I did a little research on the internet and was informed as to what these PCC streetcars were. They were designed by committee (representatives of a lot of the streetcar companies across the nation). The government backed the project (about 1929) and owned the final specs. The cars were built for street car railroads around the nation.
The thing that surprised me was the gage of the track they ran on. ALL were standard gage (railroad gage about 5 feet) EXCEPT for Los Angeles Railways (the ones of my memory, the Yellow Cars, running on the "J" Line). They were narrow gage. Then it struck me.... That is why the cars in real life from the LA Railway System looked to have low skirts hiding the wheel. That was not it at all. The trucks were much narrower at 3 ft 6 in. They were buried way in under the body of the car.
Another thing that surprised me was that the LA system around 1900 was much more extensive and well used than in my youth in the 1950's. In fact, the automobile was responsible for the reduced ridership. The infrastructure when plugged with autos made the route schedules impossible to keep. So the management just eliminated routes through the years. There was a surge in ridership during WWII as gasoline was rationed as part of the war effort. The streetcars were replaced with electric busses at first then by diesel buses. This happened as I was growing up in the 1950's. Eventually the LA Railway streetcars were gone followed later by the Red Cars of the Pacific Electric Company. As an aside, the Red Cars ran on standard gage track, not narrow gage.
This whole little trolley layout I started a couple of months ago has been a trip down memory lane for me and what an enjoyable trip! For those of you that are LA-ites, I came to Bell in about 1946 at four years old and moved to Long Beach in 1952. I took many trips with my Mom to downtown LA on the "J" cars starting from Huntington Park and had several rides on the Red Cars, mostly form Long Beach. When in college I visited the stacks of piled up Red Cars in a salvage lot in Long Beach on Ocean Blvd. It was a sorry sight!
LDBennett
LD-
Public transit in LA in the 50s was truly terrible. We used to move to LA every summer when I was a kid. (My father was a Santa Fe dining car steward who we would never see otherwise because the railroad would keep him on the train constantly if he didn't bid the five-day-a-week Del Mar race train). The first time we took the train to LA and had a real problem getting around. Renting cars was a rare thing at that time so we were deponent on my grandmother who lived in Hollywood for a car. It was so hard to get around without a car that we drove cross country every summer after that.
-- D
Doneldon:
We lived in Bell from 1946 until 1952. The freeway system was being constructed during that time and auto usage was the way to get around after about 1950. Before that our family, rather typically, had one car which my dad took to work. So if my mom did not want to be home bound she had to use the buses, trollies, and streetcars. I went with her on occasion in to Huntington Park or all the way into Downtown LA on shopping trips. I recollect that the buses and streetcars were always nearly full. By 1952 when we moved to Long Beach public transportation was on the decline big time. The freeways were plentiful and could get you to just about anywhere. One of the last major freeways to be completed was the San Diego freeway and that was done by the mid 1960's.
I remember going to Yosemite from Long Beach in mid 1950's and having to go across the San Fernando Valley via city streets. It took us 12 hours or more to get to the Yosemite entrance. Freeways changed all that and killed public transportation.
The memories of riding on the "J" cars have rushed back since taking on this little trolly layout. They were very good memories!
LDBennett
LA also, of course, also had the Pacific Electric "Red Cars" that provided both interurban and city service. PE was standard gauge, as opposed to the LARy narrow gauge, and had some freight service.
While the overall design of the PCC was fairly standard, there were lots of variations. The Philly and Pittsburgh fleets were wide gauge - 5' 2 1/4". Most post-WWII cars came with "standee" windows - small oval windows above the regular windows so that standing passengers could see where they were better. Washington, DC's PCC's were one window shorter than the standard due to the length of the carbarn transfer tables. I believe St. Louis had some double-ended PCC's.
Don't forget the Baldwin diesels the PE used. Interesting to see a diesel with trolley poles.
Rich
And before anyone asks, the trolley poles were needed because the Pacific Electric's signalling system depending on contactors on the overhead wire to activate the system. The trolley poles were not used to power the diesels. Theoretically they could have, ala the New Haven's dual-mode FL-9's, but I'm sure the conversion was more trouble than it was worth.
Here are some HO diesel powered PCC streetcars by con-cor
ttp://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=railbus&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
I got the Southern Pacific (Daylight) version coming from Model Train Stuff.
LDBennett
Quote from: ebtnut on June 19, 2012, 03:31:29 PM
And before anyone asks, the trolley poles were needed because the Pacific Electric's signalling system depending on contactors on the overhead wire to activate the system. The trolley poles were not used to power the diesels. Theoretically they could have, ala the New Haven's dual-mode FL-9's, but I'm sure the conversion was more trouble than it was worth.
I have some Bowser VO-1000's. Bowser also sell the ones used by PE and the poles where used only for crossing signals. The VO-1000 where used at the end of that era for freight operations.
Below is one link of many I have about the PE.
http://www.erha.org/pelines/pensb.htm
P. Allen Copeland "PACIFIC ELECTRIC" in color volume 2 is suppose to have some photos of diesels.
Rich
the comment about the los angeles pcc cars being the only ones not standard guage is not true.
here in pennsylvania, the major railroads got a law passed requiring all electric street railways to be uilt to a guage 6 inches wider than standard guage. they did this to prevent competing roads from financing interurban lines as a cheap way to offer competing business. yes, the interurbans hauled freight, but the guage difference meant it had to be transloaded to/from regular railroad car to interurban freight cars. that was an expensive and time consuming operation, and effectively killed the interurbans ability to attract more than local freight business.
those guage differences exist to this day in pittsburgh and philadelphia, both also operated pcc cars. in fact, pittsburgh had the largest single fleet at 666 cars. all built to "pennsylvania" guage.
you can ride these broad guage pccs at the pennsylvania trolley museum, outside of washington, pa.
jward:
Sorry, but Wikipedia made no mention of PCC trolleys of a gage larger than standard and only that the LA Railway System (PCC Yellow cars) used narrow gage. We learn new things every day. Thanks.
LDBennett
Quote from: LDBennett on June 21, 2012, 10:30:17 AM
jward:
Sorry, but Wikipedia made no mention of PCC trolleys of a gage larger than standard and only that the LA Railway System (PCC Yellow cars) used narrow gage. We learn new things every day. Thanks.
LDBennett
Although Wikipedia has a lot of good info, it is not always completely accurate. You need to do cross checks.
Rich
richg:
Yes, I know about Wikipedia. It is basically an open source encyclopedia that anyone can submit to. And while it has some good info there can be bad or at least erroneous info there too.
Does anyone know of a good book on trollies and street cars? I am particularly interested in the three I have: PCC (Los Angeles), Peter Witt (Los Angeles) and Birney(Baltimore). Also the diesel powered PCC street cars too.
LDBennett
Oh, my, books on trolleys--so many, most of individual systems.
Here is a list that would be a good start. It is nowhere near exhaustive!
http://www.trolleyville.com/library.shtml
Among the books NOT on the list is one on the Baltimore, Md., system. It too was broad gauge, and yes, it had PCCs too.
I strongly recommend a visit to the Baltimore Streetcar Museum, by the way. Among the cars that run there are a Baltimore Peter Witt that is the prototype of the Bachmann model. With the right motorman, the car is a ball to ride. With an aluminum body and four big motors underneath, it can take off like a hot rod!
http://www.baltimorestreetcar.org/
http://www.baltimorestreetcar.org/carstock.html
http://www.baltimorestreetcar.org/images/6119600.jpg
a number of years ago, somebody published a well researched book on the pcc cars. sorry but i don't recall the title or author.
J. Ward, is this the book?
http://www.amazon.com/PCC-The-That-Fought-Back/dp/0916374416
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/pcc-the-car-that-fought-back-stephen-p-carlson/1013171483
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=9749451
Another recommended reading list; this book and another are in the list:
http://www.dctrolley.org/booklist.htm
Here is what could be another:
http://www.amazon.com/An-American-Original-Interurbans-Special/dp/0916374734
http://www.abebooks.com/9780916374730/American-Original-Pcc-Kashin-Seymour-0916374734/plp
Here's another you may find of interest:
https://www.thebsra.org/store/product/pcc-cars-of-the-united-states/
Hope these help out.
pcc the car that fought back.
that's the book. incidentally, the cover photo is one of the broad guage pittsburgh cars.
the other pcc book i've never seen before so i can't say for sure if it is any good. but if i have to choose between two books i know nothing about, i'll choose the one with the historical photo on the cover. it's probably the better researched book. the one with the recent photo tends to be more of a photo book rather than a historical one.
in this case, i know the pcc the car that fought back, is a very good book.
From that Trolleyville list, I recommend the Bill Middleton books: The Time of the Trolley and The Interurban Era. Both are well-researched, excellently written books with lots of pix. The third volume in the trilogy is When the Steam Roads Electrified, covering the likes of the New Haven, PRR, and other big-time electification projects. Another book which you might find kicking around used book stores at a reasonable price is Trolley Car Treasury.
ebtnut:
Thanks for the book tip. I found a new one for $25 at Amazon.com and ordered it.
LDBennett