Quote from: Pacific Northern on January 07, 2011, 02:19:55 PM
I have a couple of these, with and without sound and they really are "pullers". I am surprised that Bachmann does not currently offer these engines with or without sound as they are not currently in production.

What is available is old stock. I would think that these engines would be very popular and that Bachmann would continue to produce them. 

Pacific Northern,

Just to give you some idea, in one production run, which only takes a few months, they can make more Heavy Mountains than are likely to be sold in 2-3 years. Now that many people have them, there is less of a market.

After some time pases there may well be a renewed demand as new people enter the hobby or their interests change. Bachmann can always make more then.

There is plenty of "old stock" out there right now, and thre is nothing wrong with it. Not everything you buy in this world was "made last week", or even last year.

I have nine of them, without DCC or sound since I don't use either, and yes they are great locos.

Sheldon

kvr,

It sounds like you have a defective loco. It should have ran on DC with no modification.

That said, they do run better on DC with the decoders removed, but since that did not fix the problem, the loco must have a problem.

Sheldon

WARNING - The State of California has determined that breathing is hazardous to your health as studies have confirmed beyond any doubt that everyone who breathes eventually dies.

The solution to polution is dilution - just ask the EPA.

Or consider the fact that if you have ever bleached your clothes or swam in a pool you have been exposed to one of the most deadly poisons on the planet - chlorine.

There is nothing about a Bachmann train set that is of any danger to you or your child - unless his playmate smacks him in the head with the locomotive or he chews on the power cord with it plugged in.

Just remember - Common Sense has been outlawed by the Socialists, but I promise not to turn you in if you keep some stashed away in your brain.

Sheldon

Since that loco is small, and has a cast metal boiler, it is not likely that any smoke unit would fit in it without major machine work.

If I may ask, why do you want smoke? In general, it is not very realistic when compared to real steam locos and the smoke fumes are not good for you or your train layout.

For me, smoke is better left to my imagination.

Sheldon

Ed the two locos are the same, but the discription of the unlettered one does not include the prototype designation.

Sheldon

Quote from: OldTimer on November 20, 2010, 12:25:03 PM
It's a ten-wheeler (4-6-0).  Ten-wheelers were dual service locomotives and apparently the railroads really liked them because I have read that there were more 4-6-0's built than any other wheel arrangement.
OldTimer

Actually, all time North American production numbers look something like this:

2-8-0    33,000
4-4-0    25,000
4-6-0    17,000
0-6-0    15,000
2-8-2    14,000
2-6-0    11,000
4-6-2      6,800
0-8-0      2,800
4-8-2      2,400
4-4-2      1,900
2-6-2      1,700
0-4-0      1,500
4-8-4      1,000
2-8-4         750
4-6-4         500

Ten wheelers hold third place very comfortably. While many were considered dual service, in the age of the 2-8-0 for freight service, Ten Wheelers were the "modern" passenger power replacing 4-4-0's which could no longer handle ever heavier trains.

And as articulated locos go, only a few wheel arrangements go above 100 or so copies.

The clear winner is the 2-6-6-2 at about 1,300 examples.

Sheldon

Jeff,

To the issue of whether it is better to leave the decoder in for DC operation depends a lot on the kind of DC throttle you have. With most regular power packs the DCC decoder will not make much difference either way, except for the higher starting voltage.

BUT, if you use any kind of more advanced DC throttle, that has automatic pluse power or pulse width modulation for beter speed control, you will want to remove the decoder.

And you will want to remove the capacitors that are wired accross the motor leads on the circuit board.

I use the Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles and most dual mode decoders simily will not work with my throttles. But with the decoders removed, these throttles provide slow speed perfromance equal to any DCC decoder/system.

Sheldon

David, are you using flex track? I ask because the #6 turnouts will not "fit in" to sectional track curves.

Yes the 2-10-2 will run fine through #6's, but it alos requires larger curves for good operation, at least 22" radius, and bigger would be better.

Sheldon

ebtbob,

Atlas product #540/541 - left/right hand remote snap switch, 18" radius - not labeled a #4 by Atlas, comes with 1/3 18" radius and with such is equal to a 18" radius piece of "snap track" and straight portion is 9' long - this turnout has a curved frog - but by North American Railroad practice of unit measure is aprox. a #3.5

Atlas Product #561/562 - left/right hand Custom Line #4 turnout - no switch motor, no 1/3 18" radius piece - not the same as the product listed above - WILL NOT REPLACE A SECTION OF 18" RADIUS - has straight frog at 12.5 degree angle - by North American Railroad practice of unit measure is ACTUALLY a #4.5 - BUT it too is 9" long along the straight portion.

Atlas Product #563/564 - left/right hand Custom Line #6 turnout - no switch motor, no other accessories included - has a straight frog at 9.5 degree angle - by North American Railroad of unit measure is a #6 - measures 12" along straight portion.

You can call the first two items both #4's all day long, that does not make it so or make them interchange with each other - they will not - the "snap switch" is much sharper than the #4 Custom Line turnout and has a curved frog.

But both are STILL too sharp for a Spectrum 2-10-2. The third will work fine for the 2-10-2

Next time you'r in the hobby shop, get a "snap switch", an Atlas #4, and a Walthers #4 and lay them all one on top each other - you will clearly see they are all three different angles - so they can't "all" be number 4's.

The Walthers will be the only true #4, with the "snap switch" being sharper and the Custom Line being more gentle than the Walthers - because it's really a #4.5.

These facts have not changed since I first worked in a hobby shop - 1969.

When it comes to trackwork, precise is very important - it's what keeps our trains on the track - or not in tis case.


Sheldon

ebtbob,

The snap switches which come with the 1/3 18" radius are not #4's - they measure out to be #3.5 but have a curved frog.

The Custom line #4 is not really a #4 either, it measures out to be a #4.5

John Armstrong covered this in serval of his track planning books many decades ago.

bobwrgt,

That one blind driver is unlikely to compensate for the very sharp nature of the turnouts in question, especially since the loco manufacturer recommends 22" radius as the minimum - we can take that to mean 22" radius through a turnout as well.

Both an 18" radius snap switch or a #4 Custom Line have a subsitution radius that is less than 22".

And Bachmann also recommends 22" as the minimum for the heavy Mountain.

Sheldon

A few random thoughts on this:

$18 x 2 = $36 which is about 30% more than $25, I guess that is about twice as much depending on your definition of "about".

Allmost ALL Bachmann part numbers appear to be unique to each loco, even when it is obvious the parts are the same:

Examples - long haul tender floors, tender trucks, and some tender shells have different numbers for 2-6-6-2's, 4-8-2H's and 2-10-2's, but they are all obviously the same.

So we can assume that some otherwise identical parts are identified seperately for each loco.

The 2-8-2 motor does look unique, but so do many others in the line, I doubt its really "special" - because:

The motor alone is not likely the reason the loco runs so well and it is doubtfull that simply replacing the motors in other locos will make them run better.

A locomotive drive is a system - if there is a problem with the system find it and fix it. Don't just asume the motor is the problem.

What other locos do you have and why is the 2-8-2 better?

Will it run slower? All other factors being equal, that is just as likley a result of gear ratio as it is to be motor design.

Will it pull more? (I really doubt that) Pulling power is almost always a direct function of weight and loco suspension. At the power levels we are working at motor torque has little to do with that.

I have eight 2-8-0's, four 2-6-6-2's, nine 4-8-2H's, five 2-8-4's, and two 4-6-0's - they all run great.

I don't have the SY 2-8-2 as it does not fit my layout theme, so I cannot comment on its performance compared to my other Bachmann steamers - please explain.

Sheldon

Atlas #540, 541, 542 & 543 are 18" radius snap switches as I discribed in my first post.

That loco will no run through them.

I suspect #6's or MAYBE Bachmann #5's are likely the smallest turnouts that will work.

Atlas #4 Custom Line turnout are really #4.5, BUT my Spectrum heavy 4-8-2's will not run through those, so I doubt the 2-10-2 will.

Glenn, you are very correct about rigid wheel base vs number of drivers. A small loco like a Russian Decapod has five coupled drivers, but a relatively short rigid wheelbase for so many drivers - a scale 18.67'.

However, the 2-10-2 in question has a scale 21' rigid wheel base. A GS4 has a scale 21.5' rigid wheel base - not much different in this case. Both are way too big for the type of trackwork the OP is trying to use.

Again, my Spectrum 4-8-2H with a scale rigid wheelbase of 18.25' will not run through an Atlas #4 Custom Line - so expecting the 2-10-2, which is very similar in construction, to run through a snap switch is beyond hope.

Sheldon

Bob,

Just for the record, Atlas orginal snap switches, which equal 18" radius, measure out to be #3.5 - very sharp and with a curved frog.

Atlas does have a neww 22" radius snap switch, but based on the info given I suspect the OP has the sharper ones.

The loco in question will not run reliably on 18" radius, let alone go through a #3.5 frog.

Sheldon

Nice work Jonathan!

First, a few points about Bachmann locos and tenders.

MOST Spectrum locos sold with sound are the same as their non sound versions, so tsound tenders COULD be offered to easily upgrade non sound locos.

BUT, there are a few restrictions and problems:

Examples:

Older 2-8-0's have 12 volt headlights, newer units, sound and non sound, have LED headlights. So replacement tenders would only work with newer versions - most people don't know which is which.

And much older 1st run @-8-0's even have different plugs!

Just like tender swaps with tnders not offered orginally with a specific loco are a problem, so it would be with sound units.

So, I'm sure Bachmann sees this as too much potential trouble for the service department.

But, some newer tenders are available from the parts department and many come with speaker provisions.

Sheldon