, and will also conduct light, which if you really want to push, can be lit by coloured LEDs. Using optic fibres is a relatively easy task. First heat a portion of fibre until it bubbles out, cool it, then cut it with a sharp razor. Polish the cut bubble lens using a fine crocus, graduating to lapping compound; then insert them fibre first, into the cavity of the (new) marker lamp. The whole process isn't as intimidating as this post.
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on December 01, 2013, 01:53:57 PM
Jonathan; not advocating you becoming a glutton for punishment, but remove them-or just install new brass parker lamps; and instead, use optic fibres. They will be more pliant, and will also conduct light, which if you really want to push, can be lit by coloured LEDs. Using optic fibres is a relatively easy task. First heat a portion of fibre until it bubbles out, cool it, then cut it with a sharp razor. Polish the cut bubble lens using a fine crocus, graduating to lapping compound; then insert them fibre first, into the cavity of the (new) marker lamp. The whole process isn't as intimidating as this post.
Rich C.
The lamps either side of the smokebox, which I assume you are discussing, are NOT "marker" lamps but are "classification" lamps. They display two colours. White for an extra train, and white flags during daylight and green for a section, with green flags during daylight. For timetabled trains, the lamps are not lit and no flags are displayed.
Marker lamps are carried on the last car of the train. According to the rules, it's not a train until the markers are applied and ceases to be a train when the markers are removed.
Hope this helps as we do need to use the correct terminology so we are all on the same page. :)
Whilst I have considered the light fiber option for my "classification" lamps, I have not been brave enough to attempt it... yet. Also, the jewels were already in place when I purchased this model... Hence, the incorrect red jewels in the side spots. I'm fresh out of jewels right now so the red jewels will stay in place until a later date.
OK, to finish up, here are some final shots. While the loco is not quite done, it's close enough to satisfy the illumination topic on this thread.
Wiring the headlight:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3240_zpsb932d46a.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3240_zpsb932d46a.jpg.html)
Before current applied:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3243_zps9c3f5764.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3243_zps9c3f5764.jpg.html)
Current applied with drivers turning... no shorts (whew):
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3242_zps5c2e22f7.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3242_zps5c2e22f7.jpg.html)
As you might be able to see, there is not a spare millimeter of space in the motor cavity:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3245_zps5d8bf778.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3245_zps5d8bf778.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3246_zpsf580cc94.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3246_zpsf580cc94.jpg.html)
This is where I will connect the reverse light... if the 2mm bullet connectors will ever arrive from China:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3248_zps0b2254c9.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3248_zps0b2254c9.jpg.html)
Finally, some gratuitous shots of the near completed loco. Still need a few decals, window glazing, crew figures, etc.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3249_zps49a54075.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3249_zps49a54075.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3251_zps0453a4eb.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3251_zps0453a4eb.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3254_zps0ba40748.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3254_zps0ba40748.jpg.html)
Thanks for all your help, kind words, and attention. :)
Regards,
Jonathan
As a sidebar, a friend and I built the pilot model for the Westside Q-4b. We began with an old Akane, which was essentially stripped down to the bare boiler and added all new Cal-Scale or Kemtron detail parts and new piping. I got one of the production models at cost, which I still have. I too replaced the skinny little motor with a fatter Sagami can. Note too that the original run had an incorrectly shaped smokebox front. A replacement part was produced later. Don't recall now whether it came from Westside or some other supplier.
When our club went to CTC-16 (yeah, that long ago!) I didn't want to hack up the brass Vandy tender for the receiver. Instead I got one of the Rivarossi S-1 plastic tenders (they were still readily available back then), cut out the coal load and installed the receiver. A balsa wood insert covered with crushed real coal covered the hole. A set of brass Commonwealth six-wheel trucks replaced the Rivarossis with the pizza cutter wheels. The engine was later re-equipped with a Dynatrol receiver and finally a Digitrax DCC receiver. If and when the McKeesport club get their DCC system in place I can get it back out of the box.
That's some serious modeling my friend. I saw some of that CTC stuff in old Keller films showing great model railroads of the 70s and early 80s. Actually, I'm surprised the whole wireless receiver idea didn't take a more permanent hold. Instead we got DCC. Well, that is wireless, too, indirectly.
Anyway, hats off to you for your great modeling work.
Completely off on another tangent... I was playing with my camera this afternoon. Really want to get rid of the point-and-shoot and get a DSLR. Gotta learn how to compose a shot, though. Here's some shots, all the same subject, my reworked Q-4. However, I moved pieces around a bit, as well as moving the camera. Also in the shots are the Spectrum Heavyweight Dining Car "Molly Pitcher", a baggage cart laser wood kit, and some figures. The diner has been lit with LEDs and figures put inside. This is all pure frivolous fun:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3256_zpsb27ddbd4.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3256_zpsb27ddbd4.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3257_zps19dbd36b.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3257_zps19dbd36b.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3258_zps5c7bd20f.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3258_zps5c7bd20f.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3259_zps9b776fe4.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3259_zps9b776fe4.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3261_zpsf05e6d0c.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3261_zpsf05e6d0c.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN3260_zps139d7ca5.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN3260_zps139d7ca5.jpg.html)
Nice shots, at least to my eye; somehow they "feel" like Cumberland, Md., near the long gone Queen City station. . .