You do not show the radius for DCC 2-8-4 Berk. Will it work on 18in.
I sure would like other steamers but you do not show what will work.
Thanks
Bob
Bob,
Since it is a Standard and does not say "Minimum 22" radius," I assume that it will take an 18"radius. How good it looks might be another thing.
Gene
Dear Bob,
It will run on well-laid 18" radius, but, as Gene says, 22" is preferred.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Bob,
The Consolidation, Russian Decapod, Ten Wheeler, and American(Bachmann Spectrum) all handle 18" curves and don't look real bad on them.
Gene
It would be nice if Bachmann would test these new releases and publish the results in the specs.
Assuming that i had an older Niagera that runs fine on 18in i purchased the new Dcc 4-8-4 northern and it did not derail but slowed down alot going around the 18in radius. Had to sell it on ebay.
I just purchased the Bli 4-8-4 Santa fe and will see how it works. They publish in the spec for 18 inch.
I also made the same mistake with the 2-10-2 Dcc. I could have lived with it slowing down some but the driver would oscillate and slap the rail makeing a hammering noise even on the streight. Sent it to repair and they returned it just as bad as sent in. Sent it in second time and they replaced it with a 4-8-2 heavy mountain. I have 4 of these that work fine at all speeds.
From everything i see the IHC 2-10-2 is good for 18 inch. Would have liked the Bachmann.
I have a BLI M1a and N&w J that work just fine on 18 inch as well as a AHM/Riverrossi Berk.
I would purchase more Bachmann steamers if i knew they would work for sure. Just tired of testing them and returning or selling them on ebay.
Bob
Bob,
Pardon me, but you may be trying to get more locomotive than your layout will take. It just so happens that I have a Bachmann 2-8-4 and it currently is parked on the curve going into Hannahville from the west. This curve is 30" and the swing of the cab is obviously excessive. Just running through the curve it is not that noticable, but sitting on it, it sure is. I have to reconfigure my curved trestle bridge as a BLI C&O T 2-10-4 traveling eastbound took out one of the fire barrels.
I think it would be a good idea for Bachmann and other builders to put "minimum radius" on the box if it is more than 18," but I don't think they should be held accountable because they build something that requires a wider curve.
Gene
I'm with Gene on getting the boxes labeled with minimum radius info.
We get asked all the time at the LHS where my repair shop is located, "Will this loco go around the 18in curves that came with my set?" So we have to set up a temporary test track to find out, because there's nothing on or in the box to tell us one way or the other.
Len
I just purchased a 2-10-4 and in the box was a sheet of paper with the instructions that it should not be run on anything less than 22"
Don
The track minimums mostly are like this. small 2 & 3 axle steam 15", 4-6-2s and 2-8-0s, 18", large steam like 4-8-2's 2-8-4's and 2-10-4's would be better suited for 22' radius and above. Of course, if you can get a 2-10-4 to run on 18", its probably because your track is good. All steam looks better on larger radii, just hide the small radius curves behind buildings or under mountains and lead into them with broader curves.
Grumpy,
Several locos now come with a sheet of paper inside the box saying "Use on 22" radius or higher." The problem with that is you don't know that unitl the box is opened. Of course one should do one's homework, but it still would be nice to have minimum radius greater than 18" printed on the box itself "HOscale steam locomotive - minimum radius, 22"; perfoms best at 24" or greater."
Gene
While you are at it, you might as well include turnouts as well... a lot of people don't think about them as being a source of problems radius-wise, but they can be...
dlm
The Bachmann 2009 catalog lists "best performance" radius for each locomotive.
So far the only locos i have had a problem with in the 18" turns are the 2-10-4 and the 2-10-0. Both had to fight their way around the corner. I always have to remember when purchasing loco the each mfg is different and some will navigate the corners very nicely and others won't
Don..
We won't buy any steam locomotive with a trailing truck for our layout. On 18" curves, if the distance from the rear driver to the cab end is more than about 1-1/4" it looks bad and gives the engineer whiplash, not to mention yanking the tender off the rails. It's a personal thing, so I'm not trying to sway others from using the trailing truck locos if they are satisfied with them.
Quote from: danmerkel on March 28, 2009, 09:29:11 PM
While you are at it, you might as well include turnouts as well... a lot of people don't think about them as being a source of problems radius-wise, but they can be...
dlm
The radius that Dan is referencing is called the "Radius of the Closure Rail" or "RCR".
John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation, 3rd Edition" has a chart with various numbered turnouts in various scales and their critical dimensions.
The
RCR is the
tightest radius turn that a loco or other rolling stock will see on the
divergent route. From Figure 6-4, pg. 78, Armstrong:
Note: Atlas #4 is actually a #4-1/2
HO scale
Turnout number, RCR(inches)
4, 15"
4-1/2, 22"
5, 26"
6, 43"
8, 67"
It is a good idea to match the RCR with your layout's minimum radius.
If RCR smaller than minimum radius curve, layout's minimum radius is lowered.
If RCR larger than minimum radius, too much real estate (length) is taken up by the turnout.
If I were to err, it would be to the next (higher) turnout number...
Hope this helps,
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Recently noticed that on the Hornby web site they list radius and length of each model.
Quote from: Joe Satnik on March 29, 2009, 07:57:35 AM
Quote from: danmerkel on March 28, 2009, 09:29:11 PM
While you are at it, you might as well include turnouts as well... a lot of people don't think about them as being a source of problems radius-wise, but they can be...
dlm
The radius that Dan is referencing is called the "Radius of the Closure Rail" or "RCR".
John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation, 3rd Edition" has a chart with various numbered turnouts in various scales and their critical dimensions.
The RCR is the tightest radius turn that a loco or other rolling stock will see on the divergent route.
From Figure 6-4, pg. 78, Armstrong:
Note: Atlas #4 is actually a #4-1/2
HO scale
Turnout number, RCR(inches)
4, 15"
4-1/2, 22"
5, 26"
6, 43"
8, 67"
It is a good idea to match the RCR with your layout's minimum radius.
If RCR smaller than minimum radius curve, layout's minimum radius is lowered.
If RCR larger than minimum radius, too much real estate (length) is taken up by the turnout.
If I were to err, it would be to the next (higher) turnout number...
Hope this helps,
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
The NMRA site says to consider a #4 as an 18"and a #6 as a 22"
i have a 4-8-4 santa fe .gotta keep it on the 22" rad .doesn't like the 18"rad . like it said above well laid 22"or better .my track isn't anchored yet .and my want became over my needs .but i like the engine . when i can expand .i will run it more . have fun keep the hobby alive !!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Joe Satnik on March 29, 2009, 07:57:35 AM
Quote from: danmerkel on March 28, 2009, 09:29:11 PM
While you are at it, you might as well include turnouts as well... a lot of people don't think about them as being a source of problems radius-wise, but they can be...
dlm
The radius that Dan is referencing is called the "Radius of the Closure Rail" or "RCR".
<<< snip >>>
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe,
Thanks for posting that. I've never heard it and have read John's book. I'm wondering if it was in a later version. Mine was a pretty early one.
dlm
Dear uncbob,
RCR = Dimension #11
http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/rp12_3.html
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Joe Satnik on April 18, 2009, 01:07:00 AM
Dear uncbob,
RCR = Dimension #11
http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/rp12_3.html
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
This is from their beginners page under track
"It does take up more space, though, since it is longer. In sectional track. you could consider the No. 4 to be like an 18" radius curve and the No. 6 a 22". "
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/track.html
??????????
Some variation of this topic pops up regularly, and I have to say that Steam Gene is right...big locos don't belong on little layouts. Just because an engine WILL go around a small radius curve doesn't mean that we SHOULD run it on those curves. Personally, I love E-units and 85 ft. passenger cars, but in order to look good. they need 36 inch radius curves and I just don't have the room. Consequently, passenger service on my railroad is provided by a "shorty" combine tacked on the end of the daily local freight.
18 in radius sectional track exists only becuase 4X8 sheets of plywood exist. 18 inches is not some devinely inspired standard. If you are limited to a 4X8, build a switching oval. Use flex track and numbered switches to get really smooth track. Buy one REALLY good locomotive (a 4 axle diesel or a 0-6-0/2-6-0) and learn how to tune it so it runs even better. Spend some time fixing up your 40-50 ft. rolling stock to eliminate (yes, eliminate) derailments. Build structures and make scenery. By the time you have space for something bigger, you'll have learned the skills you need to build something bigger....and you'll understand why not to run a 2-10-4 on 22 in radius track even if it'll go. Just my 2 cents worth.
Rusty
Dear uncbob,
It's a beginners page with general statements explaining that a higher number turnout "takes up more space", or "is longer" than a lower number turnout.
I'll bet that you could get the author to change it.
I would edit it to something like "Just as 22" radius curves take up more space than 18" radius curves, #6 turnouts take up more space than #4 turnouts."
When you want to get down to specifics, go with RP-12 and Armstrong.
Dear rustyrails,
I've said many times over that if there is room, start with a 5' width, (=30" arm reach) which allows up to 28" radius curves. If short on room, put it up against a wall and use casters to roll it out and access the other side.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Joe Satnik on April 18, 2009, 09:28:17 AM
Dear uncbob,
It's a beginners page with general statements explaining that a higher number turnout "takes up more space", or "is longer" than a lower number turnout.
I'll bet that you could get the author to change it.
I would edit it to something like "Just as 22" radius curves take up more space than 18" radius curves, #6 turnouts take up more space than #4 turnouts."
When you want to get down to specifics, go with RP-12 and Armstrong.
Dear rustyrails,
I've said many times over that if there is room, start with a 5' width, (=30" arm reach) which allows up to 28" radius curves. If short on room, put it up against a wall and use casters to roll it out and access the other side.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Agree on the 5'width wish I could find an extra ft but my aisle is 30"now --I may add 4 inches to my 48 so I can use a 24"radius
And as far as the 4X8 --I have a 4 by 10 and I run a 22"radius no problem so guys with 4X8 sheets of plywood don't have to use 18"--you can go 22"--you just will not have staging on the outside