Sorry if this has been delt with before...I saw an Ad for an HO Bachmann 2-6-0 which states : brand new, DCC with Tsunami sound..Why then is this NOT of Spectrum statis ? Is motor not 5 pole/skewed ? Or maybe no fly wheel ? Is it that detail is low ? Or to put it another way, what DOES constitute a loco as Spectrum more than what I just described in first sentence ? Thank you...Mark
::)
And the answer is..............
BACHMANN!!!!!
More on this
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,18375.0.html
Jerry
Quote from: MarkInLA on March 07, 2012, 07:58:07 PM
Sorry if this has been delt with before...I saw an Ad for an HO Bachmann 2-6-0 which states : brand new, DCC with Tsunami sound..Why then is this NOT of Spectrum statis ? Is motor not 5 pole/skewed ? Or maybe no fly wheel ? Is it that detail is low ? Or to put it another way, what DOES constitute a loco as Spectrum more than what I just described in first sentence ? Thank you...Mark
::)
Search the General and HO forums here. The CV data is here also.
The 2-6-0 is also called the Sound Value Line. Tsunami sound. Most seem to be happy with it.
Quite a loco for the price. Around a $120 the last time I looked.
There is one here who rants about the sound value though. Cannot please them all.
Rich
It is not Spectrum "status" ("Brand" and there is a spell checker at the bottom of the window) because it is way less detailed than a Spectrum model hence, Bachmann are able to offer a sound and DCC equipped engine at a VERY affordable price.
Yes, it needs more detail added. I have two and as I kitbash my steam anyway adding the required extra details to bring it up to my modelling detail standards is not a challenge.
The two models I have are excellent runners and are well worth the price and I highly recommend them.
Mark - Thanks for asking a question about which I have been wondering also. The Bachmann GE 45 Ton locomotive is Spectrum 'qualified' whilst the GE 44 Ton isn't...'go figure.
Ray
Quote from: CNE Runner on March 08, 2012, 10:46:08 AM
Mark - Thanks for asking a question about which I have been wondering also. The Bachmann GE 45 Ton locomotive is Spectrum 'qualified' whilst the GE 44 Ton isn't...'go figure.
Ray
It's especially funny when you consider that the first releases of the 44 Tonner, according to the packaging anyway, were clearly Spectrum issues (dual-motored non DCC, a single motored DCC-ready version, then one with decoder on-board), yet you say the current DCC-on-Board version is no longer Spectrum? Though it's rather confusing it looks like the 44 Tonner joins the 2-8-0 Consolidation as a loco that has lost it's former Spectrum status...
Bill in FL
Buy a Tsunami and install it in the DCC Ready version - it's really quite simple. The assertion that the Sound Value items are inferior is a misnomer since there is an option available to have all the "bells and whistles" if that is what you prefer. Some folks out there do not necessarily want more features and are quite satisfied with the idea of a simplified soundset. It should also be pointed out that the sound quality of these locos are 16 bit digital sound just like all the other SoundTraxx products - THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUND QUALITY. There is no need to try to convince people that these products are inferior in any way since you can put any DCC decoder into the DCC ready version and have all the sound features that make YOU happy.
I beg to differ with your opinions. The cost of the Sound Value locos plus a full Tsunami is about one third less than the cost of a Spectrum DCC Sound on Board steam locomotive.
Speaker installation is a simple affair that only requires basic modelling skills - nothing to be afraid of.
These are standard line models. Bachmann standard line models have never been available with sound so it is a moot point to compare them to models in the higher end Spectrum line.
Perhaps these models should have been issued without sound leaving it up to the modeler to add the decoder and speaker? Most modelers are very happy that even if they don't want the Sound Value version the speaker cavity has been provided so that the decoder and speaker installation is very simple. Guess you can't please all the people all of the time. These locos are selling very well so obviously most people are happy with them.
Quote from: florynow on March 09, 2012, 05:44:22 PM
Well, Rich, that's probably me you are talking about that rants about "Sound Value".
If I'm sorry to be hard to please, but I've been around steam engines too much to truly be happy with half of a sound system. I can afford the way it was before and just would rather pay for a full system then buy a silent cheapy, then to get sound have to spend essentially twice as much as I did before to get sound into the engine. PF
Then follow up on your suggestions. Buy the DCC ready versions and have someone intall a full featured sound decoder and speakers and stop posting your cojmplaints.
Florynow keeps going on about coupler "crash".
I don't understand why.
When I operate, not play trains, on a model railroad and couple up to cars, the last thing I want to do is press yet another button on the DCC throttle to hear the sound of couplers. If you are switching even a small yard like Granville Junction on my old GER, as yardmaster you'll be switch 90 to over 100 cars in an operating session. Why on earth would anyone want to push a sound FX button 90 to over 100 times in a few hours? If the coupler FX was automatic, that's fine but to manually push a button? Come on, that's more of a gimmick than a required effect.
If you are switching a yard, all you really need are the bell and whistle/horns, chuff and prime mover FXs. Even the brake squeal, turbo-generator and most of the other FXs. like air relief valves, fireman shoveling, etc., etc., just become noise after several hours of concentrating on the tasks at hand. This is especially true of you turn down the volume so that the whistle and bell can't be heard from more than four feet away, those sounds almost disappear anyway.
BTW, I have spent many hours switching cars and if, from the cab, you can hear the couplers come together, then you are coupling up way too fast and or the man on the ground giving you signals isn't doing a very good job. :)
As for sound and DCC equipment models, the only Bachmann locomotives I've purchase in the past two years have been two Alco 4-6-0s and the sound provided with them is more than adequate for someone like me who is a serious "operator". I don't miss any of what I consider the gimmick sound FXs. The other 30 odd Spectrum engines I've purchased in the past are all dated from the pre-DCC and pre-sound days.
If I understand Florynow correctly, he is saying that engines like the 2-10-0, that were once Spectrum engines available with DCC and sound, have now been moved from the Spectrum to the Standard line and in moving from Spectrum to Standard have lost DCC and or sound then I do think that is a retrogressive move on the part of Bachmann.
Dudes, we are boys playing with toys, I don't care how prototypical looking.
How many run a excellent and expensive loco on code 100 rail?
Run a train on a layout while gabbing and have an accident?
How many run a loco with no crew?
Model railroading is an analogy of the real thing and all analogies break down somewhere.
Deal with it.
How many here have run a model railroad company or any kind of business?
I really hope the Powers That Be delete this thread. It has no useful value.
Rich
Amen!
It seems to me that instead of relying on the manufacturer to build a loco to suit ones needs, you should take a day or two to learn some simple and basic skills, like soldering and installing a speaker. Not really a big deal. If your refuse to to learn these simple skills, then your are at the mercy of somebody else to do it for you. If you take that road, you should be ready to accept the consequences.
I like the 2-6-0, and for the price it is an awesome value in my opinion, if I want coupler crash and brake squeal, I would spend an enjoyable afternoon installing a Tsunami, then I have a $230.00 loco, with all the sounds, and runs great. It the mindset you choose to take.
The effort you have spent complaining about this loco could have been put to better use by learning to be a modeler and not a runner. Or just take the loco to your "installer" and have him do it for you.
Bachmann hit a home run with this one, it's plain to see. Its is an excellent platform to begin with if your going to bash it and super detail it, or it is a great loco "as is" if your not. Coupler clash and brake squeal be dammed!
I refuse to pay anyone for anything I can do or learn to do myself.
HEAR HEAR!!
Quote from: florynow on March 10, 2012, 07:37:34 PM
Not everyone is like you, geared steam. Despite not liking to solder and do electrical and mechanical work on engines, I do not think I am less of a "modeler" than you. I prefer building structures and scenery. And running a railroad realistically. And besides, this pastime is called "model railroading" (which should emphasize "operating trains realistically"), it is not "soldering model electronics". I'm always amused by those who get so deep into that kind of stuff they forget that running a train is the objective of doing the work in the first place.
I'd say people that really prefer to do that kind of work ought to be building radio or computer kits, and quit thinking less of those who share their belief that electronic work has to be a primary component of this pastime and is a necessary measuring stick of competence.
I know I'm on the losing end of Bachmann's new direction that caters toward the low end and leaves guys in the middle like me out. So be it. Nothing stays the same, and things don't always go for the best for everyone.
Most of you folks appear to like things the way they are now, I don't. The end.
PF
Promise?
Pacific
I hope you meant
QuoteThe end.
But we know it is not possible.
Jerry ;)
Quote from: florynow on March 10, 2012, 07:37:34 PM
Most of you folks appear to like things the way they are now, I don't. The end.
PF
I'm 23 now and started with trains since as long I have had a memory. My father was the train man in the family, collecting gorre and daphetid kits and Mantua and MDC kits, and I was in it since day one. I had thomas, fisher price, little tikes, and legos until I got into modeling. I used to take my Dad's pancake motored bachmann daylight's to my room and hide them under my bed and stare at them for hours at only 3 or 4 years of age which resulted in a rather harsh spanking(but I never learned to follow the do not touch Dad's trains rule) And then part of collection ended up in a small avon box marked broken trains, and I was allowed to play with everything in that box like a partly built mantua pacific and a bunch of random freight cars and other model including some athearn diesels. Eventually I got my own Bachmann Plus GS-4 Warbaby and loved it so much.
I grew up with MDC kits that my father had, regardless of the fact that he didn't want me to touch those either. I built them up by myself in my early teens like a couple 4-4-2's and 0-6-0's and a narrow gauge 2-8-0 that I still have. And through high school I got a few IHC and rivarossi Steamers and a few bachmann 2-8-0's with pancake motors that would pull the paint off the wall until the axles finally split on me.
It wasn't until I was about 17 that I got my first sound locomotive, a first generation BLI hudson which I ran until the wheels ate all the electrical corrosion in the steel track I had. I eventually sold it on ebay when I lost interest in it.
Today I have roughly four sound engines-worth considering the locomotives seem to not like DC all that much with their decoders BLI/bachmann. So for now I run DC without sound. I have 2 kitbashed brass engines built on chassis that had sound systems but took the decoders out because they hindering performance and 2 unbashed brass engines I'd like to someday put decoders in but save that for a day when possibly decoders are made with durability for DC or I go DCC when a solution for me comes.
I still like my brass and kitbashed plastic/diecast engines, the only thing ready to run means to me is kitbash fodder, I have 2 decapods on layaway w/sound that will be used for just that.
I basically started with scraps, then kits, and then barely had money to buy brass and some RTR and still managed. I just got a Job for the Home Depot and hoping to move upwards with it since I love working there. But I've always been a poor person when it came to modeling, most of my track comes from donations, the club trash, or a once in a lifetime deal I struck.
That being said I can care less about a few sounds omitted from a decoder for value. You may have all the money in the world, I do not.
WOW you guys are Way out there for me. As a newbie to the Hobie. Building a layout that my family and friends will enjoy and on a semi retired budget. Let me share a story with you. Attending my first train show "Worlds Greatest Hobie on tour" Cincinnati. With eztrack part numbers, track accessory, wiring questions,and competitive prices in hand. I stopped by the Bachmann booth to discuss loop modules, wiring and gap track. I mentioned to him on my wish list to have sound locos. After listening to my situation he presented me with a Bachmann 2012 catalogue, turned to page 41 and proceded to demonstrate to me the difference between sound value and spectrum. To a novice like me it sounded like everything i was looking for at more than half the price! Not to mention my ezcomand controller can only do so much.
As i attended the show both days, Sat with the grandkids and sun by myself I noticed how much larger and more attended the Bachman booth was. Not to mention they ran out of bags and catalogs both days while MTH,Atlas and Who were those other guys? had plenty left to haul home.LOL
So to me its just good business to cater to novices today turning them into loyal customers tomorrow securing todays and future market share
Quote from: florynow on March 16, 2012, 09:26:20 PM
The problem with catering to novices only is that the veterans aren't getting the full-featured items they want. There are other people making full featured and fully detailed steam engines, but only large ones right now . Sooner or later they'll notice the void once filled by Spectrum small steam engines and fill it. I'll be there when they do. Unless it's a PRR engine :o :D ;D
PF
Yes, at about three times the price.
Quote from: florynow on March 16, 2012, 09:26:20 PM
The problem with catering to novices only is that the veterans aren't getting the full-featured items they want. There are other people making full featured and fully detailed steam engines, but only large ones right now . Sooner or later they'll notice the void once filled by Spectrum small steam engines and fill it. I'll be there when they do. Unless it's a PRR engine :o :D ;D
PF
Tell that to everyone who just bought an EM-1...
As far as small steam locos go - just plug a Tsunami into it (as I've suggested many times over)....
And as far as PRR locos are concened - Standard Railroad of the World my friend!
You "assume" way too much. I cited the EM-1 as an example of Bachmann's ongoing dedication to the Spectrum line. Bachmann usually produces one Spectrum loco a year and it's not always the same size. Everyone has different tastes. The Spectrum line is not changing or going away any time soon.
As far as mounting a speaker is concerned we have provided the mount for it in the 2-6-0. All you need to do is glue it in and connect two wires. If you can't work a screwdriver and a tube of glue I'm sure you could go down to the local train club or hobby store and ask someone to do it for you. There are also dealers out there who would be more than happy to do an install for you - give SoundTraxx a call or email them for a list of installers.
And you are correct - Bachmann is in business to make money so that we can make more trains for all of you model railroaders out there. If our business model does not please you that's okay - there are plenty of other manufacturers out there for you to patronize.
And as far as I'm concerned we don't produce anywhere near enough PRR locomotives and rolling stock! ;D
P.S. we are right about at the end of the "dissent toleration level"......
Paul
There is one thing you have missed or have yet to think of.
QuoteThere are other people making full featured and fully detailed steam engines, but only large ones right now . Sooner or later they'll notice the void once filled by Spectrum small steam engines and fill it.
Once they figure out why their sales are dropping and Bachmann's is growing, They in turn may wish to follow suit.
I myself own one of those other brands which cost me $250.00. I wish these little babies would have come out sooner so I would not have blown all that hard cash on one engine. Instead I could have both.
QuoteI'll pay it of course, but the product is ultimately more directed more to the novice than the veteran, as noted earlier ....... and veterans at some point are going to move on to other sources if not served well.
There are quite a few veterans in my area that would disagree. As one told me it is easier to detail an engine to your liking than to remove parts that are molded in place or glued in place.
I am not as experienced as you in modeling but I have sat in with a few and from listening to most of them they prefer to detail them to there liking.
I recently brought my S4 with sound value to a local club and none of them could believe the quality of the loco for such a small price. My next purchase is the 2-6-0.
We Geezers like to hang on as long as we can. lol
Rich
Rich
I have to agree. I will be 50 years young next month and try to hang on to everything as so I won't fall. ;D
I have never owned a Spectrum but have had the pleasure of watching them run.
I will say the new sound value loco's are just as nice. For Paul's sake let's give them a new name. How about SEMI-SPECTRUM or ECONO-SPECTRUM. Or we can just leave it like it is....
Jerry