Bachmann Online Forum

of course I mean I'm modeling a locomotive after a model of another modeler known as the great poo-bah, "The Wizard of Monterey" of course I'm speaking of John Allen, as an early model railroading Icon, he paved the way introducing the numerous ideas we now call everyday modeling. His model railroad came to be known as the Gorre and Daphetid

Onto the project: an extensively kitbashed 4-10-0, I've studied this locomotive for years, it is one locomotive of two known surviving locmotives that escaped the fire that copletely demolished a perfectly wonderful piece of art. Andy Sperandeo has this locomotive in his possession as he was a close friend of John's.

To date only one person has replicated this locomotive, built by Dave G. of the yahoo group dedicated to the memory of this artist

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GandD/

you can see the photos there if you join, as well as a whole boatload of information.

(http://i49.tinypic.com/mw2muw.png)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/24wu8m8.jpg)
*Cropped photo from a slide (*courtesy of the NMRA)

i recently acquired a decent amount of parts to build the locomotive, the most basic would be a Varney heavy consolidation boiler (got two of the same varney engines at the Springfield show)

(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs195.snc3/20260_1257868441827_1083090179_30648334_3195300_n.jpg)

and I just won a spectrum 2-10-0 with sound on ebay for about $132 tonight

and I'm hoping to crop the decapod down for this boiler to fit on the mechanism(believe me I will) and I have to replace the cylinders(with varney casey jones cylinders) and the main siderods(replaced with longer ones) all so I can fir the 4 wheel pilot under it(also casey jones)


the only fear I have is will the decapod mechanism stand up to this massive weight increase? As the new boiler is going to weigh a whopping 20+ oz. I have a spectrum 2-10-2 that is out of commission because the teeth on the gearing(from motor to axle) chewed itself out(which I still have yet to replace those gears)

I will update on progress as the locomotive comes in the mail and I do some work.(with being unemployed I tend to have  an excess of time to squander)  :-\


Opinions and any help would be useful if anyones willing to share :)

Good luck on the project and on the job search (my wife is in your shoes as well).

C&O J3a 614

http://www.piercehaviland.com/rail/railimages/Njstea2.jpg

thanks I'm going to need ittt 


I was wondering, has anyone had trouble with the spectrum decapod's gearing??

You got quite a deal on that 2-10-2, far better than the 2-10-0!  ;)

Quote from: Guilford Guy on March 04, 2010, 05:27:40 PM
You got quite a deal on that 2-10-2, far better than the 2-10-0!  ;)

I know, and I'm grateful thats why Im hoping to get it running again ;) maybe I put a name plate on it and call it the "Great Guilford) ;)

UPDATE: 3/8/10

Gathering parts together and awaiting the arrival o my spectrum 2-10-0 w/sound

did some tweaking with consolidation side-rods and some casey jones mechanism parts along with the pilot truck and the cylinders

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0308001518.jpg)

Comparison photos

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/34crop.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0308001518a.jpg)


I'm realy excited to be able to commence with this project, I've been waiting years and years to do this :D

You could use brass gears for a little more robust drive train and possibly use a first gear with fewer teeth so you can rev the motor without sending the loco down the track at light speed.  That's OK for a model like this as a 10-coupled locomotive would be a drag freight loco, not a passenger speedster.  You might want to rething the Varney cylinders; they could look a little lightweight for what would have been a very powerful locomotive.

well the original model had those cylinders and without it, it wouldn't have the same appearance

Rye,

I think the cylinders look fine; the "prototype" of G&D No.34 would have had 50" drivers vs. the 63" or higher drivers of the SP prototype 4-6-0 the Varney model is based on, and would have had the effect of increasing the tractive effort with a given cylinder size and boiler pressure.

This formula, expressed as best as I can with the limits of a computer keyboard vs. a manual typewriter,  is (85%PXbXbXs)/D, or 85% of the boiler pressure, multiplied by the square of the cylinder bore (or the bore multiplied by itself), and multiplied again by the stroke, and the whole business divided by the driver diameter.  A smaller driver diameter thus does not reduce the piston thrust as much as a larger wheel does, subject of course to another formula, the factor of adhesion (typically taken as 25% of the weight on the drivers for steam engines).

Evidence of at least the visual "correctness" of No. 34 may be taken by comparing it with an engine that would have been of comparable overall size, N&W's M-2 4-8-0, which had 57" drivers:

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=11742

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=817

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=819

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=820

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&id=193&Type=Picture

The Reading I-10 (basis of the Vaney model and Bachmann's old 2-8-0), as I recall, was a very large 2-8-0 weighing something like 150 tons, comparable to similar large engines on the Delaware and Hudson and the Western Maryland.  I would assume G&D 34 would weigh about the same, but would have two more axles to spread out its weight.  It would be a locomotive meant to run on relatively light rail compared with that of a contemporary (1920's era construction) front-line coal drag engine on the Reading, so the machine is not totally implausible.

You've mentioned that you are relatively young (21 or so), and I was wondering how you got interested in modeling steam and in the G&D.  The image us old fogies (I'm 54) are "supposed" to have of younger pups is that you are into computers, I-pods, ear-pods, etc., and other degenerate activities like bad music.  You don't seem to fit that bill--and for that matter, neither did I back in the 1970s!

Well #34 was a parts built engine, the cylinders and pilot wheels from a varney casey jones **and the drivers were Mantua 50" drivers, now finding a ten coupled mantua locomotive on Ebay is rather tough, and the spectrum decapod seems to fit the bill. I think to wait a number of years before I had most of the parts collected and then to be able to have it easily  put together with DCC AND Sound, makes it much more enjoyable to think about. This locomotive was something I studied since I first watched the VHS on John Allen's G&D featuring the only motion footage ever created of his layout. Seeing #34 in action is rather awe-inspiring at the age of 8


I guess it would've had to have started when I was at the ripe age of 4 or so, my Dad had been collecting the MDC G&D replicas ever since they came out(and by now it's a rather ridiculous stockpile of cars) and I just happen to play with some of his already built models and he used to get furious. I had also used to get into his book "Model Railroading with John Allen" and like I mentioned in another thread it was the only book of that age where I didn't put crayon drawings into, and I come to appreciate that now as the book is still altogether now 17 years later with all the pages together, however the binding disintegrated from years of use. My Dad has another copy locked away just for collectors purpose and thats in good condition.

But my inspiration was a rather rebellious one as I always used to sneak into the cars and the book and the locomotives at a certain point. I grew up not using Ready-to-Run locomotives, I grew up building MDC kits such as the Atlantic and 0-6-0 switcher, I even have an outside frame HOn3 2-8-0 of my father's and even to this day I'd rather buy a locomotive in kit form from the 40's 50's and 60's before I'd buy a RTR besides the ones with sounds or the ones that would fall victim to the kitbashing torch(which happens quite alot)

As I grew older my dad came to respect my creative and artistic nature and he used to brag to other modelers and general curious people that barely any of my locomotives ever survived their actual manufactured appearences as they mostly get modified quite heavily. I had a tendency to take locomotives apart and reassemble them to how I see fit.

I do collect  bachmann standard 2-8-0's(the pre-spectrum years) quite alot for their boiler shells and other parts despite the fact that the mechanism were rather flimsy. However the white encased pancake motor in the newer ones, was something to respect besides its outdated and rather noisy operation. When tweaked just right these models pulled the paint off the wall(with one traction tire and a kitbashed weighted 0-6-2t tender behind it) It was alot of fun at the age of 14-15 I'd say.


Now don't get me wrong I still listen to music that has the rent's running for the hills and go out and have my youthful fun but I am still very devoted to the hobby. And yes, alot of the older guys at my Model Railroad Club are kind of shocked that theres someone of my age that literally worships the G&D, they find it rather amusing and entertaining.

by the way, thank you for the N&W reference :)

You're quite welcome.

My own becoming a railfan and model enthusiast dates back to about your same age (4-5), growing up in a house in Wheeling, W.Va. adjacent to the B&O at the south end of the city.  The location was adjacent to an early intermodal facility (just "piggyback" then) which used "circus" loading (backing trailers onto a string of flats with an old tractor (trailer) unit).  I remember the beat-up tractor as lacking front fenders and headlights, only two axles (common then in the east).  The flat cars were a mixture of converted 40 and 50 footers and early long flats, all in either railroad markings or Trailer Train's early red scheme.  Steam was gone by then, power was F-units, GP7s and 9s, and EMD and Baldwin switchers (remembered mostly because they sounded different).  I do remember we still had a single passenger train running then (research indicates it was discontinued in 1960).  Color schemes for all of this was the classic B&O first generation blue and grey (F-units and the boiler-equipped GP7 on the passenger train) and blue with Roman lettering (freight GPs and switchers). 

My mother had spent part of her childhood in this same house (which predated the railroad in Wheeling by about 10 years, and never did have central heat), and she recalled when she was a girl that the piggyback yard had then been a stock yard, and she would look through holes in the fence at the cows--she was a great animal lover--and the cows looked back at her.  That was entertaining for her in the 1930s.

There were also old movies on the tube back in my own childhood, among them Cecil B. DeMille's "Union Pacific," "The Great Locomotive Chase" (on the Walt Disney program--this would be early 60's), and old silent stuff, like the Keystone Kops and Harold Lloyd comedies (Lloyd may well have been the greatest stunt man of all time--look him up if you aren't familiar with him, some of what he did was amazing.  Personal favorite, "Speedy," in which Lloyd has the last horsecar franchise in New York City, and he has to keep his car running in spite of efforts to cause him to loose the franchise.  Trolley routes were valuable then!)

What would one of my posts be without links?

My favorite road:

http://www.cohs.org/

Why we still like big steam, in this case on the N&W:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV8rA3UE-lc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF-6FKD0pr0

From Kalmbach's website for Classic Trains:

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=607

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=608

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=ss&id=18

Enjoy.

If you look at the post in the General discussion under "for steam lovers", thers a good black and white movie called "Danger Lights" which maybe 80 years old but as a kid I loved it so much I used to play it over and over.

Speaking of more N&W a really really good movie is called October Sky, love that movie as well, it has Norfolk and Western steam in it.

okay just got the decapod in the mail and I'm breaking it in, however I don't like how the chuff is starting without any wheel rotation, or when I slow down the wheels stop but the chuff continues? ??? I'm confused I hope this is all a part of breaking in the locomotive first or if it just needs an adjustment with CV's?

Here it is about 15 minutes out of the box:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs0pGw9u0rM

it also had part of the bottom frame not intact so I fixed that

Construction Continues ;D ;) :) ;D ;) :)

Disassembly:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0311002215.jpg)

Had to cut down the motor frame:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0312001241.jpg)

Added pilot truck:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0312001242.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0312001242a.jpg)

Cut down on the cylinders and modified it for the assembly as well as a bit of assembly ;)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0312001242b.jpg)

And Finally put the pieces together to see how it looks so far:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/0312001254.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/34.png)
^Reference

I see that the front truck on the tender has side rods. It's a booster engine so there should be an exhaust stack on the tender too. You're off to a good start. I like the way you mounted the front truck on the engine. I feel that's the only way to get that truck to track successfully.

Quote from: pdlethbridge on March 12, 2010, 02:26:18 PM
I see that the front truck on the tender has side rods. It's a booster engine so there should be an exhaust stack on the tender too. You're off to a good start. I like the way you mounted the front truck on the engine. I feel that's the only way to get that truck to track successfully.

The booster truck on the tender is called a Franklin Booster, I have about five of these nifty things in HO, and I continue to collect them as I come across them. You can usually find them by precision craft co. for about $14-$24 they can also be found on some brass locomotives and the newer rivarossi 0-8-0's.

The front pilot is a lot less trouble than I thought it was going to be, the real problem I face at the moment is the side rods and valve gear assemblies. The Varney side-rods are long enough but they're die-cast so they like to break easily. I took the main rods off an older bachmann 2-8-0 and I hope that'll possibly solve my problem, but I'm skeptical because it doesn't have the same appearance to it.

Rye,

That music on your YouTube channel--Argh!!!

I had (and still have) a rebellious streak in music myself that drove my parents bats at times, but it took a different turn from yours--old-time stuff!  I was "country when country wasn't cool," taking a liking to what are now classic country performers like Johnny Cash and Hank Snow, loved the idea we had a live radio show in Wheeling called the WWVA Jamboree that was nearly as old as the Grand Old Opry in Nashville on WSM.  Later, when country got too modern for my taste in the later 1970s, I "discovered" a throwback called blue grass.  Surprisingly, blue grass is a relatively modern form, dating from the 1940s, was primarily "invented" by Bill Monroe as he searched for a distinctive sound for his own band at the time (and he thought some of the country sound was getting too "modern" then!)

Funny thing--Johnny Cash in his early years, and the Seldom Scene in the 1970s, were considered revolutionary in their fields at those times!

A sample or two from a favorite band of mine, the Seldom Scene; one clip is from the 1970s (and sadly the band is not the same, especially since John Duffy passed away at the relatively young age of 56):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk9vhhGyRyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m180ipearwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Q-PhU8I-I&feature=related

While on the subject of vintage sound, check out this video of Mike Dodd's now dismantled New River Division of the Virginian Railway.  For atmosphere, Dodd found an old 1950s radio and had a friend record a "broadcast" from 1954 that he had run into the radio from a CD player. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmAT6p1cb9k

http://www.mdodd.com/virginian/index.html

http://www.mdodd.com/virginian/sound-module.html

I wonder if anyone else has appropriate background sound (which could be just music, and my blue grass is certainly appropriate for any Appalachian railroad)--and I wonder what the appropriate sounds would be?

This is from some fellow in California who is also a C&O man; great sounds from just the trains:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2B6xxDRJAM&feature=related

If you're hoping to "recreate" part of the G&D, you may want to consider a second Russian Decapod to simulate the Jim Findley's Tioga Pass connecting service.  Findley would have used a Frisco version of the engine, as that was all that was available from Pacific Fast Mail at the time:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/locomotives/slides/Tioga_Pass_right_1.html

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/locomotives/slides/Tioga_Pass_left_3.html

Other comments:  I wouldn't worry too much about Varney-Bowser cast rods; if John Allen used them, they would have held up well enough.  They don't have tor transmit thrust like the prototype does!

Took a look at your Christmas display videos as well,  Did I see an AHM 0-8-0 (Indiana Harbor Belt prototype) among the engines on a passenger train?  This also would have been a nice display in the Model Railroad Showcase promotion Martinsburg's Main Street organization used to run.

Enjoy, and good luck at finding work again.   

As much as I like some C&W, I'm more into Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller like Chattanooga choo choo

I just put in a new post on a real Jet Train; there's a music sample there you will appreciate.

I did! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes that was a newer Rivarossi 0-8-0, I have a tendency to collect them

errr yes that's my christmas display I put on every year for the kids waiting in line to see santa, my apologies as the engine was rather speedy since the layout dirties up while I'm not always at my post to operate it(need hot cocoa sometimee) I even had a double header of these babies pulling a freight when my Spectrum 2-6-6-2 needed maintenance.

As far as music I listen to alot of music that just happens to be the music I listen to at them moment, but anything else beats rap and some of that hip hop i can't stand it, the subliminal and direct messages kind of disgust me.

Back to the project: The die cast side rods kept breaking on me when I was trying to bend them a bit for main driver clearance not to mention the dremel had to be used to shim them down a bit, and they both broke in like three places, so superglue was used :-X

I'm actually needing to get back to work on this project as I said I'd complete it and I've become overwhelmed by needing to fix the drivers :o

If I had known you were starting this project, I wouldn't have given away the Bowser 4-8-2 and Spectrum 2-8-0. Oh well, does Bowser/Cary still carry side rods?

Quote from: Guilford Guy on March 14, 2010, 05:24:26 PM
If I had known you were starting this project, I wouldn't have given away the Bowser 4-8-2 and Spectrum 2-8-0. Oh well, does Bowser/Cary still carry side rods?

Alex -_____-


haha, um I talked with the Bowser guys at Springfield in January and they said they're discontinuing their whole steam line due to the massive market of RTR models and such. I wouldn't blame them when they price their kits higher than that of it's RTR competition. So I doubt they'll have much of that in stock :(

Just a point of interest.  I talked with the Bowser guy ten years or so ago.  He said that was looking for magnets for the motors in their street car.  Fro china they had this reply.  For that price we can make the whole motor.  So guess who quite making motors.  That was just the start of production going over seas.

Quote from: RAM on March 14, 2010, 10:35:03 PM
Just a point of interest.  I talked with the Bowser guy ten years or so ago.  He said that was looking for magnets for the motors in their street car.  Fro china they had this reply.  For that price we can make the whole motor.  So guess who quite making motors.  That was just the start of production going over seas.

I'm not a fan of watching our industries go overseas. Now the Chinese middle class is growing and theres more and more Chinese model trains coming out now that more people can buy them D:

Today I did some grinding away at the boiler so the mechanism will fit nicely in without problem. It's coming along, I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with the side rods and valve gear. This is one of my toughest projects yet but I'm so dtermined I won't give up on the dream :)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/IMG_4035.jpg)

Why don't you have a look here for parts. http://www.bowser-trains.com/misc/misc.htm (http://www.bowser-trains.com/misc/misc.htm)
Look in misc parts 1. lots of valve gear, main rod parts

Quote from: pdlethbridge on March 16, 2010, 04:29:36 AM
Why don't you have a look here for parts. http://www.bowser-trains.com/misc/misc.htm (http://www.bowser-trains.com/misc/misc.htm)
Look in misc parts 1. lots of valve gear, main rod parts

I've finally decided just to stick with the bachman old 2-8-0 side-rods as they're flexible and won't break. I also stopped procrastinating and got to work on the valve mechanisms as well:

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/IMG_4038.jpg)

have one side done now, once the glue dries I'll do the other side, and then the final mechanism assembly. Then it'll be all down to doing the rest of the detailing the boiler and then construction of the tendet :)

Installed the cylinders onto the mechanism so it's there permanently, then went to work adding on the driver and valve gear on one side.

I gotta say after getting past the hard part I'm really pumped about this project and my determination has resurfaced :)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/IMG_4047.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/IMG_4046.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/ryeguyisme/34crop.jpg)

Rye,

I have to say it's looking pretty good.  My first thoughts on the use of the Russian decapod was to wonder if the axle spacing would come out right, and also wondered whether its tall, rear-projecting motor would fit in the boiler casting; you got positive answers to both questions.  I'm also looking at the Reading main rods you used, and I think they look darn close to what Allen did.  I have to think that either Allen used Varney Reading rods (which would make sense, having these engines handy and considering that the "prototype" would need a massive rod to transmit power), or that Varney used the same part for both engines--or that both statements are true!

Some questions to think about (or at least, some I would think about):

How do you plan to use the engine?  Will it be a display item, a "fantrip" engine, or will you attempt to recreate a small part of the G&D?

If you are to recreate a small part of the G&D, will it be some portion of Allen's road as built, or will it be some "unmodeled" portion? 

What do you plan to run with it?  My choice would be a mixture of modern cars--and some vintage kits, too, like the Silver Streak cars.  In fact, about 1950 or so, Silver Streak had a modeling contest utilizing their cars, in which Allen entered (and won one of the prizes, of course).  Allen's choice was a PFE reefer with his usual weathering job, part of which included some unweathered boards representing a partial wood siding replacement, and cleaned off numbers and reporting marks (something yard clerks used to do so they could read these for their reports).  I'll have to check the slides on the G&D site to see if the car shows up "in service." 

Finally, I have to wonder if the 34 would have ever had any "sisters" on the roster, and I wonder also what the engine would have looked like in an earlier time (say, "as delivered" in the 1920s), or as a freshly shopped engine.

Finally, do you plan to recreate any other G&D locomotives?

I've assembled a few Bowser and Mantua engines myself, and can appreciate that such a model can be tuned to suit you without worrying about messing up a factory mechanism or paint job (or not having to go through the trouble of stripping the engine for redetailing and painting), along with the robust construction of these old kits.  Properly cared for, they should last almost forever; Allen himself had ancient models at the end that ran as well as anything available at the time, including the ten-wheeler and the homemade 34. 

Keep it up, and let us know what the old heads at your club think when you show up with the finished project!

Is the stroke the same?

I intend to run the engine so much as I please and as far as recreating stuff I might recreate his second layout or third but that depends. Locomotives: I have all the MDC replica locomotives: the shay and the 2 0-6-0's So I guess you could say I recreated something but I do plan to recreate some if not all the locomotives. I've done quite an extensive study on them.

As far as the mechanism is concerned, I'm trying to tweeak it and work out the binds and so far it has a problem running in reverse, where it clicks somewhere and after about a dozen cycles, the drive wheels will lock up. So I'm kinda stumped on that :-\ Trying to figure out what it could be.

Any hints or suggestions would be appreciated  ;)

That is why I asked about the stroke. It could be the piston coming out of the cylinder at the end of its stroke. A plastic ring at the cylinder could extend the travel of the piston

I doubt it's the pistons and the main rod thats causing it, I did have to tighten a screw on one the the main driving rods, but didn't solve the problem right away. I think it may be coming from the valve gear but I'm not so sure

Rye,

You probably already know this, but. . .

That bit about the clicking sound suggests a possible bent or misaligned power pick-up.  With a plastic frame, Bachmann uses a pair of pressed copper or similar material sheets, located under the bottom retaining plate, and hooked up to the engine's electronics.  These pickups are small so as to be almost invisible from normal viewing angles, and give driver pick-up from both sides of the engine (as opposed to the single side with a metal frame and tender return in classic models), and as a result are quite delicate and easy to bend.  In such a state, they can hang up on driver spokes.  You've been really working on your engine from necessity, and it's possible this may be the problem.  In any event, based on your description, that would be the first thing I would check, bending the parts carefully back to proper position if needed.

If that were not the case, I would then start checking the valve gear and other parts as you suggested.  A classic way the old-timers would check for rod and valve gear bind would be to take the motor and gears out of the engine, and replace everything else, and just push the light mechanism, with cylinders and all motion work, on a piece of track.  Free movement, with no hangups, was the goal, as they looked for tight spots and binds, relying on feel as much as sight, and fixing by trial and error.  Supposedly the really fastidious took this a step further, rolling the mechanism on a piece of glass (slipperier than track).  I haven't seen a Bachmann decapod mechanism apart before (none of the roads I model used them), but it may be intimidating with its enclosed gearboxes and belt drives.  As you already know, the secret is to take note of what you do and be patient.  I've had my 2-8-0 and 2-6-6-2 apart, they are a little frightening the first time (and always very fiddly), but someone had to put them together in the first place, so you can take them apart and put them back together again.  Just watch what you do (don't drop anything on the floor, you may never find it!), have good light available and a comfortable working space (a high-level desk, like a watchmaker's bench, is ideal), an engine cradle is handy (Bowser and others sell them in foam; a plastic liner, such as from a lunch or freezer bag keeps oil and snags out of the foam) and take your time.

Finally, there may be split gear problems, based on the comments others have had about other locomotives, most notably Life-Like diesels and Bachmann's Climax.  Nothing to do there but change out the gear, more likely the whole driver set unless you can quarter drivers.  Perhaps other readers who own these engines can comment on this.

You are pretty good, certainly far better than me at your age (and in some ways better than me now). . .you very likely know all this and more. . .after all, you're recreating the 34 and possibly others. . .and that's something I wouldn't have even thought of trying!

Good luck!

I am still stumped, to the point where I might have my father give a look into it....


It runs fine going forward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frqqkfiq-XQ

But backwards, it'll freeze:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeWrGLxVufM


so until I can work out the bug I'm dead in the water.



I grew up taking things apart and putting them back together like recently I bought a lot of locomotives in an ebay lot and amongst them was a GS-4 Daylight with no motor in it and since I plan to resell this stuff I found out that I had a nice running replacement motor that goes right with it :) I like to look at the GS-4's in 4 stages
First Stage:
Crappy Pancake Motor
Second Stage:
White encased motor(which with fine tuning and TLC will run nicely to my surprise)
Third Stage: Bachmann Plus
Can motor
Final:
The DCC engine they have now

I bought my spectrum 2-6-6-2 w/sound for $150 at my local hobby shop, the catch? Mechanical problems. Upon taking a good look at the structure of components, I just dicovered that there was just a screw missing and a cylinder misaligned, and after a quick fix ran the whole 20 hours(combined) on my christmas layout at the local park downtown, and still runs to this day :) (of course with some maintenance) and it will be running tonight as the main thru-freight at our club layout in Canton CT at the museum.




Well to put it lightly I spent my early teens years as more of a loner, just surviving high school alone and coming home to my imagination everyday. I wasn't what you called a real popular kid in school in my early high school years but that changed after time went on.

The key factor is a disease/gift I have called asperger's syndrome, which in this case it varies among a lot of people, and the key thing we have is 'comfort zones', mine just happens to be building whatever I want from the blueprint in my mind. I'll sometimes draw things out, but most of the work is done mentally in my head which amazes my dad and confused my math teachers at the same time.

I've been put in charge of maintenance of the steam locomotives at our club due to the fact that I can fix them up and refurbish them back to life again. I've repaired some of the guys' home brought locomotives like a 2-8-0 with sound had the coupler plug disconnected, so then I went and hard wired it directly.

Rye,

I was watching your videos, and this doesn't act like anything I can recall seeing.  I do agree with you, it's not something like a short piston rod that pops out of the cylinder block and then misses the hole as it heads back in--that would give a much more sudden stop than what we are seeing here, and it would likely be in both directions.  Instead, this bind develops relatively gradually, as if a screw somewhere is rotating as a part turns underneath its head, pulling the screw tighter.  If that is the case, then the mechanism will also be at least initially tight as you put it into forward again, possibly to the point that it would not start at all after this.  You don't mention that happening, though, so I assume it is still something else, or at least might be happening in a place that's not obvious.

I did have a Bowser K-11 do something like this, and it was due to a main crank pin that was a bit stubborn about wanting to work loose.  This engine used an eccentric crank that was like the prototype in that it was tightened onto the main crank pin with a "pinch" fit, like a clamp (with a very tiny tightening screw across the bottom of the eccentric itself), and was held in place by friction.  It was a devil of a time getting the main crank pins in tight, as they were entirely circular--no screw slots or hex heads, I was using a set of pliers and trying not to mar the bearing surface (later I was told a better tool would have been a pin vise).  The normal rotating friction from the rods and the resistance from the valve gear would eventually cause the crank pin on one side to gradually unscrew itself, with interesting results as valve gear got out of time, and it got even more interesting on the times when the whole pin came out and the main rod and valve gear started digging into the ballast.  Talk about a jackrabbit jump!

What you are talking about doing (having your dad look at it) may be the best thing, if for no other reason in that sometimes a brain needs a rest to stop and come to an answer.  Sleeping on a problem sometimes really does work!  If he can't get to it or find what's wrong, I would start by taking the motor and gearbox out and pushing the mechanism by hand, as suggested by the old-timers mentioned earlier.  If nothing else, you will at least find out if your rods and valve gear run freely.  If that turns out to be the case, then the problem may be in the motor and/or gearbox and belt drive.

Out of curiosity, did you get to test the original decapod in reverse before you started the work?

Take care, let us know what transpires.

Try disassembling and reassembling the worm gear housing. I know many Mantua locomotives had problems with the worm gear in which they ran fine forwards but developed problems running backwards. I don't remember the specifics of the Mantua problem but it's possible your loco may have developed a similar problem.

hmmmm that might be entirely possible, I guess I'll give a good look to see if that might be it, because I run the chassis motorless anyways and it'll work fine, so it just might be the belt drive....

And it's definitely not a piston rod doing it, because the bottom ones are definitely in there and the top ones move but they aren't going anywhere.

I'll give it to my dad first and see what he thinks and then I'll look at the motor assembly, I mean it did run perfectly fine before modification so It's gotta be something

Dear Rye;

Haven't heard anything in a little while; anything to report?

it ran fine before the modification, then it must be the modification that's causing it.       On locos like bowser, mantua, etc, care must be given when screwing in the side rods to make sure there is no binding. Then attach one side valve gear and test that. then the other side, That should make it easier to eliminate problems. Sometimes bowser gears are not perfectly round and they cause a bind every revolution, giving a slight adjustment might be all it needs like a shim under the front of the motor.

Have you tried running it without the rods between the fourth and fifth driver. 

hmmm I will take those thoughts into consideration, my apologies as my youthful tendencies have delayed my efforts some ::)

Rye Guy,

I have been following your project with great interest.  Very impressive to date.

I watched the video on your mechanism issue.  My problems on my Bowser were going forward, instead of reverse.  I don't know if this will help,but I found my crosshead guides were just a touch too long.  The drive rods were binding by rubbing and bumping the crosshead guides. Also I had some tiny screws connecting the valve gear parts that were loosening and binding up in the drive rods.  I was able to shortens the screws and use some locktite to hold them in place. However, I suspect every valve gear has its own set of issues to be worked out.

I monkeyed with mine for two weeks before it was as perfect as I was ever going to get it.  I would say take your time, and the answers will come.  This is the most important part of the project. 

Great build so far!  Can't wait to see the next set of pics.

Regards,

Jonathan

After looking at the mechanism and such, I feel it's the motor and belt drive causing the problem. I have even contemplated sending the mechnism to NWSL to see if maybe they can make a bulletproof mechanism for me or make me a gearbox much like what you see on newer brass locomotives

I also have to add that I am younger and enjoy this hobby as much as the next guy. I'm 25 and last time I was in my LHS, my buddy Kelly has told me that sometimes I keep him sane....He's in his early 40's and says sometimes he just needs a break in that he deals with customers with the median age of 70. He respects me in that I can build an MDC shay and get it to run with stock parts better than anyone he has seen before. To add, I got started in this hobby as a child....I was about 5 when I got my first HO train set....Marklin made, let me tell you, recognizing the shear quality in those sets was very easy for a child my age. Hats off to you and beautiful build thus far Rye.

The music is another thing, I am also a professional guitarist....I can't tell you how many times I've worked on my layout with Sevendust, Tool or Mudvayne jamming on my stereo.

Quote from: DaveMFnC on April 07, 2010, 01:11:55 AM
I also have to add that I am younger and enjoy this hobby as much as the next guy. I'm 25 and last time I was in my LHS, my buddy Kelly has told me that sometimes I keep him sane....He's in his early 40's and says sometimes he just needs a break in that he deals with customers with the median age of 70. He respects me in that I can build an MDC shay and get it to run with stock parts better than anyone he has seen before. To add, I got started in this hobby as a child....I was about 5 when I got my first HO train set....Marklin made, let me tell you, recognizing the shear quality in those sets was very easy for a child my age. Hats off to you and beautiful build thus far Rye.

May the gods of the roundhouse bless you. Thanks to guys like you, the hobby will endure for at least another generation.  ;)

(Tell you what, I'd bet money that your being a musician has something to do with your skill as a kit-builder.)

It's getting spooky.

I worked as a part-time musician (guitar) for 15 years... then the golf bug got me.  Thankfully, I got over that.

Must be a hand-eye coordination thing.  That and trains make a wonderful song all their own. 8)

Regards,

Jonathan

p.s.  The g-string makes great handrails.

Quote from: jonathan on April 07, 2010, 11:46:07 AM
It's getting spooky.

I worked as a part-time musician (guitar) for 15 years... then the golf bug got me.  Thankfully, I got over that.

Must be a hand-eye coordination thing.  That and trains make a wonderful song all their own. 8)

Regards,

Jonathan

p.s.  The g-string makes great handrails.

That, and perhaps a real knack--or gift--or sense--for putting things together so they all work harmoniously.

I'm not kidding. An acquaintance who is a composer once told me that musicians make great IT people, so for some reason it didn't surprise me that a musician would be really good at assembling a locomotive kit. Maybe all those activities draw on the same area of the brain, or something.   ???

Ha! You're right, the G-string would make excellent handrails! Never thought of that. I would agree that there is definitely a positive relationship between the skills as a musician and model building in a subliminal sort of way. I forgot to mention that I also model steam exclusively as well. In my 10 locomotives, I have one diesel, a GP9, for the early transition period. I think I stopped modeling around 14, the whole high school and college business and what have you. I got back into railroading about 2 years ago. I was in a supermarket with my girlfriend at the time and picked up a "Model Railroader" and that was all she wrote. It was a Godsend as well because I was weening off of an addictive medication at the time and also trying to quit smoking and that helped to take my mind off things as well.