I am new to the board. I have a question about the wiring colors Bachmann uses for its locos. I don't know if this has been addressed before, and I apologize if it has. In any event, the wiring colors don't appear to be NMRA standard. For example, I have an HO Ten-Wheeler and the wires leading to the tender light are orange and yellow; they should be yellow and blue. The rail pickup wires should be red and black. In the tender, they are red and brown. I'm trying to isolate the wires that run to the motor, which should be orange and gray, but as I said, the orange wire is already being used for the rear lamp. Consequently, I'm finding it difficult to figure out which wires go with which functions once they head off to the loco itself. Any answers to this puzzle would be greatly appreciated.
Ken Currie
There are a set of wiring standards when it comes to DCC, and colours is a part of that document. What you will find on most stuff out there steamwise, with the exception of red and black being the feeder colours, is anyone's say. Bachmann has their own colour preference, but in my time, I have seen just about any combination used. Your best bet is to never assume anything; always ring out a wire to find out where it goes. This can save a lot of tears, swears, and a possible "kit-bash" in the true sense of the word!
RIch
The Old Reprobate!
I just installed a new four wire and a two wire harness with plugs in a HO Richmond 4-4-0. The colors are not according to the NMRA standard. Only the two wire plug (rail pickup) was correct. I had to check the wires with an ohm meter and think very carefully about what I am doing to get the correction connections. It could be costly if I did not pay attention.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Bachmanntenderconnectors.jpg)
Rich
Check NMRA RP-9.1.1 Guess this is the way it is supposed to be, but as you mentioned it's anyone's say.
http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/rp911.html
Download the PDF file.
Bob
I assume we are talking ONLY about DCC here as the standard applies only to DCC. And even then the colours do not have to apply to locomotives that come DCC on board. Bottom line, electrons are colour blind. Wire colours are only to help us identify decoder leads when we need to hardwire one.
I think of the colors as a convenience, not as a hard fast rule. Whether I'm connecting 12 flying wires of a linear current booster for a solar pump or just the lights on a trailer, the color chart is nice to have, but I always double check the leads before activating the circuit.
Manufacturers of any electrical device should include a schematic detailing not only the color but the function of each connection. But in all cases the function takes precedence, especially in imported products.
Bob
Thanks for all the input. Electrons may indeed be color blind, but NMRA-standard decoders are not. I'm having to hardwire in a decoder because the circuit board for the 4-6-0 came with 4 (count 'em) capacitors which messed up the Lenz decoder I tried to plug in to the DCC ready jack (I understand from Tony's Train Exchange that I'm not alone when it comes to this problem). Now that I have a denuded circuit board and a dead Lenz decoder, I figured it was best to bypass the circuit board altogether in favor of a new decoder.
Really sorry to hear that. I have used the PC board but I always snip out the capacitors using a rail nipper. At least the rail nipper I have can snip out SMT capacitors. I also remove the two inductors. They look like resistors. I then solder a piece of wire in place of the inductors.
I then solder in the decoder to the board watching color codes on the decoder instructions and the drawing I made of the original decoder to PC board installation.
That way I can utilize the lighting resistors that are on the board because of LEDs.
I also check everything using a ohm meter before powering up. Actually, I check using the ohm meter quite often during any installation.
I have done the hard wire method on installation also.
If you have not done it, pickup an inexpensive digital voltmeter. Many decent ones go for about $20.00.
Cheers
Rich
Will someone clue me in on the problem? Get a cheap VOM-or even just a continuity tester and check the wires, point to point (with no power on). As I said before, this is no daunting task. six wires on the loco, and a decoder with a schematic-oh and don't forget the onions...
Quote from: currieken on April 12, 2008, 05:01:27 PM
Now that I have a denuded circuit board and a dead Lenz decoder, I figured it was best to bypass the circuit board altogether in favor of a new decoder.
I assume you are aware of Lenz's warranty, one of the best in the business. But if not, go to the link below, then click on WARRANTY.
http://www.lenz.com/support/index.htm (http://www.lenz.com/support/index.htm)
Rich
I'm counting here, 2 wires for the pickups, 2 wires for the motor, 2 for the headlight (the blue as common), what about the tail light.??
Question: Is the blue wire common for both the headlight and tail light? I assume it is since they do call it "common".
Also, the Bachmann decoder has 8 wires, but one is not used, something about an optional "function". I need to install a decoder in a Mogul, never installed one before so I'm dubious about isolating the pickups and motor. I'm sure once I get the thing and take it apart it should be fairly easy. Any tips or tricks I should know about?
Are you familiar with the tiny plugs/sockets available from Micro Mark, and are there better ones available.? I'd like to get some sets from Bachmann but don't think they will supply them. I think they call them "connector 1" and "connector two". Radio Shack has wire, I'm thinking 22 - 24 gauge about right
I have some left over pc boards from some vandy tenders I could use, so maybe I can just get the Bachmann plug in decoder.
Ken: Sorry to pirate your thread, but I guess my questions are on topic.
Bob
Bob;
Blue is indeed the common wire-at least in the decoders I use; Tsunami.
Tsunami has an excellent site and some really good info to download; try it.
As far as Micro Mark's plugs, just watch your ampacity rating on some of this stuff. I know they are great for small lighting loads.
Six wires are from: two feed (usu. black and red); two for headkight; blue and yellow, two for motor; orange and brown.
The tender isn't run from the engine, so I only counted on six conductors. What?!!! Steam isn't the only loco? Hmmmmmmm...news to me...
Decoders range in function from two on up. I am not familiar with bachmann, as I yank them as well as their sockets, and install Tsunami sound anyway.
Do keep in mind that the blue conductor is going to be the common conductor for the lighting functions, and the "extra" wire is just that-an extra function, such as a mars light or (if you are into self-torture) doing marker lamps on steamers.
Rich
The ol' reprobate
i Bob
I will try not to be too technical. I have been an electronics tech and machine mechanic for many years and I often forget some people are not.
The blue wire is common for both lights. The yellow is for the tender light. A wire is soldered to the blue lead and goes to the tender light.
In all my conversions, the decoder is in the tender, thus only six wires between the loco and tender.
The blue lead is also used with the Optional 8th lead, which is #3 on the NMRA connector.
You can get, I Have, the two wire and four wire harness from Bachmann. I doubt you could get the matching ones for the loco, though I have not tried.
The plug in decoder would be the way to go. Right now I have a PC board from a Spectrum 4-4-0 at my computer. All the solder points are labeled.
I only use the Micro-Tsunami which only has two functions. The standard Tsunami has four functions. If you go with any SoundTraxx products, there is a Yahoo SoundTraxx group with a lot of information in the Files and Photos sections.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soundtraxx/
Yahoo also has NCE, Digitrax and Lenz DCC groups. No doubt some others.
Good DCC info
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/parts.htm
Litchfield is a good source. I buy wire, decoders, speakers connectos from them. Free shipping over $50. Bruce is very helpful plus he is on the SoundTraxx Yahoo group.
http://litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php?cat=170
Tony's Trains is also good.
Most people use #28 or #30 wire for decoder installs.
I think I confused someone with tender drives. We geezers are easy to confuse.
Here is what I have done.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/4-4-0mods.jpg)
Rich
He's right: Yellow is tender. White is foward. I am losing my touch, so I think I will shut up from now on. No more posts.
Rich
Quote from: currieken on April 11, 2008, 02:38:03 PM
I am new to the board. I have a question about the wiring colors Bachmann uses for its locos. I don't know if this has been addressed before, and I apologize if it has. In any event, the wiring colors don't appear to be NMRA standard. ...
Ken Currie
Ken,
Locomotives:As you now know, Bachmann has not used a consistent wire color code to identify a wire’s function in their locomotives. You must verify a wire’s function. This is done by continuity testing. Of course this task is made easier if there is an 8-pin NMRA socket wired to the PCB. However, check all wires as a function match with one color does not indicate a function match with any other wires.
Decoders:The wires attached to the Bachmann decoder do follow the NMRA DCC color scheme.
The NMRA DCC wire color code Recommended Practice notwithstanding always double check the wiring guide provided with any manufacturer’s decoder.
RichG:
No problem on the technical, I'm well versed in electronics.
What do you use for connectors between the loco and tender? I've been through Mouser, Allied and many others. The only tiny ones I found are at Micro Mark, they are only 2 pin but would work fine for the headlights.
I don't need the male tender set, just the female plugs/wires from the loco, but would gladly buy them in matched sets. I'm thinking these are standard connectors that must be available somewhere.
Yes, I realize that some locos have the 4 and 2 pin male set on the loco, but since I'm doing it from scratch I prefer it on the tender, like my connies, much easier to make the bracket.
As I mentioned, I have 3 left over light boards with decoder sockets from Vandys, so I do have the option of plug in decoders. I plan to use Bachmann decoders and leave the capacitors intact.
Bob
Quote from: r.cprmier on April 13, 2008, 04:25:14 PM
I am losing my touch, so I think I will shut up from now on. No more posts.
Rich
No more posts? Rich, say it isn't so! Don't let a mistake get you down. I think we should all get together, bring our mistakes and have a mibarbeque. Even drink some mibeer, or misodas if you prefer. That's mi solution.
from another old guy who's gears still mesh but manage to slip a cog occasionally.
At the tender age of 69, my major problem is the brain gears aren't always meshing with the mouth gears, and sometimes the foot gears get tangled up in the tonsil gears. In ranching terms we call it "Hoof in mouth" disease.
Remember the old song "Dem Bones".?...How about this: Oh, the foot bone connected to the jaw bone.....la la la...
Bob