What is the difference between a Switch, as included in the "Your First Railroad Track Pack" and a DCC Turnout?
Can they both be operated by a DCC Controller, is there anything else, like a motor or solenoid, that is needed to control these turnouts?
Oh yes, I am very new to this.
The turnouts included in the track packs are non-powered/manual and would need a mechanism added and a decoder to be able to be thrown from a DCC controller like DCC turnouts.
The name "turnout" is used by model railroaders to avoid confusion between a track switch (turnout) and an electrical switch (switch).
OldTimer
The term "turnout" is also used by the track manufacturers in the full size world and the railroads who are their customers. The term "switch" applies only to the moving parts ("points") within a turnout, together with the gear for moving those parts. Ask a railroader working on a track crew about those giant size Atlas snap switches you see filling full size gondolas and he will call them "turnouts." Ask a trainman how he gets the train from one track to another and he will tell you "by throwing some switches." And both of them are correct. But they are NOT talking about exactly the same thing.
Think of it this way. You own an automobile. The motor is only part of it. A century ago, you would probably have referred to your car, the whole car, as your "motor." Eventually, people started to use the term "motor car" for the whole thing as a way to avoid confusion. Similarly, you will sometimes hear the term "turnout switch" used for the whole track appliance.
As part of a savvy model railroad club, you might talk about putting in a passing siding by adding one turnout here and another turnout over there. But after the siding is in place and you are now using it, you will probably ask for someone to throw those switches.
Having said all that to explain the difference between switch and turnout, a DCC turnout is simply a turnout in which the switch can be operated via your DCC throttle. I suppose they call a turnout a "switch" in Your First Railroad Track Pack because the term "switch" is more familiar to beginners. But by the time people are more advanced and thinking in terms of operating their switches by DCC, they call it a "turnout."
Where's the ice pack. I think I'm giving myself a headache!
Jim
Jim, I like the way you explain things, you cured some of my headaches, thank you.
simkon, so what exactly is it that I need to turn manually operated Turnouts into DCC operated turnouts. If you do not mind, please list some Brand and Model names so that I can go and search for some examples and see for myself.
It is best to use the DCC turnouts provided by Bachmann if at all possible, because adding a switch machine to the manual turnouts is not an easy task and it is time consuming and then any decoder would suffice. Unless you do not have the ability to purchase DCC turnouts, you can just sell the manual ones that you have on ebay or to a friend and replace them with the DCC turnouts should you choose to get a DCC system and want DCC turnouts.
Thank you simkon, yous on this forum are the only model railroad friends I currently have, eBay my best choice for buying and selling.
another question on turnouts... I have just installed EZ Track DCC turnouts with my Digitrax system and the turnouts are working backwards - in other words when the throttle shows thrown they are closed etc - I have programmed them separately but to no avail.. any ideas?
Thanks!
anthony_poole71, I can not answer your question but I would like to know more about your experience, in general, with your Digitrax Controller as I am considering buying one.
The current production of Bachmann turnouts all have this error. As far as I know it cannot be corrected, but aside from it being opposite there are no other issues.
I did all of that, tried manually changing the switch to thrown etc and matching it up on the DCS50, but to no avail...
Quote from: Jim Banner on November 27, 2010, 10:15:56 PM
Think of it this way. You own an automobile. The motor is only part of it. A century ago, you would probably have referred to your car, the whole car, as your "motor."
Jim
Jim's advice was right on but I just couldn't resist replying to the comment above (smiles). "Motors" are powered by electricity, "engines" are run on fuel/gasoline. So unless your car is an electric or hybrid, it has an engine in it. The only motor similarity is the alternator or generator.
However his "motor car" usage was a common expression way back when.
Wanna' bet this will start a discussion (smile again).
Wanna' bet. We also have (motor)cars in ZA, pick-ups are called bakkies (buckets), mini-busses are called taxis, they are powered by petrol engines or diesel engines. Not too many electric cars or hybrids around yet.
bloodhound-
I think you are correct in common usage but there really isn't a difference between the definitions of "engine" and "motor." Both are machines used to convert energy into motion. Some folks use the issue of whether the machine is self-contained versus connected to a power source, but that, too, is a matter of custom, not proper definition. Using your distinction, what is a diesel-electric locomotive, engine or motor?
-- D
In the UK esp. London, cars are referred to as motors. i.e. Hello John, got a new motor?
Turnouts are referred to as points. i.e The train now arriving at platform 2 was delayed because of frozen points at Clapham Junction.
Quote from: Jim Banner on November 27, 2010, 10:15:56 PM
The term "turnout" is also used by the track manufacturers in the full size world and the railroads who are their customers. The term "switch" applies only to the moving parts ("points") within a turnout, together with the gear for moving those parts. Ask a railroader working on a track crew about those giant size Atlas snap switches you see filling full size gondolas and he will call them "turnouts." Ask a trainman how he gets the train from one track to another and he will tell you "by throwing some switches." And both of them are correct. But they are NOT talking about exactly the same thing.
Think of it this way. You own an automobile. The motor is only part of it. A century ago, you would probably have referred to your car, the whole car, as your "motor." Eventually, people started to use the term "motor car" for the whole thing as a way to avoid confusion. Similarly, you will sometimes hear the term "turnout switch" used for the whole track appliance.
As part of a savvy model railroad club, you might talk about putting in a passing siding by adding one turnout here and another turnout over there. But after the siding is in place and you are now using it, you will probably ask for someone to throw those switches.
Having said all that to explain the difference between switch and turnout, a DCC turnout is simply a turnout in which the switch can be operated via your DCC throttle. I suppose they call a turnout a "switch" in Your First Railroad Track Pack because the term "switch" is more familiar to beginners. But by the time people are more advanced and thinking in terms of operating their switches by DCC, they call it a "turnout."
Where's the ice pack. I think I'm giving myself a headache!
Jim
I got some Advil if you need some Jim! ;D
Genrally i just call them switches. I mean afterall, i have NEVER seen or heard of a loco called a "turnouter" , never seen a "turnout tower" and so on.
The British reference to "points" fits right in. The points of a turnout are the moveable rails. The British speak of just the moveable rails. We speak of the moveable rails plus the bits and pieces to make them move as a "switch." In both cases, we are talking about parts of a turnout. Now if you will excuse me, I have to get back to the point work I have been having a spot of trouble with. Seems I have a sticky switch in the turnout I'm building.
I figured I might as well add some more to the confusion. After all, I helped open this can of worms. And closing a can of worm is about as easy as unringing a bell.
Jim
P.S. Thanks, Mr. Smith. I think I will have one of those Advil now.
J.
just to add some gasoline to the fire.......
having worked in the railroad industry for severla years, i can tell you the operating departments of the roads i ran over (we had trackage rights) never referred to turnouts. we received permission to open the switch. we double checqued the points as a safety measure. when we were done we reported the switch lined and locked in the normal position. if you ran through a switch, you were in trouble especially if you "put one on the ground" (derailed.)....
power switches had a setting which converted them to manual operation. this had to be done by the signal maintainers, and if i recall effectively disabled the signal system for the affected tracks. you'd have to get permission by the stop signal from the dispatcher, who would tell you if the switch was in manual or motor mode....
just to confuse things a little more, some railroads refer to locomotives as motors. and the little level that operated the points in a yard was a hand throw not a ground throw. it was also called a switch stand. and the "switch" towers were referred to as either signal towers or block stations depending upon the railroad....
bear in mind that different railroads call things different names. the ones i dealt with were the norfolk southern/conrail (former prr) the buffalo & pisstburgh (former b&o} and the pittsburgh & shawmut.
Quote from: jward on December 02, 2010, 07:56:41 AM
just to confuse things a little more, some railroads refer to locomotives as motors.
I'm still smiling. ;D Of course with today's locomotives, either term would be correct as they use diesel "engines" to power electric "motors".
But I did get a good education on terminology; a sincere thanks guys.
8)
Quote from: jward on December 02, 2010, 07:56:41 AM
having worked in the railroad industry for severla years, i can tell you the operating departments of the roads i ran over (we had trackage rights) never referred to turnouts.
Thanks Jeffery for the confirmation. Now if we can just get someone who works/worked for the track construction and maintenance department to confirm what they called turnouts, we can either confirm or dispute what I was saying earlier. In the meantime, take a look at the link below. It leads to the section of Harmer Steel Co.'s catalogue that deals with the real world subject. The index on the left side of the page expands on many aspects of the subject.
http://www.harmersteel.com/catalog/frogs-switches-turnouts/ (http://www.harmersteel.com/catalog/frogs-switches-turnouts/)
Jim