I have been considering taking the pony truck off one of my Spectrum Connies, making it an 0-8-0 switcher. While it sounds simple at first, I am wondering what else I might need to do to get it more prototypical.
Will I need to shorten the pilot in some fashion? The current pilot will look a bit too long, I think, if I put the loco back on the track without the lead truck.
Anyone ever done this?
I'm sure the loco will run well, just wondering how funky it will look.
The real advantage to the modification being I can use it on the point-to-point part of my layout. It will work on the 9" turntables without the pony truck.
I notice the steps to the boiler walkway come off pretty easily, too. Hmmm
Regards,
Jonathan
P.S. The other difference appears to be the headlight. The 0-8-0s on NE Rails have headlights moved near the top of the smoke box.
Ooh, I just found a former 2-8-0, converted to a B&O 0-8-0, with the headlight in the center of the smoke box, steps still attached, AAAND being used as late as 1957!
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s1704.jpg
Things are looking up.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN0562.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN0564.jpg)
Not only can you do it, the prototype roads did it too, and one that did more than most in this line was the B&O!
Engines of 0-8-0 type on the B&O were in class L, and most of those were former 2-8-0s in class E, typically E-24 and E-27.
From Northeast Railfan, the 2-8-0 page:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam2.html
Some sample E-24 photos; this series started as a copy of Pennsylvania's H-6 2-8-0, complete with squared Belpaire firebox (the PRR controlled the B&O for a while), and retained major dimensions with its Pennsy counterpart to the end, although appearance changed dramatically after 30 years of rebuildings the way the B&O did things:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo2259s.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo2232s.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo2315s.jpg
A couple of rebuilds as 0-8-0s, note the changes included shortening the frames at the front, a second sand dome at the rear for back-up moves, and a change in valve ger to long-frame Baker:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo1027s.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo1008s.jpg
Class E-27:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo205sa.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo205s.jpg
Rebuilt E-27, as class L-2:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo609s.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo609sa.jpg
Northeast 0-8-0 page:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam4.html
Check other photos, note the details (such as extra sand domes), and have fun!
I modified my post above. I found an 0-8-0 (former 2-8-0) that's still reasonably close to the original locomotive. Looks like this could be done in stages:
1. Remove pony truck. Locomotive is still operable.
2. Slightly shorten the pilot (frame) and trim down the steps a bit. Looks like how they actually did it on the prototype.
3. Move the gizmo (can't remember the name) that's in front of the cab. Believe it was moved to the side of the boiler in reality. A simple hole drilling could accomplish this.
4. Find, paint, and apply a third dome in front of the cab (the hard part).
Call me a little ignorant and naive. Didn't realize 0-8-0s were the offspring of 2-8-0s as the steam era came to a close. How convenient for me.
Thanks, J3a.
Regards,
Jonathan
Well, that's one I didn't see. And it's a Chicago Terminal engine at that. Neat!
Some of these switchers were conversions, as you've noted, and roads that went in heavily for such conversions included the B&O, the Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, at least one class of camelbacks on the Reading, and I believe the Great Northern.
Others were built as such. Life-Like's USRA 0-8-0 is one such example, and in fact the prototype would become the standard for eight-wheel switchers built as late as 1953 (by and for N&W, of course), with the usual collection of refinements and detail changes individual railroads would make.
I might also mention that one switcher class the B&O had was the USRA 0-6-0, class D-30 on the B&O. This engine is available as a very nice runner (if not the best puller) from Life Like, and is also available from Bachmann's standard line. If I were to pick the Bachmann engine, I would get a "2-6-0" or "2-6-2" variant, which has the prototype's valve gear (it's missing on the 0-6-0 proper), and hunt around for a better tender.
Otherwise, we'll be looking forward to your newest project.
I see only one problem, though--if you're like me, you'll want to get another 2-8-0 so you can have two of them again!
Well, while I work out the particulars, an LHS just got a hold of a USRA 0-8-0 in brass. I may go look at it next week. I'm still nervous about brass. It's from the seventies, needs a can motor, probably a gear box, and who knows what else (paint of course). All this fun can be had for $200. I found about a dozen name brands of folks who imported brass USRA 0-8-0s; some junk, some fixable junk, and some jewels (at jewel prices). Modifying the Connie would certainly be less expensive, and I know I have a proven runner already.
Still I do like attempting to make something out of a potential diamond in the rough.
I did see the Pennsy 0-6-0 (or 2-6-0) with slope back tender at Hobbytown ( the Bachmann version). It has the valve gear, but decidedly lacking in the detail department. I've gotten use to the Spectrums. Not sure I want to stray from that formula. Can't beat the price though ($54).
Regards,
Jonathan
jonathan-
The Bachmann 0-6-0, Mogul and Prairie are all the same loco, just with extra trucks or not. They are decent runners but lack detail. I wouldn't think that would bother you a whole lot, however, judging by you efforts on the doxie.
One thing you will need to do is put a step pilot and a usable coupler on the front. Road pilots weren't used on switchers for very good reasons, including employee satisfaction and safety.
-- D
I remember reading somewhere B&O turned alot of 2-8-0's into 0-8-0 Road Switchers in some parts of the line.
Jon: find out the maker of the brass 0-8-0. Yes it will probably need a can motor but most of the time the gearboxes were okay. I used to put jeweller's rouge into the gearbox of any brass engine and run the engine run for a minute or two in both directions. The rouge would smooth out the gears. (I believe jewellers called it "lapping".) Once the rouge was removed and the gearbox greased, I never had trouble with gears on an import.
Motors and cold soldering joints are definitely issues with older brass.
On a plastic engine you could probably shorten the road pilot and make different footboards.
You'll need a decent switcher to move all those new Bachmann B&O hopper cars that I'm sure you'll acquirew.
I think the second sand dome had more to do with the fact that the yard locomotive has to stop and start all of the time where the road locomotive may have only had to stop and start four or five times on a run.
The sand has to be deposited in front of the driving wheels. Going in reverse the last set of drivers doesn't have sand in front. Thus the need for a second dome.
By the way, my comments about using jewller's rouge applies only to metal gerars - that should be obvious but I wouldn't want someone tearing up their plastic gears.
jonathon-
I won't tell you why, but go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-SCALE-PFM-BRASS-PARTS-LOT-B-O-DOCKSIDE-SWITCHER-/190419583092?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2c55e44074
-- D
D,
What immediately came to mind was setting up my own dockside factory, rebuilding nothing but 0-4-0s. I wonder if they would sell? Talk about a niche market. I may be in a tiny club of docksider fans. As I have discovered, ground clearance is a real issue. Strange for such a small engine...
Woody,
In case I take the plunge and take on a brass loco... is jeweller's rouge an easy thing to find? Probably not a Target or Walmart item I'll bet...
Regards,
Jonathan
I got my rouge years ago from a jeweller's supply house. It was a time before the internet (yes, there was a time before the internet) and I got the address from an article about getting brass engines to run better. I also ordered some nifty tools as well.
Today, many of the watch mechanisms are quartz so I doubt there's much call for rouge. It worked great with metal on metal gears. You can get a stick of red rouge (a life time supply) from Amazon for $3.99. I'm sure there are other vendors as well. Just remember that most owners of brass engines were either happy or unhappy with the way they ran and were not going to start playing with gearboxes. My friends and I were not scared away by removing tiny metric screws!
Concerning the Ebay ad - didn't you want a mate for #98? Wasn't there a #99? You do want to be prototypical. The question is what to do with all those Varney motors. They were pretty crappy when new. The valve gear is the only thing of any value in the group of stuff.
The guys at Peach Creek Shops converted a Bachmann Connie into an
0-8-0 for their steel mill display layout. In essence they did as suggested above - remove the pilot truck, shorten the frame, and add a second sand dome. Looks real nice. The minor prototype issue with some of these conversions is that the drivers were generally larger than a typical switcher, meaning they tended to be a bit "slippery". Not enough of an issue in most cases where it was much cheaper to have the road shop do the conversion than have to buy new locos. As for brass models, one decent model of the USRA 0-8-0 was made by Akane in serveral different prototype detailing schemes. B&O never had any USRA 0-8-0's, being content with their E-24 and E-27 conversions.
The Bachmann 0-6-0, Mogul and Prairie are all the same loco, just with extra trucks or not. They are decent runners but lack detail. I wouldn't think that would bother you a whole lot, however, judging by you efforts on the doxie.
Forgive my lack of knowledge on this but does this mean that my Bachmann 2-6-2 Prairie would be an OK runner if I removed the front and back trucks and ran it as an 0-6-0 It seems like the front wheels like to derail on the frogs of turnouts.
jonathan-
Jewelers' rouge is an easy buy. You can probably find it at any home store, though it might be in a kit with two or three other grits in bar form for use on a buffing bonnet for a grinder. All full-service hardware stores will carry it because it isn't just used for jewelry; it can be used on metals for a final polish. Or, you can use polishing compound in a can like those in which auto waxes are sold. Be sure to get polishing compound, not rubbing compound which is too course. In addition to taking the corners off of the gears, you want to leave them as smooth as possible. In every case, clean out every iota of the abrasive or you'll end up wearing your gears out much faster than you want.
Joe-
Yes, your Prairie should run just fine as an 0-6-0. The front wheels can't derail if you've removed them so only the drivers have to make the turn.
-- D
This is good info, when I start on a brass loco. Now I'm looking forward to it.
I started tinkering with one of my Connies. Removing the pilot is not too difficult. The tricky part was carefully lifting the steam chest, without letting any of the rods/valve gear fall out. Then the pilot's holding tab slips right out of the frame.
I have already removed about 1/4" from the rear tab of the pilot. And I drilled a 5/32" hole about 1/4" forward of the original hole. Next I will have to remove about 1/32" of material from the pilot stand so it doesn't bump the front of the steam chest. Looks like I can cut away the cow catcher, leaving the font pilot steps in place. Never looked closely before. I didn't know both items could be in place at the same time.
The whole thing should slip right back into place when completed.
The last issue will be somehow modifying the stairs so they can be put back in place. Still pondering that one.
Will post a few pics when I get a chance.
I'm shortening the front 1/4" because that's how much overhang there it when sitting on the 9" turntable. Then my new road switcher can move back and forth between the junction and the coal mine. Point to point operations is definitely trickier than continuous running.
Regards,
Jonathan
Not essential, but a number of roads, including the B&O, and the boys at Peach Creek Shops, also would alter the tenders to a "clear vision" type with a narrowed coal bunker for (marginally) better visibility in backup moves.
An alternate idea would be to scrounge up a switcher tender somewhere, something like the one Life-Like makes to go with its 0-8-0s and 0-6-0s.
That reminds me--if you do use the original tank, remember to add a back-up light and footboards, per Interstate Commerce Commission requirements in the steam age!
I like the original tender. That will stay in place. However, I will add the rear steps and a back up light. I like lights. Already have a good size piece of brass tube to scratch up a light fixture. Just have to figure out where to connect the wires. The loco is DCC ready, so I should be able to tap into the tender's wiring harness. OY! electrical stuff. OY!
R,
J
Quote from: jonathan on July 20, 2010, 07:34:37 AM... OY! electrical stuff. OY!
That exclamation always reminds me of the "Jewish" rotary snowplow, C&TS' "OY" ;)
http://wasteam.railfan.net/snowplow/f18c.jpg
From: http://wasteam.railfan.net/snowplows.html
Don't you love how everthing ends up train related? My wife just rolls her eyes.
OK, step one is done. Honestly, it was much harder to get the coupler back in place, than it was to shorten the pilot. I decided not to cut off the cow catcher for now... just in case I don't like my modification. It's not too late to put the loco back the way I found it.
Here's a few shots. Sometimes I don't have good luck with the camera...
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2860.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2861.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2863.jpg)
Fits on the turntable now. The other Connie will be double heading with the Kanawha for the big drags.
Regards,
Jonathan
P.S. Now for the reverse light.
The rear light can. I used a 5/32" aluminum tube. GOR bulbs fit in there perfectly. Fortunately for me, the LHS is out of bulbs right now, so I'm granted a reprieve from wiring.
When I pushed the light can into the 5/32" hole, the paint scraped off the tube. I'll take a straight pin and gently scribe around the area where the can meets the tender. That should flake off the excess paint. Have a look:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2867.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2865.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2864.jpg)
Man I need to dust my equipment!
I put the light on the back, instead of the top of the tender, because it's easier--pure laziness.
Regards,
Jonathan
P.S. Scribing went well. Excess paint flaked right off--looks good. Loco still runs well, and negotiates curves and turnouts without issue. These Spectrum Connies are the best thing on wheels.
Jonathan-
I think your 0-8-0 looks great! Congratulations on another working modification, if a somewhat faster one than the last.
-- D
Thanks, D.
I'm scratching up some tender steps at the moment. And did you notice somebody forgot to put lift bars on the back of these tenders? I'm fresh out of brass stanchions. Looks like a future project.
Will start a new thread when I get some bulbs. I can't make heads or tails out of the tender's PCB board or wire color coding.
Regards,
Jonathan
At the risk of sounding like someone who says "You need to do more work!", I thought it might be appropriate to consider adding footboards and a backup light to the other 2-8-0 as well; such a combination was quite common for engines that would be used in secondary service as 2-8-0s were in the late steam era. In fact, engines as large as 2-8-8-2s had them for mine service in southern West Virginia and Kentucky.
I'll also mention that many a railroad's coal branches didn't bother with turning facilities; very often such mine run engines really did run half their mileage tender-first. Of course, that didn't do for at least one such C&O branch line that hosted passenger service behind one of the prettiest little Atlantics you ever did see. . .had a turntable out in the woods, just long enough for smaller engines like that. . .wish I could have seen that line, and ridden it, too, along with a lot of others, but I live in the wrong time.
http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-16016.jpg
http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-16248.jpg
The beauty of having two of a kind. If I blow it with one loco, I have the second one that is still original and runs just as well as the other.
If the back up light and tender steps on the first loco turns out well, I will certainly consider tinkering with the second.
You read my mind on my mining run. As in the real world, the run from my mine to the junction is relatively short. No reason an engine can't run backwards on one half the trip. On the other hand, there's the fun of running the turntable. It's good to have options... :)
Regards,
Jonathan