I purchased an FM 16-44 it is dc.I put it on my tracks,turn the throttle,and nothing happens.No lights,nothing.To it to a hobby shop and same thing.The wheels move freely.It does have a slight mildew order.Any ideas.I am trying to contact the seller.
If the wheels move freely, without power, you either have a dummy unit, the drive shafts are disconnected, or someone gutted a powered unit. All of the FM16-44's I own are worm drive, which means the wheels shouldn't move at all unless the motor has power and is spinning them.
Len
This an Ebay purchase AJ? And what make loco is this?
If this is the Bachmann Baby Trainmaster:
The shell is fairly easy to remove. It's been a number of years, but if I recall correctly, there are two screws underneath that need to be removed. They should be in fairly deep-set holes. I don't recall if the couplers need to come off, too. However, that is also easy to do.
As Len stated, the wheels should not turn... even with the motor shafts disconnected from the trucks. So serious parts are missing or broken. There is a worm gear atop both truck towers. If seated properly, they would prevent you from turning the wheels
Second, with the shell of, you should see a PCB (circuit board) sitting on top of the frame. This is where the current is picked up from the frame halves and delivered to the motor and the lights. Is that missing or broken?
Regards,
Jonathan
Here's the exploded diagram of the Bachmann FM H16-44: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/64112.pdf (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/64112.pdf)
Len
I turn the worm gear by hand and the wheels will turn.It is an ebay purchase.I will have to check it out
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 08, 2016, 06:48:16 PM
It is an ebay purchase.
What did the Seller advertise this as, ie: condition, working order, etc? What have you said to the Seller after receiving it?
Answer on the make?
It was sold as new in box.I never test ran it until tuesday.I put it on the track turn the throttle and in a few second the overload lights up.I sent a message to the seller and he/she is out of the office until 5/17
If this is the Bachmann FM, check that one of the trucks didn't get reversed. I've seen that before with those 'screw through the top' mounted trucks, and it will create a short that gives an overload condition.
Len
Another thing to check:
The trucks on these locos have a "D" shaped ring on either side. These rings contact the bottom of the frames to transfer current. These rings are notorious for being out of position when new. You could have one, or more, of the rings bent into the wrong position, causing a short. Hence, you get the overload indication on the power pack.
I have two of these locos. One did have an over-bent ring right out of the box. Once bent into the correct position, the locomotive ran fine.
Regards,
Jonathan
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 08, 2016, 11:44:33 PM
I sent a message to the seller and he/she is out of the office until 5/17
I don't believe that from the Seller for one second. What kind of Feedback rating did/does this Seller have? And, did you check before buying?
My advice; continue to follow through on what these gentlemen,
Jonathan and
Len offer for tips to hopefully solve the issue. Simultaneously, send a message to the Seller, stating to the effect, that you will give the Seller 1 week to get back to you on this "to resolve" your "problem as the item was clearly misrepresented as listed" and if you "do not hear back in that week's time" you are going to "proceed with taking the actions necessary to remedy the situation".
Have you been able to take the shell off?
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 08, 2016, 06:48:16 PM
It is an ebay purchase.
Oh, how I used to cringe when someone came to the counter at my repair shop, and the first words out of their mouths were, "I bought this on eBay, and it doesn't run."
I'm sure there are legite sellers out their, especially retailers with an eBay presence. But man, there are a lot of scam artists too.
Len
I will try to find some time this weekend, to take a few pics and help you through your problem. I'm guessing this loco in new and unused, but had a factory defect, and the seller didn't know how to handle it.
Usually, factory defects are easy to fix, once you know where to look.
Regards,
Jonathan
I thank all of you for your assistance
Jonathan,How many D rings should there be on each truck
There should be two rings on each truck; one on the left, and one on the right.
On one of my locos, the ring was folded up too far, squeezed up in between the two metal frame halves. This prevented the truck from swiveling correctly, AND it could actually touch the other frame half, causing a short. It obviously got caught and folded as the loco was being assembled at the factory. ...it happens. :) Not the end of the world, once one can diagnose the problem.
I discovered this when I first ran the loco. It would run herky jerky and would not negotiate a curve. Thus, there was an intermittent short and the truck would not turn properly.
The round part of the "D" should curve up, just enough, to touch the bottom of its corresponding frame half.
Again, this may not be your problem, but I recall, when these locomotives were first released, some folks had issues with proper contact around the D rings.
Regards,
Jonathan
You are quite welcome
AJ.
Quote from: Len on December 09, 2016, 08:23:28 AM
I'm sure there are legite sellers out their, especially retailers with an eBay presence. But man, there are a lot of scam artists too.
Len
You are absolutely correct, on both counts. But if
AJ follows all of the advice generously provided to him, things will work out in his favor. In addition, this will serve as a good learning experience on a lot of levels. I have additional advice if necessary, but I for one would appreciate
AJ keeping us informed of what happens and is happening as this plays out.
The "rings"
JV speaks of, are spring metal (I would call them half moon shaped) and they make contact between the trucks and each frame half. Here is a pic to perhaps help:
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/tmaster/tmaster.html
You may have to blow up the pic, but you can see them as the dark colored "arches" on the top of the trucks in picture #2.
That site Jim linked to is about to disappear in the next few months. If anyone wants it for reference, now is the time to download the info to your own hard drives.
Sid
Here is one of my FM H16-44's:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0159_zps5byn0dw3.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0159_zps5byn0dw3.jpg.html)
Apologies for my mistake, earlier. There are FOUR screws that need to be removed, to get the shell off. Couplers can stay on.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0160_01_zpsajbg0zpg.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0160_01_zpsajbg0zpg.jpg.html)
Shell off:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0161_01_zpss72e0etx.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0161_01_zpss72e0etx.jpg.html)
Here is the pickup ring I wrote about earlier. One of these was bound up between the frame pieces when I received mine in the mail:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0164_zpslulomslc.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0164_zpslulomslc.jpg.html)
Another area of concern is the gap between the frame halves. Any stray bit of metal could wander up in here and cause a short. It takes three screws to separate the frame. Do this gently. You don't want parts flying into the ether, never to be found again:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0166_zpshdeop5gv.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0166_zpshdeop5gv.jpg.html)
The inner sanctum:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0168_01_zpswyt7u6dc.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0168_01_zpswyt7u6dc.jpg.html)
My gears look a bit dry. I have had this thing for a decade now.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0169_02_zpsxukzmt6u.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0169_02_zpsxukzmt6u.jpg.html)
While I'm in here, might as well hook up a power source, turn the baby over and clean the wheels.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0172_zpsl35vem3d.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0172_zpsl35vem3d.jpg.html)
I used tiny drops of conductalube on the axles, and Labelle gear oil on the worm and plastic tower gears (tiny amounts).
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSC_0175_zpsumix1qlg.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/DSC_0175_zpsumix1qlg.jpg.html)
An additional thought: as I recall I did have to bend one of the motor tabs (straighten it out really) so it seated squarely against the frame half. No big deal.
I stand ready for your questions. ;D
Regards,
Jonathan
I noticed in picture #6 that it looks like there is some electrical tape around one end of the motor
Yes, the electrical tape is wrapped around the end of the motor. It came that way from the factory. It must be to ensure the motor doesn't contact the sides of the frame... the frame pieces are live and carry current to the motor tabs and the lighting tabs.
I have also used electrical tape on motors to help cut down on vibration. Some locomotives have an inherent buzzing sound, usually from the motor's vibration being transferred to the frame and shell. Too much tape, however, can cause a motor to get overly warm.
Regards,
Jonathan
Quote from: jonathan on December 13, 2016, 07:10:17 AM
I have also used electrical tape on motors to help cut down on vibration. Too much tape, however, can cause a motor to get overly warm.
Regards,
Jonathan
This is where Kapton tape has it over electrical tape; it won't trap heat. It also does not leave the sticky residue electrical tape does.
JV, you sure this was virgin when you bought it? Bc I am not so sure the electrical tape is a factory addition; I have a split frame GP35 that did not come with electrical tape on the motor. And I can't see a reason for tape being there, except having been put there by someone looking to reduce vibration like you touched on. There is no metal at that end of the motor to touch the frame, it is all plastic at that end of the motor housing.
AJ, what is the latest with yours?
The two tabs on the motor,should they be touching the frame.I put the loco on the tracks and it moves a little stops,overload comes on,goes off moves a little,and so on.The plastic end cap on the motor broke so I took the broken pieces and taped it back on
Just adjusted the two tabs against the frame,and it's running wonderfully. 😀
New question,The headlight on the 2 hoods come on opposite the direction of the direction of travel
Have the motor upside down would be my first guess (unless you monkeyed too with the light board.)
How did the plastic end cap break?
Did you follow my suggestion w/regard to the Seller?
Good news all in all.
Not sure if the end cap was cracked or not.The seller is out of the office until May 2017.I am guessing Florida or Arizona.What is Kapton tape
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 16, 2016, 08:53:22 PM
.What is Kapton tape
Man I love the web... you can google just about anything ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 16, 2016, 08:53:22 PM
The seller is out of the office until May 2017.
I know, I heard (read) you the first time. I commented that I thought that (automated) response you got from the Seller is total BS and suggested you do something; did you do it ???
Kapton tape is what folks should use instead of electrical tape, especially those doing DCC work. You can find it/buy it for cheap on Ebay, w/o having to worry much about getting ripped off by a crooked Seller. Don't need a lot of yards or feet, a little goes a long way. It comes in varied thicknesses and widths. Mostly comes from Chine.
Quote from: Jerrys HO on December 16, 2016, 09:58:14 PM
love the web... you can google just about anything
Agree. Too bad most Forum posters appear too lazy to do so and would rather spend the time posting the question and have someone else do their research for them. Not learning much by taking that approach.
I have contacted ebay,and they will look into it.I have seen Wal-Mart has the Kapton tape.
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 17, 2016, 05:31:35 PM
I have contacted ebay
I guess by this answer you did not follow my suggestion. (Sigh) Unfortunate. Would have sent the message I outlined for you to the Seller as the first step, better chances at getting a resolution that is more in your favor. Contacting Ebay would have been second and only if either A) no contact back from Seller, B) Seller decided he wanted to play the jerk about it and not parley.
How 'bout my questions to you about A) whether you checked the Seller's Feedback rating before buying? B) what the Feedback rating was?
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 17, 2016, 05:31:35 PM
I have seen Wal-Mart has the Kapton tape.
Shopping must not be (one of) your forte(s). There are better prices out there. Have you looked (hint hint again) on Ebay? ::)
I did send a message to the seller,still no reply.Rated at 100% feedback
Quote from: Aljim54 on December 17, 2016, 06:34:29 PM
Rated at 100% feedback
That really surprises me. Was the message you sent, to the effect as the one I outlined for you?
PS: Have you left Feedback yet for the Seller?