I have just purchased a 55 ton 3 truck shay and am converting it to battery powered, radio control.
The model came without a sound card but other versions do have a sound card fitted.
Is it possible to
a. buy a sound card and,
b. run it off battery radio control?
Any help will be greatly appreciated and if someone has done this any instructions, pitfalls etc also very welcome.
I live in Australia and will be using a model plane radio control system.
Thanks in advance
Hi gprice,
I would highly recommend the Phoenix P8 Sound board which is made especially for battery powered Loco. They have a great sound library as well.
http://www.phoenixsound.com/products/products.html
The instructions are very straight forward and the boards are very bullet proof.
The online help is excellent as well.
Essentially they are easy to hook up two wires to the speaker (get a phoenix speaker)
Two wires from the battery to the board for power.
Two wires from the power output to the board.
Any other wiring is basically for individual sound triggers which will be dependent on the capability of your Transmitter and I know nothing about model plane transmitters. The board can be set up without the triggers essentially in the automatic mode.
Look over the tech info at the phoenix website to get familiar with the product.
Have fun with your project.
Bill
I don't know anything about rules in OZ for radio control of hobby trains and planes. I have heard that the FCC here in the USA prohibits the use of model air plane frequencies for ground based toys and models (trains, cars, trucks, etc.). Chuck
Quote from: Chuck N on May 09, 2013, 10:50:17 AM
<snip> I have heard that the FCC here in the USA prohibits the use of model air plane frequencies for ground based toys and models (trains, cars, trucks, etc.). Chuck
That is true for the older 27MHz & 75MHz AM & FM RC equipment.
It is no longer true with the (relatively) new 2.4 GHz spread spectrum equipment. Each spread spectrum transmitter & receiver have internal software that 'links' them to each other. That software also prevents 'links' being established to any other transmitter or receiver while in operation. This eliminates the need for specialized frequency assignments and crystals. Any 2.4 GHZ system can be used for controlling any device whether on the ground, water or air.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
The sound card that comes stock with the 55-ton Shay is a DCC sound/motor control card. So even if you could get one, it's not going to do you a whole bunch of good if you're going battery R/C with model car/plane R/C components. They're incompatible control protocols.
Given your location Down Under, if you haven't yet, get in touch with Tony Walsham. (Remote Control Systems of Australia). He makes R/C stuff that works with model car/plane RC controllers that are very good quality. He's also got instructions on installing R/C in a variety of locos. Obviously he's going to be illustrating his own products, but other control systems would be similar.
Here's a link to his instructions on the 55-ton Shay:
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/35/aft/124841/afv/topic/Default.aspx (http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/35/aft/124841/afv/topic/Default.aspx)
Later,
K
Thanks Jerry for the clarification. I don't keep up on the RC world very well.
Chuck
Does anybody have an idea what the current draw is on a Bachmann 55 Ton 3 Truck Shay?
I am planning to convert one to Battery R/C and need to know what capacity battery I will need as a minimum.
As a rule of thumb, I figure 1 amp per motor. Lights, smoke, and sound will take more. The power requirements also depend on the grade of your track, drag of cars you are pulling, the diameter of your curves, etc. there are many variables in the amps required by an engine. It is not a simple answer. Chuck
While you do not mention the type of battery you plan to use, I recommend a 14.8 volt 2200 or 2600 mAh Lithium Ion battery pack. I use them on every locomotive I have from small porters up to large diesels and everything in between. Runtime will vary considerably depending on the grades on your layout, but I never run one down in a typical operating session. The only time I will run out of battery power is when running heavier trains continuously for long periods of time. The way you run you trains will have a direct effect on your runtime. Everyone has a different operating style, but I feel you will find reasonable runtime with the above mentioned configuration.
Bill
Quote from: Loco Bill Canelos on May 10, 2013, 10:52:58 PM
While you do not mention the type of battery you plan to use, I recommend a 14.8 volt 2200 or 2600 mAh Lithium Ion battery pack. I use them on every locomotive I have from small porters up to large diesels and everything in between. Runtime will vary considerably depending on the grades on your layout, but I never run one down in a typical operating session. The only time I will run out of battery power is when running heavier trains continuously for long periods of time. The way you run you trains will have a direct effect on your runtime. Everyone has a different operating style, but I feel you will find reasonable runtime with the above mentioned configuration.
Bill
I am planning on using a12V 4800mAH Li-ion battery from eBay, either that or 2700mAH NiMH tagged AA cells to make a 12V battery.
The limiting factor on voltage is the speed controller I am thinking of using it can only take a 12V input but can handle 20A, it for aircraft/boat R/C.
Personally I would go for the Lithium Ion battery over the NMIH. I have used both types over the years and the Lithium Ion are superior.
Have fun!!
Bill
I am planning on using a12V 4800mAH Li-ion battery from eBay, either that or 2700mAH NiMH tagged AA cells to make a 12V battery.
The limiting factor on voltage is the speed controller I am thinking of using it can only take a 12V input but can handle 20A, it for aircraft/boat R/C.
I don't think you will find a 12V Li-Ion battery. They are come in 3.7V steps. The next voltage below 14.8V would be 11.1V.
Tom
11.1 should be fine with a shay, unless you plan to race it around. When fully charged the 11.1 volt Lithium Ion packs are right around 12 volts when check with a multimeter. The most important thing is the mAh you will want to get 2200mAh or larger to get decent runtime.
I agree that 11.1 volts is fine for the Shay in terms of speed, but remember that the control electronics may require more. Lots of them prefer 12 volts or more. The 11.1 volt packs will deliver 12 volts fully charged, but drop to 9 before cutting out. That may cause issues with control/sound products. In many cases, you can program in the "top speed," so you can still set a prototypically accurate top speed for your loco regardless of how many volts are powering it.
The rear tank on the 55-ton Shay is a cavernous affair, so at least in this case, the decision as to whether to choose between 11.1 and 14.8 volts won't be based on space considerations. I converted two for a friend of mine, and fit 14.8 volt, 5200mAh packs (8 cells side by side--about 3/4" x 3" x 6") in there with no problem. I don't think you'll run that flat in an operating session (unless your sessions run in excess of 8 hours), but if you wanted to spend the money, you could get a 10,000 mAh (10 amp hours) in there with no trouble either. In my experience, that's money wasted as you'll never need that kind of capacity for "normal" operations, but they will fit...
Later,
K
Kevin is absolutely correct, if your receiver requires more than 11.1 volts to operate properly, then I would go for my first recommendation which was the 14.8 volt battery. I presume your transmitter is powered by its own separate power source. You will have to check the specs on your receiver to determine what the high and low voltage limits are and get or make a suitable battery pack.
Have fun!
Bill
When you mentioned you had a 12v limit, I wondered how my shay performed at various voltages. I have a 2-truck Bachmann Shay. This afternoon I took a volt meter out and tried to measure the speed at or near the voltages mentioned. My mainline is a little under 90' in length. The engine with no cars started moving at between 3 and 4 volts. At 12.3v it took 110 seconds to do a lap. This scales out at 11 mph. This is a very prototypical speed for a Shay. In my mind it was very slow for a garden railroad. I do not like running things very fast, but this was visually slow for me. At 14.1v it took 84 seconds(14mph) and at 18.7v it took 57 seconds (22 mph).
Pulling a train with 6 Bachmann 2-bay hopper cars and an Accucraft short caboose I got the following values: 13.9v 105 seconds (12 mph), 12.1v 133 seconds (9 mph).
If you have a chance try to find a layout in your area and take your engine and run it at various voltages. See if you will be happy with the speed, or lack of it, at 12v, before you spend the time and effort installing the controller.
Just a suggestion.
Chuck
Quote from: Loco Bill Canelos on May 12, 2013, 07:13:57 PM
Kevin is absolutely correct, if your receiver requires more than 11.1 volts to operate properly, then I would go for my first recommendation which was the 14.8 volt battery. I presume your transmitter is powered by its own separate power source. You will have to check the specs on your receiver to determine what the high and low voltage limits are and get or make a suitable battery pack.
Have fun!
Bill
My receiver runs on a constant 5V provided by an Electronic Speed Controller (ESC) which has an inbuilt battery eliminator circuit, it is the ESC that has a 12V limit on it but it is capable of handling up to 20 Amps.
The transmitter has 8 AA rechargeables so that is not an issue.
I have spoken to another modeler who has Garret articulated loco with 2 motors, he is using an 11.V Lipo battery (12V when fully charged) and it runs fine .
Chuck N has experimented with speed at different voltages and 11mph sounds good to me as I run all my trains real slow, I am guessing that the voltages he measured were variable DC but the ESC I use applies a constant voltage to the motor and switches it on and off at a high speed, the motor speed is determined by the on time/off time ratio.
Effectively it is Pulse Width Modulation.
My other locos all run on 9x1.2V (10.8V) 2700mAH NiMH AA batteries and I have plenty of throttle movement range but they only have 1 motor.
I was just concerned that because the shay has 3 motors it would need a larger capacity battery.
Thanks for all the advice I now have a fairly good idea about how I will go, both with battery size and sound options