I recently bought a Spectrum 2-8-0 with DCC. I programmed the long address to the cab number (705, the C&O paint model) and ran it successfully around a club layout pulling several cars for about an hour. Several days later, at home on a test loop, I ran it backwards for about 20 minutes. Everything seemed to be working fine.
Then I tried the 'momentum" button on my NCR Power Cab, and things started getting hinky. First, after selecting momentum level 5 (between 0 and 9), the engine would not run forward, but would run backward. I tried resetting the momentum to 0, but that did not get it to run forward, but it still ran backward. I tried resetting the momentum to 0 again, and it would not run forward or backward. I tried resetting the decoder, and the address changed from long 705 to short 3, but it still will not run in forward or reverse. The headlight still functions with the off-on command as well as when I change direction from forward to reverse and back, but the decoder does not seem to be sending power to the motor.
Some help, please.
you say you programmed a long address of 750 into your loco,on NCE powercab the long address require a 4 digit # short address 3 digit #i have a nce powercab system and the same loco 2-8-0 and i address mine to a long address of 7500.i just tried mine as we speak and programmed value of 9 into the momentum and it would not move,remembering that the higher the value the longer the response time.i set it back to 0 and all is back to normal. i would try a reset on cv8, then go into re programming your loco and then set cv 2 to 10.you can go further if you like to set motor v start voltages and play with these,but would leave these to another day.remember also these bachmann lenz decoders are very limited to what you can do cv wise.and these 2-8-0 are not speed demons .i have several of them and yes i have had some decoders die,but never to the fault of my power cab.if all else fails give NCE customer support a call &they will help you verify if its your power cab or a bad decoder.no sense sending back to backmann as this loco is discountined &you will have to put another decoder in it,which will give you more options. hope this info helps.
regards&later KEWATIN
Kewatin, thanks for the reply. Maybe we have 2 different version of the Power Cab, but mine specifically has a setting for the short address, a setting to enable it, another setting for the long address, and a setting to enable that. Entering "705" produced a long address of 705, and when enabled, the Power Cab showed that the engine was using the long address and that the address was "705" not "7050." But, since resetting the engine (with option 7 on the progamming track), I have the engine responding to short address 3 again, but it still doesn't move. Worse, the Poer Cab can no longer read the CVs on that engine, although it did before.
My main concern for the engine, now, is whether the problem is JUST the decoder, or if the MOTOR has been damaged. Or, at least the connections to the motor. I am getting the same response from the decoder as if the motor is not attached to it.
maletrain,sorry you are still having problems.do you have another dcc equipped loco you can try to see if your power cab will communicate to loco commands & that it runs on your layout.if it does respond then you know that it is not the powercab's fault and would suspect a bad bachmann decoder.i have had 2 of mine die over the last few yrs &just replaced with a new nce decoder giving me much more improved running &able to do more cv wise per adjustments.also do you have the latest software update version 1.65 chipset which was sent to me free a couple yrs ago.if you just purchased yours recently you will no doubt have the update.
keep us posted as to trying to resolve your problem.
regards &later KEWATIN
An aside,
Do not use NCE RECOVERY PROGRAMMING (Option 7) to reset any Bachmann locomotive equipped with DCC decoder. Instead Program CV 8, enter 8. If sound decoder - Program CV 8, enter 8, and cycle power.
And, it gets worse. I have a duplicate C&O version of this model, which had previously run well when I tested it and broke it in. I had not programmed that one to address 705, so I got it out and was going to use that to do some other things. I did NOT touch the "momentum" button while that one was on the track. BUT, I had not previously programmed it to 705, so I did that. As soon as I programmed it to 705 and started running it, it seemed to draw higher currrent and run more slowly. I tried cleaning the track and wheels, but it keep getting slower and stalling. SO, I am thinking that the Power Cab is still trying to do something related to "momentum" with whatever engine is numbered 705, and that is somehow damaging the decoder, or motor, or both. At this pointl, I am afraid to use the power cab for ANY engines until I can talk to NCE.
What is the value of CV 3 and CV 4 before and after you set the momentum level to 0 for locomotive 705?
Quote from: Hunt on January 23, 2016, 07:35:24 PM
What is the value of CV 3 and CV 4 before and after you set the momentum level to 0 for locomotive 705?
Also, have you at any time used
SET CMD STATION (Shortcut = PROG 5)? If so, what did you program?
MALETRAIN hunt has raised some very good points but perhaps some of this information is over wellming.
lets start over again.first off i would try a reset system on your nce power cab by pressing 6 to reset system,answer yes.next you can show track current on your screen by going into cab perimeters &when track current comes up press 1 for yes.this will show you track current. may be you accidently had it in a consist,i have done this myself on occasion,press delete loco,the loco number then enter..also if loco won't respond check that the short/long address bit is set correctly in the cfg variable[cv29]
also did you change any of the cv's in cv 3 &4,if so you need to set them to a small enough value to allow the loco to accelerate and to decelerate as hunt indicated.,try decoder recovery program option 7 which i believed you have tried already.don't know hunt said not to use,i have on several occasions and never had an issue.or you can also do a bachmann factory reset cv 8.i very seldom use the momentum on my powercab as i don't run a lot of consists on my layout.mostly i just set cv 2 to o for smooth slow operation and ajust upwards as needed.most bachmann lenz decoders come with cv 2 set to 10 from factory. as a last step have you tried it on dc after factory reset cv8 to see if it will run.remembering that you can also turn the dc mode off or on during loco addressing.trusting this information will help
regards&later KEWATIN
Kewatin,
The loco does not let me read CVs, now. So, I don't know how to do anything with CVs in this condition.
Do these decoders even HAVE a "momentum" function? Things clearly went from fine to bad as soon as I tried to use "momentum" setting on the Power Cab.
I will try to talk to NCE today. But, I was shoveling snow all day yesterday, so maybe they are not open, today. The more I know about the functions available in the 2-8-0 Lenz decoder, the better position I will be in to discuss this with NCE. I did see the decoder number when I reprogrammed the engine number, but did not write it down and probably don't remember it correctly at this point.
Steve
You don't really need to "see" the cv settings , I usually just program on the main track using ops mode .Put the loco on the main track , When you hit program the first time it says program on main , hit enter then . then it will say program loco # 705 , hit enter again . Then the next screen gives you 3 options . Hit 2=CV . Then the next screen will ask you which CV , enter the number 8 , then enter 8 again . this should reset everything back to factory . As Kewatan has said , I don't use the momemtim button either , I always set CV 3 & 4 to set accel and decell .
steve did you first try a powercab system reset by pressing 6 as i am sure nce customer support will advise,if you did so were you able to put track current on your screen,so you could at least see what is happening track wise with electrical power as you mentioned the second 2-8-0 you had running was slowing down?
using button 7 is a decoder system recovering mode to try and get a haywire decoder to return to some semblance of normal,not to be confused with cv8 reset factory specs.i have used 7 a few times with my bachmann lenz decoders and were able to get useable again in all but 2 cases.so i don't quite understand where hunt was coming from in his comment,of not to use it on any bachmann decoders.any way in closing you will probably have talked to the good folks at NCE &at least know where you are with your powercab status.keep us posted as we are here to help.i have had my powercab for 7 yrs and you would not believe the silly things i have done,but with help on this forum &others i managed to work my way thru it.
regards&later KEWATIN
When I first put the loco which got the "momentum" command back on the track, I was not even able to control the light any more, although I had still been able to control it when I last took it off the track.
After quite a bit of messing around with resets using "Programming on the Main" and setting CV 8 to the value of 8, with NO response, I tried the Programming Track Standard option again, and just kept hitting enter past the "Cannot read CV" messages until I got to Page Programming. Using page Programming, I set the short address to 3 and activated it. THAT gave me access to the headlight function on the loco again. Why the CV 8 = 8 attempts on the Main did not work but page programming did work is a mystery to me.
So, now the first loco is back to where I left off, with no motor control. Speed step 28 in both directions just reads the standard 0.01 amp. I tried talking to NCE, but the technician there had no ideas for a solution (other than to replace the decoder). I have a call in to Bachmann, with a call-back scheduled between 2 and 4 pm today.
The other loco was still set to long address 705, so I set it back to short address 3 and then reset it with CV 8 = 8. It runs forward and backward, but still draws high current and stalls where the track voltage is lowest (opposite the feed on the test loop). The stalling problem seems to get WORSE the longer I run that loco, so there is something DEGRADING with operation. There is also a faint "hot electrical" odor that I smell (only) on that engine when it runs. So, I seem to have TWO UNRELATED problems with these two locos.
For now, I want to concentrate on the loco that was running fine until I used the "momentum" key on the NCE Power Cab to try to set momentum to a value of 5. That is when the problem with the first loco started IMMEDIATELY. The NCE technician was unable to provide any insight into how that could have happened.
In response to one of the questions: I have never programmed the Power Cab in any way other than to set it to show current instead of clock time on the main display.
Any more suggestions?
Quote from: Maletrain on January 26, 2016, 11:34:02 AM
. . .
Why the CV 8 = 8 attempts on the Main did not work but page programming did work is a mystery to me.
. . .
No mystery - The decoder address was different than the PROGRAMMING ON THE MAIN decoder address used.
hi steve,,again did you reset your power cab system to factory stats, 2nd why are you trying to input a value of 5 into momentum remember that the higher the value the slower the response time.please input zero when it asks for a value,which will dis engage the momentum.the other thing i would try is to program it to another address other than 705 and see what happens.also can you in any way do a cv8 =8 reset and try to run it on dc.lastly what do you consider high track current? please give us the #'s you are seeing.i checked bachmann;s parts &no decoders available.for the same price or less you can put a much more capable decoder in these locos.for far better performance. these are great little locos,so i would just up grade..lastly have you checked the little plug that your track wires go into,that plugs into the power board panel with the red light.i have had on occasion a bad connection with the little screws that tighten down on wire.
you will get thru these problems, take it a step at a time.again join the NCE dcc yahoo group.there is an wealth of info and folks willing to help.
regards&later KEWATIN
If the Bachmann supplied documentation
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/images/44913_Decoder_IS.pdf
is relevant for this decoder, then 0 value is not valid for CV 3 or CV 4. If this is the situation, a 0 value sent to the decoder would be ignored and CV 3 and CV 4 would be left with the value set when momentum level 5 was entered.
To test this is the reason I ask, "What is the value of CV 3 and CV 4 before and after you set the momentum level to 0 for locomotive 705?"
Also since there is no motor control, expect there is a loose wire/connection.
Hunt, you seem to have missed the mystery. The decoder was responding to short address 3 when depowered before this morning's new testing exercise. And, the resets for CV 8 = 8 did not work when tried on the Main for short address 3, long address 3 or long address 705. Only page programming seemed to work A LITTLE for changing CV 8 to reset value 8. And that only got me light control. I did try programming CVs 3 and 4 to "1" in case setting the NCE value to "0" set those CVs to "0", but that had no effect. It is not clear that the NCE set them to "0" when ITS scale of 0 to 9 was selected as 0. The whole problem seems to be that the NCE coding has compatibility issues with the Bachmann decoder coding.
Kewatin, I used the value of 5 as a mid-level momentum test. That should have had an observable effect without taking forever to get up to speed or stop, again. It is basically irrelevant what I chose that was not zero. And resetting it to zero did not make things work. I have never programmed the Power Cab for anything but showing current instead of clock, so resetting it at this point seems to me to be grasping at straws at the expense of adding yet another potential issue. As for currents seem when THIS unit was running, they ranged from 0.04 to 0.18 amp, running without cars on an oval with 15" radius track and 30" straightaways at throttle settings from creep to max. However, once I tried the momentum button on the NCE Power Cab, the amps read 0.01 no matter what I do (which seems to only turn the light on and off). For the OTHER loco, the readings ranged from about 0.14 to 0.41 amp and were highly variable at a fixed throttle setting when I just tried it. The Bachmann tech said that is probably also a decoder issue, rather than a mechanical issue, but I am not convinced either way. let's not work on the second loco's problems right now.
So far, I have talked to techs at NCE, Lenz and Bachmann, plus a tech that repairs Lenz decoders who was driving to a meeting at the time. There is a lot of conflicting information about what the NCE Power Cab really does when the "momentum" function is use, what voltager is required by the Bachmann decoders to accept programming, and other issues that simply do not make sense when compared to what happened. My next step is to take it to my club and get it on JMRI Decoder Pro and see if that gains me any insights. So, more later.
I did join the Yahoo group for NCE DCC. I am waiting to post this there until I get it a little more organized.
hi steve, at least you are on the right track for solving your problems.i have a much better understanding now of your issues.the good news is you have access to your club.do they use an NCE system? if so maybe a member will try your power cab programming an address on his loco to verify your cab is working properly.i see also that you did not touch cv3 or 4. your track current seems normal also.i am still convinced you have a decoder issue,i looked back thru my records that i keep for each of my locos and the 2 that died on me were both decoders,notes were it could not read cv's etc and in the one case light was on ,but no other functions were available.also if 0 was pushed when momentum button was pressed it will be what is commonly called direct drive &the decoder will jump to the speed selected by the throttle.HUNT is right about bachmann lenz decoders having a cv3 &4 value that can be adjusted to suit each loco,if desired.again these are wonderful little locos and i would just update the decoders. also i see a tread going on about wishing bachmann would do a rerun on these over at the train forum.please keep us posted as to how this all works out for you.
regards&later KEWATIN
I tried the JMRI Decoder Pro setup at the club this afternoon. Same problem - can't read CVs, and writing CV 8 = 8 from that system had the same null result. So, as far as I am concerned, that decoder is dead. I had hoped to find a way to recover it so that I could see if the problem was repeatable. I would have been willing to do that with this one loco. But, I am not about to do the same thing to another loco. I would be interested in hearing if anybody else has used an NCE Power Cab "momentum" button successfully with a Bachmann N scale 2-8-0 with OEM decoder. Or with any other Bachmann decoder. The decoder in my 2-8-0 reads (or should I say used to read) manufacturer = 101 (Bachmann) and version = 046.
As for me, time to select a new decoder with quality sound and good back-EMF control features. Already have one suggestion from the "another run" request thread on another forum. Any other suggestions?
Steve
hi steve,glad you were able to determine that it was the decoder.i had thought this from the start as i indicated in previous posts.i have 5 of these locos and last night i went in and using momentum on all of them put a value of 5 into them,i had no issues,i then went in and changed out the cv 3&4 values to 5 and again no issues i also tried on my berkshire sound equip unit and again,no issues.what i did find is that i personally did not like the performance using the momentum settings and reset every thing back to 0.i also reset my motor start voltage on the 2-8-0's back to 5 instead of 0 where i had them. the only reason in my mind you would want to use momentum is for locos in consist so as to try &match them together..there are several videos on installing sound in these and doesn't appear to difficult, john colombo over on train board& rail wire has some excellent ones. have a great day &good luck.
regards and later KEWATIN
Quote from: Maletrain on January 27, 2016, 08:25:41 PM
As for me, time to select a new decoder with quality sound and good back-EMF control features. Already have one suggestion from the "another run" request thread on another forum. Any other suggestions?
Steve
I just had an Econami installed in my 2-6-6-2 . The sound is very nice ! Comparing it to the TSU 750 that I installed in a 2-10-2 , I prefer the Econami over the TSU 750 . I still have 2 more sound installs that I want done , one of them being my 2-8-0 . I will definitely be putting the Econami in both of them . Just cant beat the price , and the sound and motor control is excellent ! Also , be sure to use some kind of capacitor with the decoder to prevent short power dropouts .