Hi Bach-man,
Seems a number of us have had final gear issues on the Spectrum Consolidated 2-8-0. Any chance you could give us a run down of the best way to resolve this? ???
#1 - how to diagnose
#2 - who to call
#3 - details and pics on how to remove the broken wheel set
#4 - details and pics on how to install the new wheel set
#5 - a reminder about lubrication
I took the liberty of consolidating all of the more recent posts on the issue (too much time on my hands?) Seems to be a common problem with this unit. Thanks, Eric
11/29/08 jebouck
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,7290.0.html
11/17/08 etjensen
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,7181.0.html
11/16/08 lqdsky
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,7172.0.html
10/4/08 shayman_2001
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,6769.0.html
8/12/08 guy tyteca
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,6345.0.html
5/14/08 Dave
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5490.0.html
4/21/08 spla13
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5274.0.html
4/5/08 bigreds
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5114.0.html
4/4/08 spla13
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5095.0.html
4/3/08 bigreds
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5094.0.html
1/30/08 Dave
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4259.0.html
3/30/08 Dave
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5038.0.html
Dear Eric,
Your best bet is to contact service if you have a loco with bad gearing.
More often than not, the motor screws are loose. Here's the fix posted by Dave Goodson:
Disassembly procedure:
1) Roll engine over on fireman's side, locate forward end of reverse actuating rod under running board where it attaches to the valve gear.
Remove slot-head screw. NOT MAGNETIC! Don't lose it!
2) Roll engine onto its wheels. Remove all 4 screws and both smokebox supports (if you try to flex them out of the way, it will scratch the paint).
3) Roll engine over on it's back.
4) Remove ashpan (4 small screws).
5) Remove 4 screws about in the corners of inside of firebox under ashpan.
6) Remove one screw between cylinders under front truck.
7) Separate boiler from chassis. Pull motor wires down from boiler to reveal in-line plug. You may unplug for complete separation of boiler from chassis.
Check motor for tightness to gearbox as outlined below:
Pull the lower gear cover, 4 screws, and front support bracket on top of frame to gearbox, 2 screws, lift the motor/gearbox off, removed 4 screws on one side and 2 on the other of the gearbox, separate the gearbox halves. The motor screws are located inside the gearbox. I removed the screws, locktited (222) and lubed before re-assembly.
When re-assembling, make sure the sander pipes from the sandbox on top of boiler fit into holes provided in frame just forward of valve gear support bracket. They may spring backwards and rub on lead driver.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Although the following pdf link refers to how RCS installs abttery R/C in the 2-8-0 there also pics on how to check the gearbox screws.
http://www.rcs-rc.com/PDF/Accessories/Instructions/Install_kits/TEN_LOC.pdf (http://www.rcs-rc.com/PDF/Accessories/Instructions/Install_kits/TEN_LOC.pdf)
if on dis-assembly you find the 1st gear next to the worm gear bad . It will most likely be caused by the loose motor screws. on the other end, the last or next to last gears, the cause is more likely loose counter weights that are clashing with the rods and taking out the gears. Any way that has been my experence. Phil
Quote from: etjensen on December 01, 2008, 07:55:49 PM
11/29/08 jebouck
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,7290.0.html
11/17/08 etjensen
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,7181.0.html
11/16/08 lqdsky
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,7172.0.html
10/4/08 shayman_2001
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,6769.0.html
8/12/08 guy tyteca
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,6345.0.html
5/14/08 Dave
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5490.0.html
4/21/08 spla13
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5274.0.html
4/5/08 bigreds
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5114.0.html
4/4/08 spla13
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5095.0.html
4/3/08 bigreds
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5094.0.html
1/30/08 Dave
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4259.0.html
3/30/08 Dave
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5038.0.html
I bet that most of these posts would have been avoided if the search button was in a more visible location. Like next to the "New Topic" button. Why is it a little itty-bitty button way off in the boondocks?
Actually, it seemed like many of the posts referred to the cracked gear on the third wheel set from the front, but none of them explained how to remedy. So I will attempt to do it if Bach-man won't or can't.
1. To determine if your Connie isn't moving because of a broken gear, flip it on it's back. I like to use the styro carton it came in.
2. Remove the gear cover. It is the roundish thing aligned over (or under when flipped upright) the third wheel set from the front. As mentioned elsewhwere in this forum, use caution with the screws on these units because they are soft and the heads bore out easily or will strip easily. I know from experience.
3. Inspect the gear for a crack. Another FBI clue is the gear will spin on the axel.
4. If broken. call Bachman service techs. Ask them to send you a screw set too - an assortment of screws for the Connie in the event you need it. They will send you a set of incomprehensible schematics.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/service.php
5. Before the wheel set comes, go out and get yourself a set of hex drivers in very small sizes. Get US sizes - I got metric today thinking the thing was made in China...duh me. I'm not sure what size the hex screws are because I haven't tried it yet. I got my set at a well stocked robotics supply store. none of the hardware stores had something like this.
6. Once the wheel arrives, remove the wheel hold downs. They are the strips that hold the wheels to the frame. They run most of the length of the under carriage and have eight (8) small philips screws each. Caution with the screws.
7. Now peel back the linkage. Careful not to let the various pins and springs pop out. These things reside between the wheel mounts and upper frame. Do this over a flat clean surface so you can retrieve them easily when they do pop out.
8. Next unscrew the counter-weights. Those funny quarter circle thingys next to the wheels. Nothing comes off at this point. The only thing you will see happening is the center of the wheels will begin to pertrude (sp?).
9. This is as far as i'v gotten until I get my hex head set but I am reporting what the nice elderly service guy at Bachman told me. Next, I need to remove the linkage from the counter weights. Refer to the hex bolts adjacent the counter weights on the linkage. I want to remove any three of the four hex bolts from the side where the wheel is marked 3R on the inside. Remove two of four from the wheel marked 3L. He indicated it didn't matter which nuts you removed. I kind of got the feeling they should all be together. You should be able to free the counter weights and wheel set away from the linkage.
10. Insert the new wheel set and go in reverse to close it up.
I'm jumping the gun in relaying these instructions as I haven't gotten thru step 9 but part of this excercise is to record notes for myself later on. Anyone have anything to add?
I'm still hoping there is a more difinative set of instructions somehwere in this forum - but I have not found them yet - and I did use search.
Hope this helps someone else in my situation.
Edit: I forgot to mention to use care in re-assembling the counter weights and linkage. There may be trouble if they don't go back together exactly as original. Refer to posts on "quartering" for a better explanation. Eric
etjensen
Thanks for the break down so far.
I should have my replacement geared wheel set next week.
Since I was already going to take things apart, I took off the boiler to get to the gear box. Checked for loose screws and re-lubed. Will put that back together and flip it over for the removal of the cracked gear axel. Let us know how it ends up with the dismantle. Thanks
Got a SAE small hex driver kit today and the smallest was 3/32nd - at it was still too big. I think the nuts are 1/16th but searching google, I can't find a nut driver that small. Tried to use a needle nose wrench but I'm afraid I messed up the shape on the nut. I'm about to give up and ship this thing back to Bachmann for repair. So close but no cigar.
Eric
Hi Guys. I am new to this site, but have been a serious model railroader since 12/1968 when I got my first N Scale Aurora Postage Stamp Train Set for Christmas. By the way, I was a Senior in High School at the time. I had Lionel in the basement, but went nuts over N. Over the years I collected and then when I grew up(?) and had children of my own, I wanted something BIG under the tree, more than O/O27. Turned to G and since have a nice collection. This Christmas, I got a USA Trains SD70 MAC in the newest BNSF "Swoosh" scheme. WOW, no DOUBLE WOW. Anyway, this year decided to put the G-Scale outside after not running them for at least 2 or 3 years. (I live in FL, so it works out) I have a B-Mann Connie 2-8-0 in WP&YR. My wife bought this for me after a cruise to Alaska and a ride on the above railroad. As I said, have not run any of my G for quite sometime, so when I put the Connie on the track and hit the power, all I heard was the motor whining and there was absolutely no movement. I suspect the gears as described above. Thanks to Eric for taking the bull-by-the-horns to get the instructions to dismantle the loco and fix the problem. Since I work on my N, should not be an issue to work on something this BIG. I will let you know how I make out. Roger McCoy
Hi. According to the (excellent) 2 articles by John Lythgoe in Garden Rail a few months back, re the size of spanner needed for the Connie.....
"If the geared axle has to be replaced, an M7 socket releases the hex-head crankpin screw. 3BA or 9/32 AF are alternatives. Finger power is best used on these sockets, particularly for re-assembly".
I havn't yet tried it, but I am going to have to!
Chris
I just called service to report my loose counterweights on my new K.
While on the phone, I also asked about the broken gear on my nearly new 2-8-0.
Some guy named Bill said $50.00 for a new gear and axle.
I was dumbfounded!
I don't have a copy of the receipt for this loco, so I'm screwed.
Another shelf queen................
If that is indeed the pricing its highway robbery! Especially for a known problem part.
Yes, indeed!
He stated it several times.
$50.00.
For a 50 cent gear?
You used to be able to buy LGB gears and axles in hobby shops for under 5 bucks.
I believe the $50 is the cost of sending it to Bachmann Service for repair.
Here is the info from the warranty:
Warranty Information
Bachmann's Lifetime Limited Warranty covers motorized units only. Under the warranty, Bachmann can decide whether to repair or replace an item at their discretion.
Items less than a year old are fully covered and will be serviced or replaced at no charge when accompanied with warranty card or proof of purchase.
For items more than one year old, there is a nominal service charge for repair or replacement (prices subject to change):
$10.00 - HO & N Diesel
$15.00 - HO & N Steam
$20.00 - DCC On Board™ and Spectrum® HO and N scales
$25.00 - Williams O Gauge and Spectrum® On30
$30.00 - Standard Line large scale (except Anniversary Edition 4-6-0 locomotives)
$50.00 - Large scale Spectrum® and Anniversary Edition 4-6-0 locomotives
If you send it in you will probably get it back with a whole new mechanism. If you want parts, call back and ask for the service mamager, make it clear that you want "parts" be very clear on what you want. If they are available you will be quoted a price and shipping cost (usually a minimum of $5) if no parts are available, your only option may be to send it in.
I had a 2-6-0 Spectrum mogul which fell off a workbench when our cat bumped it off 4 feet to the floor. Needless to say it was a wreck, I stated what happened and sent it in for repair along with my check for $25 (price at the time)They sent back a whole new loco except for the tender which was the only original part I got back and even that had new trucks on it. I paid the shipping to them, and they paid the shipping back. It would have taken many parts and hours and hours of work to get that loco back together if I tried it myself. I probably would have lost a few screws along the way as well. $50 plus shipping one way seems like a good deal to me in today's world.
I have been sold on the Bachmann Warranty ever since. I have ordered parts and they went out of there way to help me, even included extra screws when I wasn't sure which ones I needed. Yes, there were times they didn't have parts I needed, I checked back later at their suggestion and finally got them.
I wish you all the best with the repairs, Call and ask for the service manager, be nice, no chip on your shoulder, and I know you will get the best help available at the time and an explanation of your options. Give it a try!!
Bill,
He insisted the 50 bucks was for the gear. I even asked 2 or 3 times because I was dumbfounded!
No mention of me sending it in for repair.
I will wait until the Bach-man clarifies this before I make a final decision.
jb
I believe I paid around $25 for the complete axel with the gear.
I paid $19nz last year for the Gear,axle and Wheels. Its real easy to fit,just be gentle with the small parts.
Dave
Waikino
New Zealand
hi,regarding the axle,gear,bachmann sent me one for nothing,as i live in aussie,maybe just lucky,but an easy fix for a great loco,good luck,i agree 50.00 is way to much,is any after market people making the axle gearassy,check it out,peter :) :)
I payed 15 pounds uk including postage from the uk HQ. Actually I bought 2 as I want to have a spare...........
Quote from: petertoot on February 04, 2009, 03:16:45 AM
,is any after market people making the axle gearassy,check it out,peter :) :)
Barry's Big Trains is on the verge of introducing a replacement drive.
I will wait for that.
jb
I purchased 2x 2-8-0 Consolidations within just a few months apart and run them for just a few hours and both showed that busted final gear .
I did not read all these countless posts about the same issue , but to me it sure looks like a common issue . Therefore instead of ordering the same plastic gears again ( or the complied axle with gear ) I decided to search for a metal gear and found some .
I am in the process of installing them now .
Of course I could not find a direct replacement , it's actually a motor pinion gear from R/C cars and it required some re-machining.
It will be a while before I end up running them again to test this setup ,
but I will post here again to let everyone know if it worked out or if something else gets busted now .
to some of you kit-bashers , does anybody has a spare lower gearbox cover ?
since I had these 2-8-0's apart since a long time , I misplaced one of the lower gear-box-covers .
to the Bachmann , can I get ( purchase ) a lower gear-box-cover for the 2-8-0 ?
Willy
CustomRCmodels
Dear Willy,
Contact the service department to see what they have available.
Thanks!
the Bach-man
The better alternative to the Bachmann gear is to order a replacement gear from NWSL part number 2226-6, $12.95 plus shipping. Machined in Delrin, should last a long time.
Final alternative is to order my motor and gearbox kit, customer install only. A little more, but warranted for life (mine for as long as I live).
Oh, $200.00, plus $10.00 shipping. New Pittman motor.
Barry - BBT
I have had the drive Axel gear on both my spectrum 4-6-0 and Cornie crack and separate under very minimal use. Bachmann's solution appears to be a new Axel and wheel and gear set , but even that they are out of stock. I sure hope the NWSL site works. On the Mogal I was able to reinforce the gear with copper bands so now it is operational, but not the Cornie.