Hello everyone. I'm hoping for some advice. I'm looking at a few HO-dcc entry level train sets to delve into the digital world. Bachmann has the 501? two diesel set, Walther's has a dcc with sound, and then there is a Dymamis set with a steam loco. Any takes on any of these?
Thanks ahead of time
i'd go with the dynamis. it will grow with you, some of the entry level dcc systems have very limited functionality, and you will quickly find that as you get more advanced they don't meet your needs. with dynamis, you should be able to get set up and running easily, then spend years discovering what its capabilities truly are.
Quote from: jward on September 10, 2013, 10:40:28 PM
i'd go with the dynamis. it will grow with you, some of the entry level dcc systems have very limited functionality, and you will quickly find that as you get more advanced they don't meet your needs. with dynamis, you should be able to get set up and running easily, then spend years discovering what its capabilities truly are.
The Dynamis is a good starter set, with one caveat. It is pricey to expand.
Will
star-
Welcome to model railroading and this board. I know you'll find so many aspects of this hobby that there are sure to be things which really interest you. It's worked for me for nearly 60 years.
I strongly agree with Jeff about going with Dynamis. It has significantly greater power output than EZCommand as well as allowing full DCC programming and the ability to run more trains (locomotives) at a time. Yes, it's more expensive than EZCommand but it is money very well spent. Other manufacturers have comparable entry-level DCC systems but they don't have any real advantages over Dynamis. It always makes sense to check what's out there and compare features but I think you have a very good option in Dynamis.
I can't, however, endorse your plan to buy a train set rather than getting your equipment "a la carte." Train set components tend to be a manufacturer's least expensive models, as a way to keep the overall cost down, but that typically means that operation and durability aren't the best. With Bachmann you are fortunate because the set locos are the same as what they sell individually; many other manufacturers use cheaper versions of their locos in sets. I guess I can't in good conscience advise you to avoid a train set, because they do tend to offer plenty of stuff for the money, but I will caution you against expecting the rolling stock to track perfectly have the best detail or last forever.
Bachmann's C&O set is a pretty good one, as sets go. The 2-8-0 locomotive has been around for a long time and has proven itself to be a dependable model. You'll probably get EZ Mate couplers, which are good, but I'm thinking you'll probably get plastic wheels which you'll want to change to metal sooner or later. (That's not difficult or particularly expensive but it's something which usually isn't needed with separately purchased cars.)
Don't pay anything like full price for the set. The Favorite Spot, a seller which is often cited on this board for its excellent service, has the set for $265 with shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectrum-HO-Scale-Train-Set-Dynamis-DCC-Tsunami-Sound-Commander-C-O-01401-/141056605591?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20d7a0fd97
You may need to copy and paste that address into your browser's address box, but try just clicking on it first.
-- D
I recently bought the Dynamis system and totally happy with it. I'd agree with others that entry level sets aren't the way to go if you want the best possible layout. I believe some have steel track for starters and nickel silver is a much better option.
I purchased from a local dealer who bulk imports from The Favorite Spot and I got most of my equipment at well below retail. The Dynamis was on special and nearly half price. It pays to shop around!
Expanding the Dynamis system is comparatively expensive but you may not find it necessary and you can always wait for that "special" sale to make it easy on the wallet.
To recap. Buy what you really want and need rather than a starter set that will no doubt become redundant very quickly once you expand your layout.
I suggest you research all the brands before buying. You will find they all have price advantages and disadvantages, but are not that far apart in the end once you start expanding. Some are cheap to start with, but really pricy to expand on, while others are the opposite. I started with Dynamis, but moved to something else when I had difficulty expanding. There are several threads on this forum regarding good and bad things about Dynamis, read all of them before you decide. If you are starting out and don't intend to expand, Dynamis is a good consideration, but there are many threads here about the inability of the Dynamis/Pro Box combination to use the 5 amp booster, which will limit you to the 2 amps of the Dynamis.
Do your research before you commit. Don't even think about steel track. It will give you a bad taste of model railroading for the wrong reasons, especially in DCC. In DCC, small amounts of rust on the rails may stop the engine, as DCC relies on the computer signal getting from the rails to the decoder, and small resistances can stop that signal in it's tracks (wow, a pun!). Go with Nickle Silver, even if it means not buying a train set but getting the items seperately. THey are easy to tell apart, Nickle Silver has grey roadbed while steel has black roadbed.
I am not trying to discourage you from Bachmann, quite the contrary. But when you purchase a control system and find it does not suite your needs, you may develop a poor attitude towards that manufacturer's products, when it was not their fault, but the buyers fault. Simply do your research, go to train stores and try out their display units, go to train shows and see the different brands, find other model railroaders and/or model railroad clubs in your area and see what they are using ... and why.
DCC is really great, flexible and lots of fun, but it can get costly, especially if you jump into it and then decide to start over later. How do I know this .......
Good luck
Quote from: hawaiiho on September 10, 2013, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: jward on September 10, 2013, 10:40:28 PM
i'd go with the dynamis. it will grow with you, some of the entry level dcc systems have very limited functionality, and you will quickly find that as you get more advanced they don't meet your needs. with dynamis, you should be able to get set up and running easily, then spend years discovering what its capabilities truly are.
The Dynamis is a good starter set, with one caveat. It is pricey to expand.
Will
I believe any set is pricey to expand on. The more you add or upgrade the more you will pay. ::)
I started with the Diesel commander set and the Digital commander set,both come with the EZ Command and have no regrets other than the capabilities of setting cv's and using all the functions on some of my better equipped loco's. EZ Command has allowed me to learn about DCC as I progressed on my layout and it still controls my 30x16 layout with no problems. I still run both sets on my layout and it has been a little over 5yrs. now. I do intend to upgrade to a better controller in the near future.
Jerry
jerry,
in other words you've outgrown ez command, and found it wasn't upgradable to something better. that is the thing I don't like about ezcommand, and the whole reason I recommended dynamis. all entry level dcc systems are not created equal.
it is also my understanding that the walthers trainline sets dcc system is even more limited in capability than ez command. it is made by digitrax, whose other products have an excellent reputation ( I use them myself) but whether it is upgradable to something better when the need arises I don't know.
dcc has some distinct advantages. on most systems, you can program all your locomotives to work together, and to run the way YOU want them to, regardless of gear ratio. the biggest downside I've seen is the need for clean track all the time.
QuotePosted by: jward Posted on: Today at 05:05:50 AM
Insert Quote
jerry,
in other words you've outgrown ez command, and found it wasn't upgradable to something better. that is the thing I don't like about ezcommand, and the whole reason I recommended dynamis. all entry level dcc systems are not created equal.
Yes Jeff I have finally outgrown the EZ Command and don't regret learning with it. I am ready to play with all the functions in my loco's. I know I will have as much of a learning curve as I did when I was trying to learn about the whole DCC thing (what am I talking about, you never stop learning). Yes the Dynamis would be a great starter set I agree, but I am glad I chose the EZ Command as I am a slow learner. I learn by doing and correcting my mistakes, kind of hard interpreting others knowledge sometimes so I kinda follow their advice and add my own twist into it. Wow gotta be careful doing that!
All I can recommend is follow rbryce's suggestion and do a lot of research on DCC and then follow your gut instinct. It may be wrong but it may be right, but it will make you crazy(little quote from Billy Joel, hope there is no copyright issues there ;D)
Also keep in touch here on this forum with any help you may need. Just remember not to ask for comparison's to another brand or bash another brand. These guy's rock with knowledge.
Jerry
Quote from: hawaiiho on September 10, 2013, 11:31:28 PM
The Dynamis is a good starter set, with one caveat. It is pricey to expand.
Will-
Yes, it's pricey to expand but all of the systems are. One way to beat the power upgrade cost is to use a booster other than Bachmann's unit. Bachmann's hand helds and remote units are similarly priced to other manufacturers' equipment. I personally prefer RF remote to IR but IR can work just fine in the right space (
i.e., not too huge, everything visible from at least one point,
etc.)
-- D
I have 2 layouts, one is permanent and large, and the other is a Christmas temporary layout, and also large. The permanent layout runs six trains with upwards of 16 locomotives at once while the Christmas layout runs 3 trains using 7 locomotives.
I started with the Bachmann Dynamis, then added the Pro box. Had lots of problems with the Dynamis failing to communicate in the vicinity of fluorescent lighting. Removed the fluorescent light bulbs and the problem went away. Then, when I started running more locomotives, I tried using the Bachmann 5 amp booster and it would not work with the Dynamis and Pro Box combination, only with the EZ Command units, even though Bachmann's literature said it would. After many, many threads here and trials & tests, I gave up. I sold the Dynamis and Pro Box and replaced it with the Bachmann EZ Command unit, which does work with the Bachmann 5 amp controller.
I now have an NCE SuperCab controller with 2 NCE 5 amp boosters running the permanent layout, which gives me the ability to run multiple cabs, multiple 5 amp boosters and the ability to program DCC controllers, all under florescent lighting and I am using the Bachmann EZ Controller with the Bachmann 5 amp booster on the Christmas layout, as it is very easy for visitors to operate trains. All trains are on separate tracks so no collisions can occur, and all of the Christmas layout locomotives are programmed so that no train can go fast enough to jump the track, which makes it safe for visiting children to run the trains and have a ball.
Quote from: rbryce1 on September 11, 2013, 09:12:48 AM
...... , and all of the Christmas layout locomotives are programmed so that no train can go fast enough to jump the track, which makes it safe for visiting children to run the trains and have a ball.
Ive never had/seen ho trains run that fast in the past! :o I thought it a problem unique to the larger scales. Ive never ran an ho steamer is that it? Or would you attribute this to the better power supplies?, or better locos? Back in the 60s my Gramps had to add resistors to a block on a toggled bypass to keep the kids on track. Large ceramic ones, but those things got
blisteringhot after a while, my cousin will tell you ::) (O gauge).
None of the Bachmann, Bowser or Athearn engines I have are a problem with too much speed. I have a small 2-6-0 steam engine that pulls 5 old time excursion cars, that can really crank it up, and in some of the turns can get pretty dicy. Another is a set of AC6000 diesels by Broadway Limited that can get out of control coming down a grade and entering a turn. I programmed the max speed step for the engines so they cannot do this. All the other engines I have capable of going too fast are not on the Christmas layout. ;D
Quote from: Doneldon on September 11, 2013, 07:44:31 AM
Quote from: hawaiiho on September 10, 2013, 11:31:28 PM
The Dynamis is a good starter set, with one caveat. It is pricey to expand.
Will-
Yes, it's pricey to expand but all of the systems are. One way to beat the power upgrade cost is to use a booster other than Bachmann's unit. Bachmann's hand helds and remote units are similarly priced to other manufacturers' equipment. I personally prefer RF remote to IR but IR can work just fine in the right space (i.e., not too huge, everything visible from at least one point, etc.)
-- D
I did not want to clob brands together, so I priced using all Bachmann equipment and hunted for the best prices, I could find.
The cost would have been nearly $200 dollars higher to upgrade the Dynamis, than replacing the Dynamis with a new DCC system .
I now have a 5 amp system that will probably handle anything I will ever have, PLUS I now can use my computer to program
all my DCC locomotives and accessories and run my layout. Over five years ago, Bachmann originally promised to upgrade the ProBox to permit
computer connection, but to the best of my knowledge has not done so even as yet. Though I really did not plan it, by not upgrading; but
replacing the Dynamis with an entire new system I saved money and gained more capabilities than I could get expanding the Dynamis.
Will
Will-
Truth be told, I prefer to stay with one manufacturer's goods myself. I was
merely pointing out an alternative. I'm glad you were ale to configure a system
which meets your needs without breaking the figurative bank.
-- D
First of all I'd like to thank everyone for your input, and secondly, I'm glad that I found this forum. I've always had a love for trains but am just now really getting into the hobby. I had set up a few sets for my sons when they were kids but never had the time or space to set up a really good layout. As I indicated from my first post, I'm going to set up a small layout (thank goodness for EZ track!), get a good feel for DCC, then expand to a larger layout.
I have been doing some research on EZ Command as well as Dynamis and it seems to be a 50/50 from what I've found. The one thing about EZ Command I've discovered is that the entry level controller won't utilize all of the functions that many locomotives are equipped with. I've also considered building an 'ala carte' set as well, but that can in itself be a pricey initial investment. I think I'm going to give the Dymanis set a try. I believe Donaldon mentioned the total cost of $265 via 'thefavoritespot' I already had that set on my watch list on eBay. I compared the Bachmann Digital Commander that has 2 diesels (which I"ll eventually go with - especially the blue/yellow Santa Fe), Walther's set (didn't like the sound coming from the controller) and finally the Dynamis. Even though it's priced a bit higher, it seems well worth it to me. The Baldwin steam loco is sound equipped, the turn-out is dcc coded, and even though the rolling stock might not be top quality, it is a beginning point. I figure the 56"x38" layout with the turn-out and the sound equipped dcc engine is well worth the $265.
I have a small area in my home office that I can set this up to learn how to use it. With the space I have for the time being, I'll be able to expand to 65", add a passing siding down one side, and purchase a diesel locomotive to give two trains at one time a whirl. I know it's a modest layout but it's a start.
Once again, I thank each and everyone of you for your advice/input. The beauty of model railroading is there are many ways to build it and learn as you go. Unfortunately some of the learning gets into the pocketbook but I don't think I'd go wrong with either the EZ Command or the Dynamis. I just feel that for just a few more dollars, the Dynamis has more bang for the buck on the initial investment. My long term goal is to convert an 8x12 store room in the backyard to the 'train room' I'll insulate, drywall, and put in a heat/air window unit for me and my little grandson to escape to. At best I'd run no more than 3-4 trains on that.
I'll be around often, probably with more questions. This is a great site to find for sure!
Thanks again to all of you
i think you have the right idea with regards to dcc. it is better to have something and not use it, than to want it and not have it. especially if getting it means you have to replace the entire dcc system.
like you I did my research on a dcc system long before I got anything, and went for what gave me the biggest bang for the buck. while my system is not dynamis (I don't believe it was out yet) I've had no reason to regret my choice. as my knowledge of dcc has grown, my choice had the capabilities toexplore what I was interested in.
those santa fe warbonnets are beautiful. even though I model eastern lines, I have to have at leat one santa fe on the layout. they are available for under $50 at the favourite spot.
it is my understanding that the dynamis set comes with silver series freight cars. those are the same high quality ones sold indivifually, and differ from what is in the regular sets by being properly weighted and having metal wheels. I like them a lot. they run well right out of the box.
Quote from: rbryce1 on September 11, 2013, 09:12:48 AM
..... I tried using the Bachmann 5 amp booster and it would not work with the Dynamis and Pro Box combination, only with the EZ Command units, even though Bachmann's literature said it would. ....
I now have an NCE SuperCab controller with 2 NCE 5 amp boosters running the permanent layout, ....
I find this to be a worry because if I do expand my Dynamis with a Bachmann booster I may also have problems.
I've also been thinking of going down the NCE route as an alternative and may do as you did and run two independent tracks and get the best of both worlds as I love my Dynamis controller.
it would be nice if you could mix and match components from different systems the way you can use anybody's decoders on any dcc system. for example, to use a radio throttle from say digitrax on an nce system. every system out there has its pros and cons. but once you choose a system you are pretty much stuck with it. that's why you have to do your research to see what not only fits your current and anticipated needs, but also has room to grow if your needs change. there is nothing worse than having a substantial investment in a system, then have to scrap it and buy something else because there is no upgrade path.
with dcc systems in particular, they frown on mention of other makes. so I can't elaborate on what I chose and why I chose it. but that future upgradability was one of the major factors for me. certain manufacturers (not Bachmann) had a history of coming out with new systems which were not backward compatable with their previous products.
one other thing that contributed to my decision was the number of available addresses. I've run on other people's layouts where the address of the locomotive had nothing to do with the actual locomotive number. this added confusion especially for visitors, as you had to remember which address belonged to which locomotive. with dynamis and most other dcc systems this will not be a problem as you can use the locomotive number as your address.
one final bit of advice, and I may be getting a little ahead of the curve here, is to buy a composition book and record the settings for each locomotive you own. this is especially true if you reset the cv,s for start voltage, acceletation, etc. if you every have to reset the decoder you will lose this info, so it is good to know what you had programmed in.
Quote from: jward on September 13, 2013, 08:15:23 AM
.....
.... buy a composition book and record the settings for each locomotive you own. this is especially true if you reset the cv,s for start voltage, acceletation, etc. if you every have to reset the decoder you will lose this info, so it is good to know what you had programmed in.
This is one unfortunate limitation with the basic Dynamis system. You can't read CV's until you upgrade to the Pro system so it it even more important to follow your advice and record any changes as they occur.
Keep in mind that Bachmann DCC systems are entry level systems. Good for what they do but they are entry level.
Quote from: rogertra on September 13, 2013, 11:12:49 PM
Keep in mind that Bachmann DCC systems are entry level systems. Good for what they do but they are entry level.
I guess my point was that there are other entry level systems that do allow the reading of CV's out of the box.
Having said that it's not a deal breaker for most people.
I don't consider the Dynamis to be an entry level system. EZ command is an entry level system.
Quote from: Yardmaster on September 14, 2013, 10:01:04 AM
I don't consider the Dynamis to be an entry level system. EZ command is an entry level system.
I stand corrected. Must admit I was going by what a friend who had Dynamis told me. But he's happy with his Dynamis which he upgraded from EZ Command. :)
I've only ever used NCE because, as you know, I have a larger model railroad.