I recently bought an O-27 Hudson and was giving it a break in run. After 20 minutes the engine felt very warm and the motor felt almost too hot to touch. Is this normal. I also have the Williams turbine and it never got that hot.
Dear Lenny,
Sounds like it needs to be lubricated. Try that, and if it's still running hot, I'd contact your dealer or the service department.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
I lubed it up per your instructions and that seemed to work but after about a half hour it starts to slow down and then stops. I check the moter and again it was too hot to touch. Is there anything else I should do or should I just take it to the service department?
What transformer are you using? I bought a Pennsy Hudson a couple of months back and had the same problem. I took the shell off and checked the grease on the gears and after a good lubing its performance improved some. About one week later I retired my KW and replaced it with an MTH Z-4000. What a difference. The Z packs plenty of power (400 watts) and my Hudson runs like a champ. Your transformer may not be putting out enough power for the motor to run as it should.
Cobrabob.
I am using a MRC Dual Power. I also tried it on a KW and a new CW-80. Same issue on all transformes.
Cobrabob did you also have the issue with the moter getting very hot. At first the engine runs fine but after 15-20 minutes it starts to slow down and then stops. I touch the motor and it is too hot to touch. Sorry to stay on this topic but I have about 10 ten Williams engines now and have never had an issue with any of them. I was thinking about getting the Berk but I want to make sure that this is just an issue with this particular engine and not the new Williams steamers in general.
Quote from: lennyski on January 10, 2010, 11:45:06 AM
I am using a MRC Dual Power. I also tried it on a KW and a new CW-80. Same issue on all transformes.
Have you tried using a newer transformer(less than four years old) with 100 watts or more single train transformers?
Forget about using the KW or CW-80(a.k.a. Lionel's problem child) or the MRC transformers as they may not have the right kind of power output or enough output in watts to power your engine. The KW is rated at 190 watts input power so there may be as much as 75 watts to the track. MRC transformers from what I have seen are two train transformers rated at 120 watts, so that is only about 60 watts to each track.
You may be surprised at what a decent transformer can do for your engine.
Lee F.
I think the MRC has 0-21 Volts per handle and is rated at 270 Watts so I don't think that is the problem. But just to be sure I am going to try to take this back to the store this weekend and run it on their layout. They have both a new zw and and a z-4000 hooked up. Thanks for the suggestion.
Quote from: lennyski on January 12, 2010, 07:55:57 AM
I think the MRC has 0-21 Volts per handle and is rated at 270 Watts so I don't think that is the problem. But just to be sure I am going to try to take this back to the store this weekend and run it on their layout. They have both a new zw and and a z-4000 hooked up. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am not into electronics but I have a good knowledge of basic electrical circuits. The MRC may have(not for sure but just a guess, as I don't have an MRC transformer) some kind of electronic part inside(diode or capacitor) the transformer that might inpose a small D.C. voltage to the tracks, so check out another type of transformer before sending your unit to be repaired.
Lee F.
Concerning my PRR Hudson, I had trouble with my motor, and yes it did get too hot. When I took it apart and lubed it that seemed to help some. It would run fine at first and then it would slow down. It would stop at the farthest spot from my KW transformer connection. It would not pull a long train, 12 or more cars, with out getting hot. Lubing and oiling, ever so sparingly, did help as noted before. I was diappointed at first since the Hudson was my first WBB steam power. All of my WBB diesels ran flawlessly. Ofcourse all of my WBB diesels are dual motored and pull like a John Deere! Once I got my MTH Z-4000 I noticed that all problems with my Hudson completely disappeared. That is why I think that a good powerful modern transformer could be the answer to your troubles. P.S., I love that engine now, it looks awesome, and does it effortlessly, pulling six Pennsy heavyweight passenger cars. ;) Good Luck!
Cobrabob.
Dear Lenny,
Seems we've eliminated a few things, and my gut feel is that poor track connections and bad pickup rollers cause lack of power more often than an underpowered transformer. Bottom line is to check the AC voltage at the tracks under the loco. Is there any way to get an amp reading (ammeter on transformer or AC ammeter installed in-line)?
What are we left with?
Bad reverser board
Shorted motor windings
Bad motor bearings
Misaligned motor
Binding in drive
Blocked ventilation
Of these, which can you or your place of purchase fix?
About all I would/could do would be to remove the (worm geared) motor to see if there is binding in the drive (will the loco roll easy and free w/ motor removed?) and see that air is circulating around the motor.
After that, returning it to WBB or an authorized repair facility is about all there is left.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hi Joe,
I have an ampmeter on my transformer and it is only using less than 2 amps. The funny thing is it does run great for about 15 minutes or so. I don't think this has anything to do with the track or track connections. It doesn't lose speed farther away from the transformer and my other Williams steamer runs great. I will take out the moter and see if the engine runs smoothly like you said. If that isn't the issue I am taking it back to the hobby shop this weekend.
CobraBob,
For 15 minutes this is my favorite engine too. I have mostly Lionel Jr engines but they just don't seem to have the look and heft of this engine. I am really hoping that the hobby shop figures this out. I have a few Williams diesels also and they all run great so I am thinking ths is just this engine. If they can figure this out I will probably get the WBB Berk and then just give away all the Lionels.
Thanks for all your help Joe, CobraBob, and Philly reading. I will check in next week and let you know how I made out.
are these can motors in these steamers?
::)As a new member to the forum, I just want to say hi to everyone. In regard to the overheating of the can motor in the 027 Hudson engines, I have found that a high wattage transformer i.e. 100+ watts, is helpful. I have also discovered that some of the modern transformers, particularly the MRC types do not output a sinewave AC current, but instead output a pulsed AC current which means that the full output of the transformer is applied to the engine with each pulse. Transformers such as the MTH Z-4000 or even the MRC dual power 270 watt transformers do output a pure sinewave AC current and I have noticed that on my layout using either transformer, my 027 Hudson engine runs very well with no slow down or overheating of the can motor. I have found this to be true of other can motored equipped engines operated under the above scenario.
hello wdg.......
i have a williams berkshire and williams sd-45 upon using the MRC "pure power AC" transformer,this model has output of sustained 130 watts and the manual says on "features" "pure AC sine wave output assures compatibillty with most AC sounds systems" so i guess that means this MRC does put out AC sine waves. I have run the berkshire with 4 car 60 foot madison cars and one boxcar for long as 40 minutes and the berkshire never got even lukewarm the same goes for the sd-45's. My layout is a TINY 4 by 8 foot. I had this transformer for 5 years no troubles at all. Just make sure check out the engine before running it for first time with fresh grease, oil and the gear meshing ok and no mech. binds.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
I have W/WBB Sd45 and 90's. I run TMCC conv. TMCC in Conv. does have a chopped sine. but in Conv. and using a Cab -1 and Poweremaster, you can set things like stall custom for each engine. Problem is, you have to reset it for each engine change. But you can custom power you conv. items, open frame of can.
It has been a while since I brought up this topic. I never got a chance to take this back to Bachmann and it is packed away until Black Friday. I will run it then and see how it goes. I am using the MRC Dual Pure Power with Sine Wave so I am 99% sure that is not the problem. I couldn't resist going ahead and buying the Berk though. I was going to wait to make sure this wasn't a problem with the WBB steamers in general but I was at the hobby store and saw the LV version. I did run this for over an hour before I packed everything away and no issues. I will check back after I run the Hudson and let you know if I am still having issues. I am just hoping that is was a lubrication and break in issue.
i ran my pink steamer tonight & i tried using a mth z-750. it would run good on higher voltages, but the low speed wasn't there. i put my lionel zw 275 back on for power & it ran a lot better at low speeds. i'm not sure why? with the mth z 750 on a slower speed, it would go around a few times then after each time around it would get slower & slower until it would stop, & not always in the same place. with the zw 275, just getting the power on about 6 (soon enought to light the bulb) it would pull & never slow down. i like the horn botton a lot better on my mth z 750, but that's about it. the zw has a sweet spot that i have to find to get the whistle to work.
I using the post war Lionel 275 watt ZW & a 250 watt Z transformer and two MTH Z-1000 transformers with my Williams engines and have not had a problem with any engine slowing down or heating up.
I would suggest using a transformer with 100 watts or more to the track. In my opion stay away from MRC transformers when using Williams engines.
Don't know for sure but have heard that the newer Lionel ZW transformers(not the brand new ZW with meters) can fall apart while using them, the handle comes out of the transformer is the number one complaint I have read about on CTT forum. Second complaint I have read about is that the power can jump from output A over to output D without warning and send one of your trains off the layout at higher speeds when it suddenly gets a burst of high power to it.
Lee F.
hello phillyreading.....
to stay away from MRC transformers? I am using the pure sine wave AC 130 watt MRC transformer and i dont have any problems of the wiliams engines (motors overheating any time) and i run them about 40 mins to hour at a time. the engines are a williams berkshire and sd-45 they both just barely get lukewarm. I had this transformer for about 6 years now. no problems with the MRC transformer either. BUT strongly agree with you that anyone running the williams engine should use least 100 watts or VA's or more.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Tiffany,
Not everyone who uses an MRC transformer may have problems, but I have read of a few complaints on CTT forum about not working correctly with Williams TB-2 and also not working correctly with MTH PS-2 engines. Hopefully your MRC don't give you problems.
It is like dealing with cars, some people love Fords and have a decent car for years and some people get a lemon and hate Fords and sell off the Ford product.
A 100 watt transformer is not always needed, but will help with the newer engines with power draw and whistle/horn units. I ran one of my older GP-9's on a 45 watt transformer, didn't go 100% fast but was a decent speed.
Lee F.
I am using the MRC Pure Power with pure sine wave and 270 Watts. I think you should be okay as long as you are using the sine wave and the 270 Watts should be plenty for running 2 sets of trains. Do you know of anyone having issues with these types of MRC transformers?
Also I picked up a set of UP grey Alcos. These Williams engines are getting addictive. You can't beat the price for the quality you get if you are running conventional.
Can't wait for Thanksgiving so I can set up the Christmas layout.
Hello Lennyski..........
I am using the MRC 130 VA's or Watts transformer model # AH501 and had it for 6 years so far no problems running the williams engines ( I have berkshire and sd-45) this transformer is a single trottle type and puts out "pure sine wave" AC. the berkshire pulls a 4 car 60 foot madison cars and a boxcar (both are williams). My williams engine's can motors never got pass lukewarm after running for 40 mins to a hour on my TINY 4 by 8 layout. Just wanted everyone to know....... SMILE
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany