I was thinking about installing some smoke units and would like to be able to control them with the dcc output control and a realize that the current that the
smoke generators use is too much for the decoder to handle .I would like to know if there is a micro type relay to use to use the low current dcc controll output
to control the high current that a smoke generator draws, and a example of how it could be wired without letting the smoke out of a Soundtraxx sound
decoder.I like the option of being able to turn it off, rather then letting it constantly draw and burn out prematurely If not being used.I have some 12 volt mini
automotive relays laying around ,but seem still to large and too much draw to be of any use in ho scale.Already fried part of a old mrc dcc decoder doing a trial and error with one of those relays.Guidance Appreciated.
Johnny Adam
What would you be using to generate the "smoke"?
Have you not read many times here, that most recommend against "smoke" as it creates a mess, that settles on the tracks and causes "why won't my loco run?" kinds of situations?
Click Here (http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Tech_note%2014.pdf) for info.
Does that mean you endorse "smoke"?
Quote from: brokenrail on January 02, 2016, 03:05:28 PM
I was thinking about installing some smoke units........................
Don't!They are unrealistic and are messy. They will leave a layer of oil over your locomotives, track and scenery.
At best, they just look as though your loco is smoking a cigarette. The smoke is thin and wispy looking, nothing like real locomotive exhaust. Completely unrealistic.
Happy New Year.
Roger T.
At last, someone else with reason....
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 02, 2016, 04:41:45 PM
Does that mean you endorse "smoke"?
If it is done correctly.I see many comments that it is messy and causes problems Yes I AGREE,because it is not being done the right way.IF the old mechanical sound systems were thrown out and never improved upon we would not have sound .Now would we.
Years ago when there were still stores around town we picked up these toy trains for the kids they were battery powered had lights,some kind of sound coming out of the station and smoke out of the loco.Well it was not smoke .It was powder driven by a pump type diaphragm mechanized off of a gear from a drive wheel.It worked somewhat ,but it was a great example of trying.We all know progress is not perfect,but isn't that why we have such great stuff today in model railroading?
The only HO locos that came close to looking like actual smoke were the old American Flyer HO 'Pacifics'. They had a piston, driven by a gear on the opposite side of the motor's worm from the drive axle, that forced air through the smoke unit to create a puffing effect, and a "chuff" sound with each puff. But the smoke unit pulls too much current to control directly with a decoder function output.
I've converted Flyer S-scale locos to Timko can motors, and added a G-scale decoder in the tender. There's enough room there to add a relay between the decoder function output and the smoke unit. But there's not enough space to do that in the HO loco.
Len
Broadway limited,The competition has some new smoke units out there that are fan driven that seem to be a work in progress ,but there not to shabby.I stumbled on to a link one day of someone using a micro transistorized type of relay that was very small and lost all the info on a pc that went to the scrapper.So far I have not found it.Time to reinvent the wheel it seems when dealing with smoke units.
Quote from: rogertra on January 02, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: brokenrail on January 02, 2016, 03:05:28 PM
I was thinking about installing some smoke units........................
Be nice to just have one that worked well to bring out every now and then to entertain .All that nice steam out there with sound does not get the realisum it should without it.Diesels you can burn some oil somewhere so it smells and there you go.
Don't!
They are unrealistic and are messy. They will leave a layer of oil over your locomotives, track and scenery.
At best, they just look as though your loco is smoking a cigarette. The smoke is thin and wispy looking, nothing like real locomotive exhaust. Completely unrealistic.
Happy New Year.
Roger T.
Quote from: brokenrail on January 03, 2016, 12:52:47 AM
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 02, 2016, 04:41:45 PM
Does that mean you endorse "smoke"?
If it is done correctly.
brokenail, I was posing my question to
Professor HUNT, who conspicuously, has not answered ::)
If it makes you happy to go against conventional wisdom and advice, then knock yourself out ;)
Brokenrail : considering the best smoke units cannot come anywhere near to real density of the smoke & steam exhaust of a prototypical steam locomotive and if they could , would be banned from production by the Environmental Protection Agency and the national boards of Health . Those kind of effluents would never be allowed for indoor use . Considering the amount of cleanliness that is necessary to run electric trains especially DCC equipment electric trains, smoke is a total waste of time & effort . If you absolutely have to have "smoke ", consider changing modeling scale and actually learn how to build functional miniature steam engines . Good Luck on your endeavor . J2.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 02, 2016, 04:30:41 PM
What would you be using to generate the "smoke"?
Have you not read many times here, that most recommend against "smoke" as it creates a mess, that settles on the tracks and causes "why won't my loco run?" kinds of situations?
Vapor not smoke.There is a difference.This allows the smokers to smoke indoors.Advancements are already there.MY son buildS the coils for them where he works. Something to go on.
GREAT. NICOTINE ADDICTED LOCOMOTIVES ;D
I work in the entertainment industry where we frequently use hazers, which as the name implies puts a haze into the atmosphere so the audience can see the light beams and to create hazy atmospheric effects in movies, like a smoky room for example and where we also employ foggers. Foggers put a dense fog into the air, so dense that sometimes you cannot see through it.
Modern foggers and hazers use a water based "juice" which is approved for use around humans, which is why they are used in concerts.
However, would I want this stuff used in my model railway room? No, not on a continuous basis, like every time I run the railroad. Once in a while for effects, yes, but that would be it. Besides, they have a habit of triggering smoke detectors which is why, in some venues, we have to contact the alarm company and advise them we a shutting the smoke detects off for the duration of the concert. They do not effect heat detectors, which many venues now use rather then smoke detectors.
Cheers
Roger T.
Finally a idea, thats a great start .Anybody know where to get one of those micro relays or this type of component that would offer the same effect of using the low current to switch a higher current on/off. A good vent fan in the train room came to mind since smoke is allowed .
Johnny
I think you are missing a few things...
Yep
I am just curious would adapting an electric cigarette be workable? its supposed to be just water vapor and would eliminate the oil residue. just a thought.....
Bill
It would also probably melt your loco and the "vapor" is not manufactured to be compaitble with the materials of train .
well, that would not be good!
Metal smoke boxes will work.I have noticed many of Bachmann steam engine have the smoke box that can be separated from the boiler.There 's a idea for a metal part upgrade, and to add a little weight and a smoke/vapor option kit.
Johnny
If you really want smoke, you could take up live steam modeling.
http://www.scottpages.net/ReviewOfLiveSteam.html (http://www.scottpages.net/ReviewOfLiveSteam.html)
Len
Interesting link, those Euro trains seem to get my attention for some reason,maybe a different place or time that I cannot remember.
Thanks Len.
Johnny
Quote from: brokenrail on January 12, 2016, 10:49:31 PM
Interesting link, those Euro trains seem to get my attention for some reason,maybe a different place or time that I cannot remember.
Thanks Len.
Johnny
That's British steam, not "Euro steam." How dare you!!!!! ;D
Calling Brits "Euros" will get you the same result as when Euros call Canadian "American".
Cheers
Roger T.
Quote from: rogertra on January 12, 2016, 11:39:57 PM
...will get you the same result as when Euros call Canadian "American".
Cheers
Roger T.
Don't know why that would be considered as anything but a compliment :D
[/quote]
Calling Brits "Euros" will get you the same result as when Euros call Canadian "American".
[/quote]
Like calling a Southerner a "Yankee"! HAWHAWHAWHAWHAW !
North Americans sometimes called Canucks .BEST neighbors you could have.They sound just like the folks from the Michigan upper peninsula called Youpers.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 13, 2016, 07:03:28 AM
Quote from: rogertra on January 12, 2016, 11:39:57 PM
...will get you the same result as when Euros call Canadian "American".
Cheers
Roger T.
Don't know why that would be considered as anything but a compliment :D
As soon as I can stop laughing, I'm gonna call you. That may take a few days however :P ;D
Sid
I am glad I could furnish you with some merriment and anxiously await your call, my CANADIAN friend ;)
Quote from: Trainman203 on January 13, 2016, 05:01:55 PM
Like calling a Southerner a "Yankee"! HAWHAWHAWHAWHAW !
Who makes that mistake ???
Maybe an Englishman in England, addressing a visitor from Dixie. :o :D
WOW! smoke units are so bad they start international "incidents". I guess you guys are right smoke units are bad! :D
This thread obviously derailed......