Ok, so just picked up a couple of the black eztrack turnouts from my LHS on Friday, the left hand switch will switch to one side when you use the little momentary press button, but not the other side. When investigating further it appears that its because the little magnetic solenoid on the bottom of the switch will pull the metal plate but wont push it. There is a bare fraction of movement when pressing to push the switch to opposite side of track, and when using the little manual peg on the switch everything moves perfectly.
Unfortunately, had a friend over this weekend and we were expanding the layout and rewiring a few things and he cut the green wire from the turnout to the switch and wired in more wire, so now that its been modified, cant return it to local hobby store.
Any ideas on how to get it to switch both ways? In advance of troubleshooting issues, I have tried it with the other switch from the right hand turnout, and the right hand turnout and switch I picked up works perfectly together, but right hand switch with left hand turnout has same issue only switches one way.
Dear dp,
Any change in operation if you flip over the 3 prong plug at the turnout end?
Joe
Joe, at the turnout end, green 3 wire goes directly into the electromagnet box, there isnt a way to remove the wire. I have not disassembled the electromagnetic box yet but using voltmeter there is current hitting all three lines where they enter the box depending on which way your pressing the switch. Flipping the 3 prong plug at momentary switch end will cause it to have the same actions with opposite directions, IE if I have it one way and I press left, if Ive moved the turnout right manually, itll switch to left, if I then try to switch to right itll show the barest hint of movement but not actually switch. If I flip the plug over, same thing but now it switches when pressed to right, and hint of movement when pressed to left.
It sounds as if you have a defective solenoid on one side of your turnout . You might have a bad connection to the solenoid . By the way who cuts wires when you have connectors to unplug ?
Dear Dp,
It could be that the linkage inside has become disengaged. Take off the bootom and take a look.
Good luck!
the Bach-man
Dear dp,
If you know how to take resistance measurements with an Ohm-meter,
unplug the 3 pin connector and measure the resistance between pins 1-2, 2-3 and 1-3 on the end of the green wire.
1-2 and 2-3 should be equal to each other and around 15 Ohms or so. (Between 10 and 40 Ohms?)
1-3 should be very close to the sum of the first 2 readings.
__coil____coil__
l l l
l l l
l l l
1 2 3
Let us know your readings.
Joe Satnik
interesting. if you flip the wire connector over at the control box, the switch throws the opposite way from what it did before. this tells me that the soloniods are working the way they should, and that there is no bind in the mechanism.
therefore, the problem must be a defective control box. try connecting this switch to a different control box and see if it works.
Jward, no, it always only switches to the left on the turnout itself, flipping the connector over on the electric switch changes which one left or right causes it to go to left on turnout itself.
Jhanecker, there isnt really a pair of solenoids, its a single electromagnetic box with a tiny circuitboard on it, from what I can tell, green 3 wire runs directly into small board, then 3 copper wires loop around the box inside the shell numerous times creating the electromagnet, at a guess, the metal plate that slides inside the magnet is magnetized as well and depending on the poles of the electromagnet, determined by the current passing from the momentary switch, either pushes or pulls the metal plate which is linked to a polearm that actually moves the switch. As a side note I did say that he cut the wires on the wrong wire, wanted him to extend the wires from the electronic switch to the power box, not from the switch to the turnout(the bit that had spade connectors on it, I cut them off in order to use both switches on the bachmann grey box, and so just needed wire spliced on there). I had run to the store and came back to wrong wires cut.
Mr Bachmann, the linkage is attached properly, it throws the switch to one side, just not the other, and the manual switch does move the metal plate inside the electromagnet properly.
Joe Satnik, call me Dennis, and oddly the voltmeter returns 30 ohms for all three pairings, 1-2, 2-3, and 1-3.
The solenoid is an electromagnetic device with coils of wire at both ends in the turnout. When energized it pulls on the moving member in the center of the coils depending upon which coil is energized . The plate in the center should not be permanently magnetic. It would interfere with the function of the solenoid. J2.
Dear Dennis,
Yes, that is...different...
Can you take the same resistance readings on your good turnout for a comparison?
A close-up picture of the circuit board would help.
Concerning the green wire repair, only the center pin (#2) needs to be connected to its original destination under the turnout. 1 and 3 may be swapped.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe,
Similar results from checking resistance on working turnout , pins 1-2 read 22-25 ohms, think maybe just couldnt get the leads in the plug well enough, pins 1-3 and 2-3 both read 30 ohms on the dot.
To get a close up of the circuitboard inside the electromagnet would require disassembling it, not sure I can reassemble it afterwards, looks like it is a very tight fit.
from what I can see it looks like the print on the board is not actually serving any purpose because both the green wire coming in and copper wires running to the magnet are soldered together in pairs on top of the board, which would obviate the board serving any purpose beyond being a point to tie the wires together. Which means that its all down to whats being sent from the momentary switch determines what the electromagnet does.
just out of curiosity, try tying the 1 and 3 contacts together, then reading between them and 2. your resistance should be about half or 15 ohms. if the reading doesn't change from 30, you have an open circuit on one of the coils. if it is down around zero, something is shorted.
resistance in series (1-3) adds. resistance in parallel (1&3-2) divides.
Jward, you were dead on ting pins 1-3 together and checking that with pin 2 hovers between 15-20. So the question is if all the resistances are right, why doesnt it switch?
Dear Dennis,
I located a good EZ-Track remote switch and measured its coil resistance with my DVOM.
Before the measurement, I set the meter to its lowest ohms setting,
then touched the 2 probes (black and red) together to get a "Zero Ohms" reading.
Usually there is a "zero" button (DVOM) or a zeroing knob (analog meter) to compensate for the resistance in the wires and other parts of the meter.
If you can't zero, it usually means that the battery in the meter is either dying or dead, and has to be replaced.
Using thin metal leads from old 1/4 watt resistors to touch the internal pins of the 3 pin connector,
I read close to 19 Ohms pins 1-2 and 2-3,
and close to 38 Ohms pin 1-3 ,
which is what I expected and within the range I described earlier in this thread.
If your wiring is modified away from stock, you would need to put it back to stock to get the resistance readings I got.
If you have 2 (working, good) turnouts wired (correctly, not mis-wired) in parallel
(to try to throw both at the same time with the same momentary switch), your resistance readings should be halved.
(= 9.5 Ohms 1-2 and 2-3, and 19 ohms 1-3).
Atlas #56 is a screw terminal version of the Bachmann momentary switch.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Edit: modified momentary switch comment
Joe
I run 2 turnout's with one switch with no problem. Ido have all my turnout's connected to one power pack.
Jerry
Joe, Im not running both turnouts off the same switch, one switch per turnout. Also, I dont have a dvom, just a regular one, so cant get that precise, but using the meter I have with it set to the 10x ohm setting I get dead on 30 ohms resistance from each grouping, excepting testing pins 1-3 combined and 2 as the other lead, on this one it wavers between 15 and 20 ohms.
For further experimentation I removed the magnet box from the bottom of the switch as well as the metal plate that couples to the turnout mechanism itself. The problem appears to be that when you press one direction itll move the magnetic plate wall the way to the end of the box, but the other way will only move it 1/8th of an inch or so. Im guessing that means the coil for the electromagnet is wrong as it appears the poles are to close together instead of being at opposite ends of the electromagnetic box.
it does sound as though your coils are wired correctly as is everything else. there must be something mechanically affecting the movement of the solenoids. do you notice any resistance to movement whenever you throw it the way it doesn't want to go?
Jward, when pushing the little black manual peg back and forth, going towards the direction the electronic switch wont go to(this is toward the actual split in the turnout track), about in the middle there does seem to be some resistance/binding when compared to moving it the other way. Its fairly minor when moving the manual peg quickly, but when moving it slowly is definitely noticeable when compared to moving the switch the other way.
that bind is probably why your switch won't throw. it doesn't take much of a bind to cause problems. i"d look for a way to correct the bind if possible. this may mean disassembly.
Dear Dennis,
Do you have an Rx1 setting on your meter?
That would give you much more accurate resistance readings.
Also, your zeroing knob could be a thumb-wheel.
Your meter readings should not waver.
If they do, you have a bad (intermittent) connection somewhere, either in your turnout wiring,
your meter, your meter's internal battery connections (corroded?), your test leads, or your method of probing the 3 pin connector.
Try rotating the Rx10 knob back and forth, it might clean up the meter's internal switch contacts.
A dead or dying battery can cause your meter to waver.
Take the internal battery out and measure it with the meter set to DC Volts, on the next setting above the battery's nominal voltage.
E.g., if your meter's dial had 2V, 20V, and 200V settings, you would set it to 2V DC to measure a 1.5V battery,
but to 20V DC to measure a 9V battery.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe, Im pretty sure its because I was using a staple to tie pins 1-3 together, I had it sitting on top of the metal strips I used in the pins as the leads I have werent small enough. The only time it wavered was on pins 1-3 tied together with measuring pin 2, the rest of the time its dead solid on whatever number it settles at.
Jward, I disassembled the switch, everything looks the same as the right hand switch and moves about the same, I dont see any glaring mould lines or anything of that nature that would be adding to the resistance of the mechanics. Any thoughts on what else I should look for?
i would try to determine if the problem is in the solenoid or in the throw mechanism. if it's in the throw mechanism, lubing it might help smooth things. i"d consider a graphite absed lube such as kadee grease-em. it works well for binding couplers, and should work well here too.....if it's in the solenoid, i wouldn't try to lube that, graphite and some oils conduct electricity and may cause more problems.
Dennis,
I had one turnout acting the same but in both directions. I eventually took the mechanism apart and replaced the small wire leading to the points with a piece of piano wire. I am going to do all my switches this way as it seems to throw them easier. That little piece of wire that is installed from the factory sometimes is not strong enough to pull the points.
Another thing that has not been mentioned is if you have ballasted or tried rusting your rails. The glue or paint may have gotten between the roadbed and the manual slide bar.
I have done this and regret it.
Jerry
Jward,
I actually did put greasem in it. No dice on that.
Jerry, the wire leading to the points, you mean the little piece that runs from that plastic housing that slides against the gear to the little u shaped plastic on the bottom of the strip of plastic tied to the bottom of the points? Or do you mean the points themselves in the center of the turnout?
Also, track is not ballasted or painted yet, just brand new out of the package. I did notice that oddly enough it would appear that there is some grease on it, Im wondering if some of the greasem ran to the magnet and is shorting the poles a little. Going to try stripping the grease off with alcohol, of course will take a day or two to dry enough to try it again, but I will let you know how it progresses.
Ok, so I wound up just pulling that switch and buying another one, as well as another right handed switch, this time of the grey road bed versions and now have the same problem with the right handed switch. Four other switches on the layout all work fine, this one has the same problem as previous switch. Are these really just that bad of switches? I have to say Im losing faith in the bachmann switches at a rapid pace with this issue.
Dennis,
Are you using the old momentary switch or the new one?
What is your source of accessories power?
Do you have a Harbor Freight store near by?
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=volt+meter
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-69096.html
Joe
Joe,
new momentary switch, new wires, new turnout, this one is not split at all but runs green wire to momentary switch, red wire to bachmann dc controller. I picked up a total of four switches Friday, the other three all work fine, this one does not, even switching the momentary switch and red wires, it still has the same problem.
I know nothing about Bachmann turnouts, but you talk about a red wire and a green wire. Don't you have a third wire?
Doneldon,
Red is the power cord, green is the 3 wire from switch to turnout.
You beat me Hunt.
Joe does this turnout that gives you problem's in the same location as the other problematic turnout. It could be the surface is not level for the turnout. I had one binding until I sanded it smooth. Now I am starting to countersink my foam and cutting a thin piece of plywood to mount turnout on.
The wire I am talking about is the one from the plastic gear to the manual throw bar. I have only modified two so far but they operate far better than the thin wire that comes installed.
Jerry
Of course. I guess I got my wires crossed.
Jerry,
No the turnout is actually in a completely different location, one that was an issue prior was a left handed turnout in one spot of the layout, this is a right handed turnout in a completely different spot, both turnouts were mounted on regular plywood, and moving the turnout elsewhere does not fix the issue.
Try a different source of AC accessories power, not the Bachmann Controller.