Roger, I don't have a web site but I have posted some info on this before, here and on the MR forum, but I'm happy to repeat it.

The loco is obviously a "what if", but a very possible what if. It is based on the DT&I 800 series Mikados built by LIMA the same time they were building the Berks for the NKP, PM and C&O. These DT&I locos look amazingly like NKP Berks, only a little smaller.

So my loco is "what if someone had ordered a modern Mike with 69" drivers?" And actually, those Berks could have built as Mikes for roads like the C&O who had very heavy rail/roadbed throught their systems - I have done the engineering math!

Here is a picture of one before the paint shop:



I simply replaced the trailing truck with a brass one from Precision Scale Co. and made a new drawbar. I removed the existing drawbar peg and the new drawbar is attached at the original trailing truck frame attachment. The new trailing truck is attached to the drawbar - like many models years ago.

This improves the "pull line" making the loco track and pull better.

While the loco is very nice, out of the box they are a bit light. But there is plenty of room for more weight. I added over five oz to them. Here are some photos of the added weight:







I also removed the circuit board caps and decoder, added about 2 oz to the tender, and added a few extra details. They run and look good and pull about 40 cars on level track.

I plan to experiment with BullFrogSnot for even better pulling power.

Sheldon

Roger, I understand and I too have large roster of Spectrum steam, and the several non Spectrum items I listed. I agree with you completely about much of the older Bachmann Standard line - but that does truely seem to be water uner the bridge.

As for Athearn, I understand your furstration. Athearn took its first "chance" with a Chinnese builder on those two locos - and they got burned as well. The builder made those locos, then promptly got out of the model train business, leaving Athearn with a mess. Yet my Athearn USRA light Mikado continues to run fine - they weren't all defective.

For me it is Atlas who never seems to make anything in my era or matching my theme - a shame as they make great product.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the new Bachmann Standline products. If the 2-6-0 is as nice as the 2-8-4, it will be a great asset to the hobby.

As for bad experiances, I have had bad luck with Broadway Limited, and with two of the locos I had problems with, they had the same problem as Athearn - no parts available. I ended up rebuilding them myself to make them run.

Take care,

Sheldon

Roger,

As per my response on another forum to your same question/comment:

If you prejudge this model based on the name on the box, you will be selling yourself short.

My five 2-8-4's, converted to freelanced 2-8-2's are excelent locos. That loco has recieved high praise from many. The once Spectrum 44 tonner, 70 tonner and 2-8-0 all now come in "Standard Line" boxes. If you think somehow they have been cheapened, you are misinformed - the 2-8-0's are exactly the same, the 44 and 70 tonner are actually improved from their original Spectrum versions.

Here is how Bachmann is saving money with these items. Look at the size and complexity of the old 2-8-0 packaging, the box cost much more than the new Standard line box, and now three or four locos can be shipped in the same space compared to the Spectrum packing.

I have LONG said, over and over, on this and other forums, about ANY and EVERY brand, including your endless beef with Athearn over one product, that EACH individual product should be judged on its own merits, not prejudged because of who made it, who marketed it, what color box it comes in, where it is made, what it is made out of and so on.

EVERY company in this business, and in every business, has made a dud now and then. And some of the worst companies in the world have had a few winners.

But Bachmann has been on a clear path to overall quality improvement regardless of your "feelings" on the subject.

I knew a guy who years ago would not buy an American car, saying they were all junk. He bought a 1993 Mazda Navajo SUV, and raved about how great it was - then I opened the hood and proved to him it was just a rebadged Ford Explorer - Made in the USA - his opinion of American cars changed.

Sheldon

Mark,

To some of your other points. I don't know what brand of turnouts you are using but my Berks have no issues with the front trucks.

Addtionally, I have added over five oz. of weight to the locomotives and greatly improved their pulling power.

And, most of my berks are actually now Mikado's, free lanced after the DT&I 800 class Mikes built by LIMA.

Here is a photo of one before the paint shop:



Here are some photos of the added weight:





In addition to the weight shown, I fill the sand box and steam dome with lead and add 1/2 oz stick on weight to the inside of the backhead.

Sheldon

Mark, I just checked the product info on this site, 1225 is shown correctly, 1218 shown incorrectly. But I assure you the actual models sold are still correct.

Sheldon

Mark,

The artwork is incorrect, likely based on some preproduction models. The first catalog they appeared in had the incorrect photos, but all the models actually sold have the correct N, N1 configuration.

The 2010 catalog has correct pictures so I'm not sure why the wrong ones are still out there.

Sheldon

mf5117,

If your loco is not moving, then there is no power going to the motor, so it can't "burn up" at idle. If you are refering to the fact that you can "start" the throttle and light the lights before the motor starts, how long would you logicly let it sit like that? And, since the pulses are very spread out at that point, not much heat will build up in the motor. Likely no more than pulling a heavy train at 3/4 throttle.

What type of control are you talking about - onboard radio with the Aristo Train Engineer? Using track power to charge onboard batteries?

In theory, some motors will run hotter at SLOW SPEEDS on pulse width control, but in the case of almost all G scale trains, the motors are big enough and have enough venting for this to not be a problem.

Pluse width modulation IS DC,  it just uses pulses of full voltage rather than partial voltage to control speed.

Not sure where you are getting all this negative info on PWC, Many of us have used it for years, even with HO and N scale with no problems. I've never burned up a motor in any model train on any kind of throttle in over 40 years.

Sheldon

Quote from: adari on February 08, 2011, 03:19:16 PM
Should I cut the capacitors on the motor?

YES!

A better decoder would likely do it. On the 70 tonner the decoder ismade right onto the lighting board, so it is a bit of a rewire job, but it can be done.

I quickly learned how to bypass the decoder portion so that it would run with my DC throttles, which do not like decoders.

Sheldon

Adam,

Are you operatinf it on DC or DCC? If it is a DCC on board version, the kind of DC controller you may be using could be the problem. The dual mode decoder in the 70 tonner does not "play well" with all DC controllers.

Sheldon

First, there are a lot of locos in the standard line, some run better than others, the motors are not the only issue, if there really are any "issues".

As Rich suggested, be more specific.

I have multiple copies of standard line GE70 tonners and 2-8-4's - All run great.

All have had their DCC decoders removed and I run them on Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles.

So without a specific loco to comment on, no one can really help you. It is foolish at best to judge these products by the "brand" or the "group". Each different loco is a different design with its own strengths and weaknesses. Same is true with Spectrum locos or other brands - another reason to be more specific about a problem you are trying to solve.

Personally, replacing motors in Bachmann locos sounds crazy to me. I have about 40 Bachmann locos, Standard and Spectrum, diesel and steam. They all run great. some did need some minor adjustments and I have learned lots of little tricks to make them run their best, but none started out as terible runners.

The following are a number of small improvements I have developed, in some cases with the help of others, for many of the current and recent Bachmann HO locomotives, mostly those in their Spectrum line.

Here is a repost of some of my Bachmann loco tips:

After mentioning some of these items in another post, John requested I elaberate. Much of this info I have posted before, either here or on the Bachmann board, but for those who missed those - here goes:

But first a disclaimer - I run DC, using Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless throttles. Some of my performance related changes are directly related to the use these throttles or in some cases, you may see an improvement with any DC throttle, but maybe not to the same degree as the Train Engineer which has a pulse width modulated output.

Tip #1 - remove the motor circuit RF suppression capacitors. They are generally located on the circuit board often right near were the motor leads are attached. Sometimes they are disc type, on most newer models they are PC board type. Removing them will lower the starting speed and lower the slowest operational speed. It will also correct problems with some brands of aftermarket decoders.

This mod is especially effective on the 2-8-0, but does improve EVERY loco, and I have now removed ALL such capacitors.

I do this to all brands of products that have such RF filters in place. In addition to Bachmann, I have found them on some Intermountain and Proto2000 DC versions.

Tip #2 - add weight to the tenders - if you run long trains or do lots of backing, or back whole trains into staging, this will vertually eliminate tender derailments while backing. Additionally it greatly improves electrical pickup and is one key step in eliminating problems with the tender to loco wires.

Some other brands also need weight, but this is mainly a Bachmann issue. I add about 2 oz to most all Bachmann tenders. It seems to have no negative effect on pulling power as it is less than the weight of one freight car.

Tip #3 - OK, now we get loco specific - Spectrum USRA Heavy 4-8-2 - I modify the drawbar by bending a "dip" into it as close to the loco end as possible - about 1/8" in length and depth. This provides better clearance for the wires, which plug in directly above the drawbar on this model, and shortens the drawbar slightly, which improves the locos appearance. I run all my locos close coupled as I have large curves, but this mod does not seem to effect the use of either position or decrease useable minimum radius.

Tip #4 - replacing Bachmann couplers with Kadee couplers - generally the coupler pockets are too shallow to allow Kadee's to drop in. To solve this I gently file down th shank of Kadee #148's until they fit - I never use generic couplers on anything.

Tip #5 - the previously Spectrum, now regular line 2-8-0 - I add a small amount of additional weight in the domes. Not sure it really helps much, but I feel better about it. I also remove the metal spring from the pilot truck. This does seem to show a measurable increase in pulling power, if only by a few cars.

Tip #6 - the new regular line 2-8-4 - it is very easy to add about 5 oz of weight to these and greatly improve their pulling power - I will try to get a picture up showing the boiler off and the weight added. Mine will pull 35 cars on level track after the added weight.

Tip #7 - tender swaps - the following is a copy of a post from some years ago on the Bachmann board regarding tender swaps. It contains most everything you need to know about Spectrum tender swaps and how to do them without major rewiring or moving/replacing circuit boards:

Tender Swap – Bachmann medium Vanderbilt oil tender (Item #89905) with 63" driver 10 wheeler (Item #82307)



Initial test using jumpers provided with the tender – dead short, no operation.



Original plan – move 10 wheeler circuit board into new tender. This proved unworkable for several reasons, 10 wheeler circuit board too large and wires too short to fit into Vanderbilt tender without major modifications to both the tender and the circuit board.



New plan – can existing circuit board from Vanderbilt tender be rewired to work with 10 wheeler. A simple examination of both circuit boards revealed that while different, they both have the same basic connections, so the problem must lie in pin assignments in the connectors.



Tracing wires and a few simple checks revealed that the two wire connector simply brings the loco pickups to the circuit board. Reversing the wires on one end of the two wire jumper corrected this. Now the loco runs but in the wrong direction.



Two of the wires on the four wire plug are the motor leads. Reversing them gave us correct operational direction.



This only left the front headlight. The circuit board in the Vanderbilt tender is for the 2-8-0 which has 12 volt lamps for lighting. The 10 wheeler uses LED's, this is the main reason the circuit board is different. Rather than trying to modify the circuit, I simply replaced the loco headlight LED with a 12 volt lamp.



Additionally I added weight to the Vanderbilt tender bringing it weight to about 5 oz. and replaced all couplers with genuine Kadee #148 on both the loco front and tender.



Result – loco now converted, runs well with original 10 wheeler draw bar and looks great.  



This issue seems to be tied to what tender cam with what loco in the first place. I do not have all of the Bachmann spectrum locos, but from what I have seen, read and experienced, the following may be a good beginning of a compatibility chart:



Light Mountain & Consolidation will work with all of the "medium" tenders.



Heavy Mountain and 2-6-6-2 will work with the long coal tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender



Russian shares same tender with some 10 wheelers, so I am guessing they share the same circuit board.



The 10 wheeler is really a wild card here because it comes with three different tenders, depending on roadname. Some have the low, small "pre 1900" looking tender, some have the small tender from the Russian and one has the same tender as the consolidation, but obviously with a different circuit board.



But again, I think most of these differences are just the pin assignments and the type of headlight.

If anyone has other Bachmann tender swap questions, I can likely help, just ask. I have used Spectrum tenders behind a number of other brands of locos with good results as well.

This is quite long now, so I will leave it at this. Feel free to offer your thoughts or ask questions.

Sheldon

Sure, Bob is right, do whatever you want, but don't complain when it does not work after those with technical experiance have told you it will likely be a problem.

Minimum radius suggestions from manufacturers are surely going to have some wiggle room because they are going to allow for less than perfect track. BUT, unless you think you are the "perfect track master" than you would be wise to follow their recommendations.

Again, do what you like, but I'll tell you what I do - I have 36" radius as my minimum mainline radius, with very carefully layed track and spiral easments - and I won't run a 2-10-2 on my layout - just because of looks. I limit loco size based on "Rigid Wheelbase", the distance from the center to center of any drivers on a fixed frame.

For example the rigid wheel base of an articulated loco is only the based on one set of drivers.

For me that limit is 20 scale feet - that is based on some known prototype info on curves and locomotive design. That rules out a 2-10-2 since its rigid wheelbase is nearly 22'.

My trains never derail.

Sheldon

To all, sorry to be so long in getting back to this, it's been a busy week on other fronts.

Here is the link to my long runnig thread on Radio Control.

Unfortunately my book is still only moving forward slowly due to several family issues, BUT, there is light at the end of the tunnel as some of those issues are winding up and will be off my plate soon, in just a few weeks!

My new modular version of my layout is designed and it too should be able to move forward shortly.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,2893.0.html

The OP e-mailed me and explained as he did on here as well. No problem, I was just wondering?

The other layout that my system is installed on is still working very well. We operated on it just last Tuesday. We do have just a few very minor improvements planned.

Thank you to all who are interested, while progess is slow, the book and system documentation are coming.

Sheldon

WHY?

Gandydancer #1,

Glad you are 60 and doing well, and if you are interested in modeling present day, that's fine. But keep this in mind, except in the "bosom of sprawling suburbia" most of the country is filled with a variety of structures from all eras.

It is 2011, I live in the Mid Atlantic region of the US, and I live in a 1901 Queen Anne style house. And most of the buildings in my neighborhood were built before 1920.

In the nearest town, there is the "big box suburb era" and also the "200 year old small town" area - still intact.

So while you should have a some "modern" structures to "mark" your time period, almost anything available may find a logical home on a modern layout.

And, older buildings often get renovated - learn some kit bashing skills and "modernize" a few older buildings to reflect what has likely been done in yor own twon.

Sheldon