One hour Documentary tonight on the History Channel. It might be of interest to some of you.
Redtail67
Quote from: Redtail67 on April 07, 2008, 03:11:55 PM
One hour Documentary tonight on the History Channel. It might be of interest to some of you.
Redtail67
what time?
8pm Eastern Time
8pm Pacific Time
7pm Central
6pm Mountain Time
On Directv, mountain time for the program is 6:00 and again at 10:00. It took a bit of negotiation, as my wife had to decide which of her favorite shows to miss, O'Reilly at 6 or Murder She Wrote at 10. Jessica won. :D
I really want to watch it twice, but that is no stretch, and our recorder is on the fritz.
Bob
Red
Thanks for informing us about the program. I missed it the last time, about 10 more minutes and I will be glued to the TV. I'm sure we will have some interesting questions and comments after the show.
Bob
Impressive! Now you "proto" guys have a new challenge.
Imagine if they could double the speed and break the sound barrier. BOOM. :D
^Umm, Bob, first off, 6 feet per second is just under 4.1 mph. And second, what are you talking about? ???
Apparently you didn't watch the documentary, which is the topic of this thread.
According to the TV program, a French train set a record of 354mph.
I deleted any further numbers from my post, everyone can do their own math.
Bob
The USA is way behind the other countries in Passenger Rail Service. They put all their eggs in the Airlines basket. They showed the short sighted view held by the various Administrations of the importance of Rail Service both freight and passenger.
They let the officers of the great fallen flags run their roads into the ground and rob the money for golden parachutes and outrageous pay. They permitted abandonments and neglected maintainence of extremly important routes.
These outright stupid decisions by rail management and a turned head of the U.S. government have led us to be the last on passenger transportation. The friegt service is nothing short of a joke as the many years of neglect and investment are coming home to roost.
A very aggressive rail passenger service improvement program should have been started 20 years ago. The delay will cost billions of dollars more than if they had pursued it years ago as warned by the transportation experts of the time.
Look at the abandonment of the double track at Colorado Springs now its to late it will nerver come back and the delays in the freight operation because of that one stupid idea had already cost millions. It is also one of the main reasons of opposition to passenger along the front range than is needed now and will be one heck of a proplem in 10-15 years.
One has to marvel at the high speed service all over Europe as well as Japan. We on the other hand can not average 40 mph Chicago to LA. on a daily basis.
It will be the resurgence of passenger service on dedicated track that will go a long long way on relieving congestion on the highways and cut a big dent in the importation and reliance on oil in the future.
Redtail67
Nobody ever claimed that either politicians or upper level management ever were blessed with foresight or for that matter real intelligence . Must be that thin air at the top . Look how long it take them to figure out the fact that our dependence on Foreign Oil is dangerous . You'd have thought the mess in the 1970's would have sent a message.
I was quite impressed with the loco maintenance facilities at CSX. The do take great care and pride in their equipment.
UP has a different philosophy, run it till it pukes then scrap it. You can't believe the beat up worn out coal cars that move through here. The locos look like they haven't been cleaned in years.
But here is the irony of it. I had stock in CSX that was stagnant. I traded it for UP stock and the value has climbed steadily. I think that is due to the fact that here in the largest coal producing area of the nation, UP has no competition. Santa Fe doesn't want the coal line, they have enough problems keeping up with the contracts they have.
I think the Marvels' statement regarding fuel consumption comparsion between rail and trucks was inaccurate. I don't recall the numbers but they didn't seem logical.
Bob
It was the attitude of more profit(less maintenence) that does pay off for the share holder but at some point the expenses will be triple to replace and restore and operational fleet of cars or locomotives. That time that same stock will fall to the floor and the road will face bankrupcy and the government (the taxpayer, us) will be forced to bail them out. It is a scam that been run on the taxpayers for 30 years over and over. The fat cats running the railroad retire mega millionaires and could give s*5& about the cost to us to pay for their style of management.
Many cloaim they were stupid and inept managers while its just the opposite. They figured out the game a long time ago. Just how to retire rich beyond belief and have the government pay for all the money they robbed from the compaines they were in charge of.
In todays world where all the roads have merged into 4 main carriers of the nations freight the problem will surface with staggering cost to us.
Some roads are in fact better than others on upkeep and investment into the future others totaly ignore it.
There is no mode of transportation that can move freight as cheaply as rail none i repeat none.
Study after study has been done to justify the subsidy to airlines and to trucks and all clearly show that rail is the cheapest way to move freight any distance.
I was a party to many studies as to the cost to move the coal on BNSF fron Wyoming to Texas the cost to move 1 ton of coal and the amount fuel used by modern locomotives to move that coal was unbelieveable. Why? UNIT TRAINS.
The amount of trucks and the time as well as amout of fuel for them to move that same coal that same distance was staggering. Not to mention the logistics and the fact that the highway system could not possibly handle it.
The cost per ton mile of the fuel and the amount of fuel per ton mile is indeed unbelievably low for modern trains. Those figures were more than likely right.
Redtail67
It was the ton per miles per gallon for the trucks that didn't seem right, the estimate seemed too high.
Bob
Nobody ever claimed that either politicians or upper level management ever were blessed with foresight or for that matter real intelligence.
Let's get one thing straight here: Intelligence is the possession of knowledge/information and not neccessarily the ability to utilize it constructively. Stupidity is the wilful abandonment of logic and action based upon moral/wisdomly conviction; even though one knows the consequences; but to tailor the results to feather their own nests with ill-gotten gains. Morality? Where?!
Now, with that said; we are dealing with a bunch of selfish inconsiderate, immoral condescending SOBs who don't give a randy rat's rear about you or I. All they care about is themselves, their damned dirty money, and thier wealth. Nice! What was that about the "superior animal"? My personal feelings are that most if not all politicians fall into that category, as well as most "lawmakers" and attorneys. What are we to them? No more than a voting constituency-padding to ensure their tenure, and all they have to do is toss in a little BS; most people out there, although very nice, seem to just lap it up. Take a look at our present run at the presidency, then come back and we'll talk. Ask na outsider, like Tim, Roger, et al, who get to view the States as just another country. You might just be shocked at what you hear!
For the public good...Bull****!!! Rome is burning, my friends.
Rich
(the old reprobate)
As a retired railroad department head, funny, I never ran onto any filthy rich vice presidents on other railroads and on my railroad the union train crews made more than the Vice President. My department was responsible for marketing, sales, pricing, interline divisions (splitting the freight charges between railroads), and freight claims. I therefore was also responsible for figuring out what it cost to provide the service. Well managed railroads do provide a good return for their shareholders, but these are not the managers and executives, they are you and your neighbors if you or they have any kind for government or education pension plan.
So, those of you who really want to "screw the shareholders" are screwing government employees and other folks with pension plans far more than "fat cats on Wall Street", as these pension plans are by far the largest owners of stocks in America today.
Third Rail;
As an investor in the stock market among other ventures, I have no intention of "screwing the investor". I do not know what railroad you worked for, but have you taken a good hard look at the New Haven et al
as it
was-say-from about 1900 to 1968? Do so, and then come back and we can talk about rapacious board members. I don't give a hang in hell who says what, if there is a chance to make nefarious money, ther are a lot of people out there with the lack of scruples to do so-I do believe they are known as "dirt-bags"... Among other titles...maybe the Latin Rattus...
Rich
The old reprobate
thirdrail you must have worked for one of the various shortlines or worked and retired before the 1980 era.
I personally saw the Bonus check issued to the Superintendent for two years straight and thet were both 4 times my annual earnings as a Locomotive Engineer who worked 7 days week.
The director of labor relations recieved over 400,000 in a Bonus for one year and all he did was play golf and entertain (4 martini lunches)
Redail67
Back in the late 40s the Santa Fe had trains that ran near 100 MPH. The speed limit on the 4-8-4s and the 3460 class 4-6-4s was 100 MPH.
When they ran the Flying Yankee on the B&M, its run time was an hour faster than the current train over the same route. WHAT! They trying to save on fuel costs??? Bring back Mcginnis and his fellow crooks
Yep it is amzing how the railroads have changed..service is the last tjing on their minds. They want unit trains and CALENDER based not TIMETABLE schedules.
I asked my brother, who worked for ATSF out of Pueblo, when I was going to hire out on the Colorado Southern just what kind of scheduled operation they had. To this he replied "They operate by the calender!" I said what do you mean to which he replied "Theyt call them on the 1st and hopefully they will get there on the 2nd!"
I had been working for one of the best operations the ATSF had out of Temple, Texas where "TIME" was everything. "TIME literaly was life or death and I as an Engineer wore two watches one a pocket watch and one a wrist watch. Schedules of the Passenger trains had to be respected and your failure to respect them could cost you your job. Time of the Train Orders concerning the "HOTSHOTS" in the no block parts of the operation had to be respected and if not could cost you as well as others their lives.
We ran 79 on 90lb rail and 112lb rail that was changed out to 136lb and TCS (known as CTC on most roads) was installed all the way. We had 120 MPH Scheduled time fromn Bellville Yard to Rosenburg for passenger and permitted freights could run 90MPH with ATS ATC cut in.
The last time I looked they were running 55 MPH top Speed down there. Hell even the Transcon went to 55MPH..just unbelieveable to a Railroad man.
The ATSF smoked the rails going to California since the 1930's now they want to run 10,000 ft trains 10-30 MPH just unbelieveable. Ft. Madison area had the reputation of running the fastest operation the ATSF had. Christ they have ruined it now compared to then.
Bosses Bosses everywhere but not a Railroad man in sight!
There was a day that any Road Foreman of Engines could and would run any train anytime ( you respected him as one of the best) now most will not because they can not run them. They lack not only the skills but the courage it takes to operate at high speeds. No one respects them.
Redtail67