Dear Bach man.
I am wondering if you guys will release a M-3 M-4 version of the B&O EM-1 with the centipede tender and the DUluth Missabe & Iron Range R.R markings and yellowstone wings. if not is it possible to get a seperate adaptable centipede tender so i can convert a EM-1 to a Missabe road yellowstone?
You can purchase any centipede tender and modify it to make the locomotive you desire. All you need to do is either modify the wires going to the locomotive or going to the tender. Using parts available from Bachmann you can likely hardwire in new sockets or connectors. You may need to install or modify the drawbar as needed. It is not that difficult of a job. Finally you would just need to letter the locomotive and tender as desired.
At this point even if Bachmann were to take your suggestion, it would be 2-3 years before you would be able to get the locomotive and/or tender, so you are best off to do it yourself especially since it isn't very difficult.
Quote from: ACY on September 09, 2014, 06:05:49 PM
You can purchase any centipede tender and modify it to make the locomotive you desire. All you need to do is either modify the wires going to the locomotive or going to the tender. Using parts available from Bachmann you can likely hardwire in new sockets or connectors. You may need to install or modify the drawbar as needed. It is not that difficult of a job. Finally you would just need to letter the locomotive and tender as desired.
At this point even if Bachmann were to take your suggestion, it would be 2-3 years before you would be able to get the locomotive and/or tender, so you are best off to do it yourself especially since it isn't very difficult.
It would actually be more difficult than you say it would be. I have seen two of the three surviving DM&IR M-3/M-4 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone types (which aslo happen to be the only three engines of that wheel arrangement left in America, Canada and Mexico and all in Duluth, MN; Proctor, MN; and Two Harbors, MN [the ones I have seen are the ones in Duluth and Two Harbors]) and there are quite a few differences in design from the B&O EM-1 and the DM&IR M-3/M-4. Here are some pictures to show the differences.
DM&IR M-3/M-4
http://www.american-rails.com/images/THS52149.jpg (http://www.american-rails.com/images/THS52149.jpg)
http://engineeringartwork.com/images/dm-ir_2-8-8-4_yellowstone_locomotive_600px.jpg (http://engineeringartwork.com/images/dm-ir_2-8-8-4_yellowstone_locomotive_600px.jpg)
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1279/4702066732_92632f61a6_z.jpg (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1279/4702066732_92632f61a6_z.jpg)
B&O EM-1
http://www.brasstrains.com/images/products/033910/DSC02078.jpg (http://www.brasstrains.com/images/products/033910/DSC02078.jpg) I understand this is a picture of a model of an EM-1 but this was the best front view image of an EM-1 as I could find.
https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/80407_1468862_Qty1_3.jpg (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/80407_1468862_Qty1_3.jpg)
As you can see by the pictures, The front would need to be changed quite a bit from the fresh out of the box appearance by removing the B&O herald from the front and adding airpumps, changing the area down above the pilot (in addition to the pilot itself), changing the headlight for an accurate DM&IR one, removing one smokestack and changing the box on the smokebox in front of the smokestacks to a feedwater heater and adding the piping for the feedwater heater, and changing the cab for an all-weather cab of DM&IR style.
Quote from: MilwaukeeRoadfan261 on September 09, 2014, 08:17:47 PM
It would actually be more difficult than you say it would be.
I was saying just to switch out the B&O tender included with the locomotive for a centipede tender as the DM&IR used. Granted to get a model that is completely accurate he would need to make the further modifications himself as the chances Bachmann makes another mold just for the DM&IR is not likely due to cost related issues, mainly not a large enough amount of people will purchase the locomotive to offset the cost of production. So that leaves him with the difficult task you describe if he wants to be 100% accurate or switch the tenders and re-letter it and call it close enough for his purposes.
Depending how much a rivet counter he is and what skill level he has , he still has a better chance of acquiring something close than to wait for Bachmann to spend a fortune on a relatively rare engine . John2.
that is the benefit with the DM&IR yellowstones. you can see all of them in 1 day. it takes a week to see all the Big Boys. but for me the best option is to just start off making the minor changes of the bat. such as head light and tender. the challenger centipede tender in scale is actually 1 foot 5 inches longer then the M-3/M-4 tender. so slowly but surely. i would get it to look just like the real thing. its a good thing i have a few friends in the missabe historical society to help with finding the proper conversion parts. but as a college student, it may take me a year just to get the model and tender.
Or he could simply buy one of the Akane M4s and convert it to DCC & Sound like I did!
there's not really that much difference in price.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/lkemling/Great%20Northern%20brass/003-1.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/lkemling/media/Great%20Northern%20brass/003-1.jpg.html)
GN-
That's true and he'll have a quality loco when he gets done. The Akane Yellowstones run very well, in my experience,
and they capture the massive aura of their prototype. I'm practically in love with mine. Can't you tell?
-- D
Fortunately, or should that be "unfortunately" as a Canadian modeller the need for articulated steam power is not a requirement as, apart from two classes of 0-6-6-0 helpers, totalling 41 engines built by the CPR for service on the "Big Hill" out of Field BC, there were no articulated steam used in Canada. Discounting logging Shays of course and one, I think, Shay built for the CPR.
The CPR engines were converted in 1916/17 into 2-10-0s for use on transfer trains between the various Montreal Yards and other locations in eastern Canada.
http://trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/decapod.htm
Cheers
Roger T.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the EM1 was actually the smallest of all the Yellowstone's built.
I am not to sure of brass. I was looking into it at one time but after major problems with my other brass models occured. I would rather go through the conversion process of a non brass locomotive.
I'm clan lines brother I have the prints of the M-3 M-4 class locomotive. The only difference I see in tenders is the top gear. the auger motor is at top and curves instead of straight bends. the difference of 1' is with a knuckle on. otherwise it's a perfect match. besides that point the em1 has a lower boiler pressure then the M-4, but in modeling point detail doesn't have to be perfect. think of a 2 foot rule view point. if it looks good then and operates like prototypical with 120 or more ore cars go with it.
Tend to agree that the EM1 would be a excellent starting point
finding a tender with full electrical pick ups might be the hardest part. Thinking if either a challenger or big boy one would be best. Then a all weather cab either the plastic or the brass one available thrum I believe precision scale would work. You will of course notice the front mounted dual air pumps on the smoke box front' also available.
I would recommend the small sand domed version of the EM1 to eliminate the large covers extending from the front sand dome.
Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.
Quote from: GN.2-6-8-0 on September 12, 2014, 08:21:40 PM
finding a tender with full electrical pick ups might be the hardest part.
GN-
It's not hard to convert a tender to all-wheel electrical pick-up so don't let that slow you down.
-- D
If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones
Quote from: ryeguyisme on September 14, 2014, 10:19:31 AM
If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones
Maybe they are sought after by you and folks by where you live but the B&O is a roadname that sells a lot more than the DM&IR. You may think a lot of people would by them but the fact of the matter is that a great deal of research is done to evaluate what products are most likely to sell a sufficient quantity to be both worthwhile and profitable.
For instance Bachmann generally does not make very many undecorated locomotives anymore because they have found that sales are not sufficient to justify the production of undecorated models anymore. Most people want Ready-to-Run in this day and age so that is what they make, even if you and those at your club or locality would buy something doesn't mean the majority would do so.
In fact, I am sorry to say that your statement that is insinuating the DM&IR M-3's or M-4's would be more profitable than the B&O EM-1's is not accurate. Marketing research completed by several manufacturers has shown the B&O name alone to influence greater sales of the models regardless of the particular model. This is linked to the fact that there are many more fans of the B&O than the DM&IR just because the B&O was a larger railroad and operated in areas with a larger population as opposed to the DM&IR which operated mainly in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Although there are a few large cities in those two states, and many people from that locale are fans of the DM&IR, it is nothing compared to the sheer number of fans the B&O has. The B&O operated in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New Jersey and New York. So if you combine all the B&O fans from 10 different states in addition to any other fans it may have from elsewhere, there would be a much larger number than the DM&IR which was a more regional railroad which limited it's fan base. Even though there are a lot more B&O models made, it wouldn't have much of a negative impact on EM-1 sales, sales figures have supported this even though one might think it might make an impact.
At the end of the day, even though it isn't what you want to hear, there is a much greater demand for a B&O EM-1 in the United States as a whole than a DM&IR M-3 or M-4. In Wisconsin and Minnesota I am sure many people would want a M-3 or M-4 but it isn't nearly enough to justify Bachmann to produce the model since Bachmann produces their models in large quantities to facilitate their lower price points which is a main selling point for their products. If Bachmann were to produce the model you seek, most people would not buy one because the price point would be double or triple that of the EM-1 since they would not be able to sell as many and therefore produce as many. So that puts you in the category of being better off buying a brass model if you really want the model or pitching the model to another company who makes smaller runs (but also is more expensive).
Spoken like a true B&0 fan ;D
Quote from: GN.2-6-8-0 on September 14, 2014, 06:20:28 PM
Spoken like a true B&0 fan ;D
Actually I am not much of a B&O fan, I only own a few B&O locomotives but the EM-1 is one of them. I bought it just because I like articulated steam. I also have two Southern Pacific Cab Forward 4-8-8-2's,a Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4, and a C&O H-4 2-6-6-2 in addition to my B&O EM-1. My favorite railroad has always been Santa Fe.
I suspect with the oncoming of 3D printing that making smaller amounts of diverse models could become a reality . When metal molds are no longer necessary and computer files are used to create parts instead , costs could come way down. Micro-Mark 's current catalog has a 3-D printer for sale on its cover, eventually larger printers could be manufactured. John2.
Quote from: ACY on September 14, 2014, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: ryeguyisme on September 14, 2014, 10:19:31 AM
If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones
Maybe they are sought after by you and folks by where you live but the B&O is a roadname that sells a lot more than the DM&IR. You may think a lot of people would by them but the fact of the matter is that a great deal of research is done to evaluate what products are most likely to sell a sufficient quantity to be both worthwhile and profitable.
For instance Bachmann generally does not make very many undecorated locomotives anymore because they have found that sales are not sufficient to justify the production of undecorated models anymore. Most people want Ready-to-Run in this day and age so that is what they make, even if you and those at your club or locality would buy something doesn't mean the majority would do so.
In fact, I am sorry to say that your statement that is insinuating the DM&IR M-3's or M-4's would be more profitable than the B&O EM-1's is not accurate. Marketing research completed by several manufacturers has shown the B&O name alone to influence greater sales of the models regardless of the particular model. This is linked to the fact that there are many more fans of the B&O than the DM&IR just because the B&O was a larger railroad and operated in areas with a larger population as opposed to the DM&IR which operated mainly in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Although there are a few large cities in those two states, and many people from that locale are fans of the DM&IR, it is nothing compared to the sheer number of fans the B&O has. The B&O operated in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New Jersey and New York. So if you combine all the B&O fans from 10 different states in addition to any other fans it may have from elsewhere, there would be a much larger number than the DM&IR which was a more regional railroad which limited it's fan base. Even though there are a lot more B&O models made, it wouldn't have much of a negative impact on EM-1 sales, sales figures have supported this even though one might think it might make an impact.
At the end of the day, even though it isn't what you want to hear, there is a much greater demand for a B&O EM-1 in the United States as a whole than a DM&IR M-3 or M-4. In Wisconsin and Minnesota I am sure many people would want a M-3 or M-4 but it isn't nearly enough to justify Bachmann to produce the model since Bachmann produces their models in large quantities to facilitate their lower price points which is a main selling point for their products. If Bachmann were to produce the model you seek, most people would not buy one because the price point would be double or triple that of the EM-1 since they would not be able to sell as many and therefore produce as many. So that puts you in the category of being better off buying a brass model if you really want the model or pitching the model to another company who makes smaller runs (but also is more expensive).
If what you say is true, then why are there not more Great Northern, Northern Pacific, CB&Q, Milwaukee Road, Soo Line, C&NW (the goes on for quite some time more but I will cut it short there) steam and diesel locomotives on the market? Those lines operated on just as much track (or slightly more when you figure in smaller railroads that operated under the owner ship of the bigger railroads I listed as well as branchlines) and in a similarly sized geographical area as the B&O or the other big six railroads back then and yet those lines hardly get any attention by ALL of affordable model train makers (Bachmann, Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, MTH) and are only seen as hard to find, expensive brass models that aren't ready to run or even DCC ready.
Quote from: ryeguyisme on September 14, 2014, 10:19:31 AM
If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones
Rye-
LOTS more people live near where the B&O operated than the DM&IR.
-- D
Quote from: MilwaukeeRoadfan261 on September 14, 2014, 10:35:51 PM
If what you say is true, then why are there not more Great Northern, Northern Pacific, CB&Q, Milwaukee Road, Soo Line, C&NW (the goes on for quite some time more but I will cut it short there) steam and diesel locomotives on the market? Those lines operated on just as much track (or slightly more when you figure in smaller railroads that operated under the owner ship of the bigger railroads I listed as well as branchlines) and in a similarly sized geographical area as the B&O or the other big six railroads back then and yet those lines hardly get any attention by ALL of affordable model train makers (Bachmann, Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, MTH) and are only seen as hard to find, expensive brass models that aren't ready to run or even DCC ready.
It has almost nothing to do with the amount of track the railroad operated on, rather just the proximity of where they operate relative to the two largest cities in the US.
It makes sense that the roads that operated around New York City and Los Angeles will have the most model produced since the greatest amount of the US population is in those two cities and therefore that is the largest percentage of the market.
The Great Northern operated from Seattle to Chicago, however any roads that operate mainly in the Northwestern US will not be as greatly produced because the Northwestern US is much more sparsely populated than the Northeast to the Eastern Midwest (roughly as far East as Ohio) or Southern California. The Northern Pacific ran from Seattle to Saint Paul and because they didn't run to Chicago they lost a large market of potential fans. The CB&Q operated primarily in rural and mountainous areas and didn't connect with many large (comparatively) cities aside from Chicago. The Milwaukee Road also operated from roughly Seattle to Chicago but primarily operated in sparsely populated areas. The SOO didn't even run to Seattle and had very few large cities as well. The Chicago and North Western was much like the SOO with very few large cities. Of the ones you mentioned the CB&Q is probably likely to have the most models produced because they ran through the most large cities.
New York City and Los Angeles each have a population of 20 million people roughly in their Metro areas. By comparison the largest cities that were serviced by the road you mentioned have the following populations:
Chicago 2 million
Seattle 700,000
Milwaukee 600,000
Denver 500,000
Portland 500,000
Minneapolis 300,000
Saint Paul 200,000
So if you add up all the people from all the cities that were serviced by the railroad you mentioned you get roughly 4 million people on average. If they did not run to Chicago then that is 2 million less people. The B&O has 20 million people from New York City alone, and then you add in at least 10 million more from the rest of the cities it serviced. And you have a minimum of 30 million people who live where the B&O operated compared to a max of 5 million people where all the roads you mentioned operated. So there is at least 6 times as many B&O fans compared to any of the roads you mentioned assuming the same percentage of people are railfans across the USA.
Simply put most railroads that did not operate near New York City or Los Angeles will not be produced in as great of numbers as those who did. So any rail roads in the Northwest, Western Midwest, Southwest but not southern California, Southeast or Canada/Mexico will probably have less produced just due to there being less demand.
I just tend to lurk a TON of online forums on model steam and I just more gripe for DM&IR M's than ever hearing anything to do with EM-1's, but that's just me. The other part of me is like "YEAH, I want one of those(but don't like it's B&O counterpart as much as that DM&IR prototype)" Plus the DM&IR had a lot of trackage too, they were borrowed in WWII by the D&RGW to aide in the demanding war traffic.
I'm from the east and prefer rugged western mountain conqueror D&RGW steam locomotives ;)
Why not the non-Alco pacific northwest challengers?
Why not Harriman Mikados and pacifics?
Why not non-USRA generic designs one can modify from?
All I can say for me as an enthusiastic model steam locomotive modeller I cannot wait for the fruits of the future because there's still a lot more new products to come
ACY-
Actually, the amount of track on which a railroad operated has a LOT to do with how many fans a given railroad has because it correlates highly with the number of people who were/are exposed to that railroad's activities. Now I'm not saying that the correlation is 1:1 but it is very high. Also, you must remember that long-haul railroads didn't/don't operate between Podunk and West Stopsign; they operate between large cities. It's just that some of the large, anchoring cities were far apart. That's why lines like the GN or NP are as popular as they are. It's not because they ran through North Dakota and Montana; it's because they ran between Chicago, Milwaukee, the Twin Cities and Seattle or Portland.
Identifying New York and Los Angeles as the two U.S. railroad giants is simply wrong, especially so if you are looking at railroading in the past which is what we all model. (Some model the very recent past, others the more distant past, but, by definition, we have no prototypes of the future to model.) You are ignoring Chicago which had far more railroads than NYC or LA and was/is the country's leading rail hub. Other than the SP and a couple of dedicated Deep South railroads, every line of any consequence went into or, in a very few cases, through Chicago. And I dare say that St. Louis and Kansas City had more lines than Los Angeles.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on September 15, 2014, 02:33:54 PM
ACY-
Actually, the amount of track on which a railroad operated has a LOT to do with how many fans a given railroad has because it correlates highly with the number of people who were/are exposed to that railroad's activities. Now I'm not saying that the correlation is 1:1 but it is very high. Also, you must remember that long-haul railroads didn't/don't operate between Podunk and West Stopsign; they operate between large cities. It's just that some of the large, anchoring cities were far apart. That's why lines like the GN or NP are as popular as they are. It's not because they ran through North Dakota and Montana; it's because they ran between Chicago, Milwaukee, the Twin Cities and Seattle or Portland.
Identifying New York and Los Angeles as the two U.S. railroad giants is simply wrong, especially so if you are looking at railroading in the past which is what we all model. (Some model the very recent past, others the more distant past, but, by definition, we have no prototypes of the future to model.) You are ignoring Chicago which had far more railroads than NYC or LA and was/is the country's leading rail hub. Other than the SP and a couple of dedicated Deep South railroads, every line of any consequence went into or, in a very few cases, through Chicago. And I dare say that St. Louis and Kansas City had more lines than Los Angeles.
Let me see if I can rephrase this more clearly. The amount of railroads operating in Chicago does not change the fact that the population of New York City and LA are 10 times larger. I never said either city had more railroads or trains operating. I am just saying that if you operate in NYC or LA, your railroad will be exposed to more people just because of the huge populations. Also a railroad could in theory have a million miles of track but not connect with very many large cities and another railroad could run only from NYC to Baltimore. Yet the latter would likely have more fans just because there is the potential of up to roughly 21 million people being fans compared to say a max of 1 or 2 million for the railroad operating through thousands of miles of desert or farm land or whatever the case may be where there will be far less fewer people that could be fans.
In the case of the Northwestern railroads specifically there is not many cities on the scale of NYC or LA aside from Chicago which is still 10 times smaller. Every other city has roughly 500,000 or less, with many only being 100,000 or less. Operating through cities of 100,000 people or less is negligible compared to many east coast railways that operated through NYC and other cities of close to a million people or more.
You guys going on and on about what steam loco you'd like next will not influence Bachmann in the slightest. Well, hardly anyway.
Think about us poor Canadian modellers.
For years we've had to put up with American diesels and steam locos just repainted in Canadian colours. Models that are detail wise incorrect for Canada. Take diesels for example. We usually have different steps wells, different hand rail configurations, different placement of headlights and bells, different grill arrangements and on Alco/MLW units, different sand box designs, some models different exhaust stacks, different trucks, etc., etc.. And they don't always get the colours right.
And let's not even mention steam. Not a single Canadian r.t.r steam loco of Bachmann Spectrum quality and price ever.
And you guys are discussing the need for a minor steam class addition to the Bachmann range? :)
Cheers
Roger T.
Ha! The woes of a canadian Modeler. Remember kids, there are four railroads that everyone has heard of, whether they like trains or not! Pennsylvania, B &O, Reading, and Shortline!
Quote from: Irbricksceo on September 15, 2014, 05:43:16 PM
Ha! The woes of a canadian Modeler. Remember kids, there are four railroads that everyone has heard of, whether they like trains or not! Pennsylvania, B &O, Reading, and Shortline!
Not exactly as not everyone lives in those regions. I am in the midwest region southern Wisconsin and i have never heard about the reading or shortline. but everyone here have heard about the railways that have or had ran through this area. so not totally true. base it more on region not just ohh its the B&O.
Quote from: clan line 35028 on September 15, 2014, 07:35:05 PM
Not exactly as not everyone lives in those regions. I am in the midwest region southern Wisconsin and i have never heard about the reading or shortline. but everyone here have heard about the railways that have or had ran through this area. so not totally true. base it more on region not just ohh its the B&O.
He was referring to the four railroad properties in the board game Monopoly. He assumed most people would realize that. He wasn't making a serious comment.
Wow, what an interesting conversation this has turned into ;D, well ...um how about those who are into railroads from areas they've never been to???? If they even model a specific railroad or a fantasy line? I guess famous locomotives comes first and foremost before anything else but when I first learned of the Yellowstone wheel arrangement, it was from the DM&IR and I never would've thought B&O had them, until Bachmann announced them. It was as obscure but not doubtful and a PRR 0-8-8-0 made in Brass, which I never knew existed until I had seen it at my Local Brass dealer.
I don't see why some would be up in arms over a DM&IR Yellowstone it wouldn't be a bad marketing idea considering the locomotives' popularity
Quote from: ryeguyisme on September 16, 2014, 12:06:38 AM
Wow, what an interesting conversation this has turned into ;D, well ...um how about those who are into railroads from areas they've never been to?...
I don't see why some would be up in arms over a DM&IR Yellowstone it wouldn't be a bad marketing idea considering the locomotives' popularity
Granted there are people who are fans of railroads that did not run in their locale or that they did not get to see, but the sheer number of people from several large cities make that negligible. And it would not be a very good idea for Bachmann to make the DM&IR Yellowstone in the same price range as the EM-1, there would not be a sufficient market to offset the costs of production. However it is definitely something one of the brass manufacturers could produce but you would have probably a price tag of at least $1,000 possibly even as much as $2,000 due to the limited production that would be required.
For the reasons outlined previously, if a model has B&O on it, it will sell much better than the same model with DM&IR on the side. You may not like it or want to believe it but marketing research has proved this to be the case. Certain road names sell exceptionally well because they have exceptionally large fan bases, DM&IR is not anywhere near as popular as several road names. Most people in the US have heard of the B&O railroad, however people outside of the Northwest do not even know the DM&IR exists let alone be fans of the railroad.
Well that makes sense like how B&O is on a game of monopoly and everyone would think of it more than they would ever think of the beyond rare mention of DM&IR (if it ever occurs in their lifetime) as the casual consumer in America
Like how I'm a enthusiastic 25 year old steam locomotive model railroader brass collector, I'd have to still recognize that I fall into an extreme minority. :D
The manufacturer's choices of prototypes have been dicated largely by the popularity of certain prototypes for decades. They include the PRR, the B&O, the NYC, the ATSF, the UP and SP. These lines covered large segments of the country which included major population centers, so a great many more people were familiar with these lines. Unlike the DM&IR, which operated in a small corner of upper Minnesota. As a for-instance, Penn Line made a very popular line of PRR steam model kits (later taken over by Bowser). Bower made a kit for a NYC K-11 4-6-2. Most of MDC/Roundhouse steam kits followed Santa Fe prototypes. Even the old Mantua Pacific, though somewhat generic, is fundamentally a B&O P-7. Even for diesel models, you'll find that in the past most of the models were produced with at least one (or more) of those road names.
Another funny thing, the location of the manufacturer seems to influence it. take Atlas for example. They have Locomotives from NJ Transit and Susquehanna, not exactly among the "Big" Railroads. (Though the NYSW is more important than its reputation implies, as it was among the first to fully diesel in 1945) This, I've no doubt, is in part due to them being based in NJ.
I just looked up the DM&IR Yellowstone by the way. While I'd never heard of the DM&IR before, I like that locomotive. I dounbt we'll be seeing a plasatic production any time soon, but you are right, it is handome (I like it more than then B&O one tbh, even though I model Railroads in the Northeast generically). Anyway, converting it to a reasonable facsimile should be possible. I do feel your pain. If any C&O J3-A Greenbrier 4-8-4's entered the market, I'd buy one in a heartbeat but it's brass only.... Not very generic looking so other roads really don't work there.
Typically when models are made, some combination of the following 38 road names are what allows the model to be produced on a large scale. If a road is not listed here then its impact on getting a model produced is negligible and producing a model in large quantities (and at a low price) solely for any road not listed below is probably not feasible by any large scale manufacturer. Some are extremely popular as ebtnot noted above where as others are not quite as popular. The ones ebtnut mentioned really are the top selling road names for models and merchandise.
1. Amtrak
2. Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe
3. Atlantic Coast Line
4. Baltimore and Ohio
5. Boston and Maine
6. Burlington Northern
7. Canadian National
8. Canadian Pacific
9. Chesapeake and Ohio
10. Chicago, Burlington and Quincy
11. Milwaukee Road
12. Conrail
13. CSX
14. Delaware, Lackawanna and Western
15. Denver and Rio Grande Western
16. Erie
17. Erie Lackawanna
18. Florida East Coast
19. Grand Trunk Western
20. Kansas City Southern
21. Louisville and Nashville
22. Missouri-Kansas-Texas
23. New York Central System
24. New York, New Haven and Hartford
25. Norfolk Southern/& Western
26. Northern Pacific
27. Penn Central
28. Pennsylvania
29. Reading
30. Rutland
31. Seaboard
32. SOO
33. Southern Pacific
34. Union Pacific
35. Virginian
36. Wabash
37. Western Maryland
38. Western Pacific
Quote from: Irbricksceo on September 17, 2014, 04:29:25 PM
Another funny thing, the location of the manufacturer seems to influence it. take Atlas for example. They have Locomotives from NJ Transit and Susquehanna, not exactly among the "Big" Railroads. (Though the NYSW is more important than its reputation implies, as it was among the first to fully diesel in 1945) This, I've no doubt, is in part due to them being based in NJ.
I just looked up the DM&IR Yellowstone by the way. While I'd never heard of the DM&IR before, I like that locomotive. I dounbt we'll be seeing a plasatic production any time soon, but you are right, it is handome (I like it more than then B&O one tbh, even though I model Railroads in the Northeast generically). Anyway, converting it to a reasonable facsimile should be possible. I do feel your pain. If any C&O J3-A Greenbrier 4-8-4's entered the market, I'd buy one in a heartbeat but it's brass only.... Not very generic looking so other roads really don't work there.
I have an idea for a plastic C&O J3-A 4-8-4 if you can find it. The Bachmann USRA Heavy 4-8-2 is from what I can tell, a pretty close place to start. From what can gather, all you would need to really do is make sure the tender looks correct (about the size of a USRA Long tender but with the tops of the bunker rounded towards the inside of the tender), give it a front like the one on the C&O 2-8-4 and a solid cast pilot, add a 4 wheel trailing truck in place of the stock 2 wheel one, and renumber.
what draws me more to DM&IR is what they did with their motive power. when the yellowstones took over on the main line they other mallets where put to ore dock service. they would glide a string of ore cars down proctor hill to the ore docks. tend and switch the dock out and haul the empties back up the hill. the pull back up proctor usually ate the whole tender of coal. the 2-10-2s became the yard switchers, shortline runners and passenger service until the 50's. so for such a small line they had some of the biggest locomotives on the planet and for some of the oddest jobs too. just imagine a 2-8-8-2 switching empty's around on a oredock.
ACY-
By and large, you are correct. I do think you overlooked the Chicago and Northwestern, the Great Northern, the Illinois Central, the Rock Island and the Southern RR. And there is another short list of "common" narrow gauge railroads. It must be acknowledged that many more roads are represented in rolling stock, or at least freight cars. That's probably because it's a lot cheaper to do a different paint job than to redo tooling. Also, freight cars don't show the same degree of difference between and among railroads that locomotives do.
-- D
Anything can be built with time, knowledge, sketches, dimensions, money and history. Great things can come in small packages. As in this post it's easy to get off topic! B&O is well know yes but that's not what clanline started. He wanted to find out tips on converting B&O EM1 to make A M-3 M-4 DM&IR Yellowstone. There is one nice thing with model railroading you can do what you want how you want it. Granted you will always have a few complainers, but you can never really get away from that. I do remember some time back I posted the same topic on converting a EM1 to a M-3 M-4 and got a few helpful tips. None of the reply's were off topic and no one threw manure on the subject. Simply said a lot of people should keep there mouth shut and think what would the consciences be if I said something.
Quote from: Doneldon on September 18, 2014, 04:16:49 AM
By and large, you are correct. I do think you overlooked the Chicago and Northwestern, the Great Northern, the Illinois Central, the Rock Island and the Southern RR. And there is another short list of "common" narrow gauge railroads. It must be acknowledged that many more roads are represented in rolling stock, or at least freight cars.
While true that many more railroads have rolling stock produced, they are not the reason that particular piece of rolling stock is produced 9 times out of 10. They produce the other roads in rolling stock and locomotives as well because the big road names get enough orders to offset the initial costs of producing the model, so without the big roads the smaller roads would not have any rolling stock with their name on it. That is the smaller roads rely on the larger roads to get models with their road name produced and if a locomotive or piece of rolling stock differed from what the big roads ran then it either doesn't get made or they put it on a generic model.
I sort of included the Southern with the NS/N&W since the Southern merged with NS. The other 4 you certainly can make a case for, but I had to draw the line somewhere so to speak, I could not list off every class I railroad.
Quote from: uscgtanker on September 22, 2014, 10:56:48 PM
B&O is well know yes but that's not what clanline started. He wanted to find out tips on converting B&O EM1 to make A M-3 M-4 DM&IR Yellowstone. There is one nice thing with model railroading you can do what you want how you want it.Simply said a lot of people should keep there mouth shut and think what would the consciences be if I said something.
In my first post I suggested that he just equip a centipede tender to an EM-1 to replicate the DM&IR M-3 or M-4. MilwaukeeRoadfan261 noted the changes needed to the EM-1 model to convert it to the M-3 or M-4.
A few others siggested an Akane model.
So in my opinion there were plenty of helpful suggestions made.
ryeguyisme and others noted they thought an M-3 or M-4 would be made instead of the EM-1, and I was explaining the factors that went into the EM-1 being made over an M-3 or M-4.