Hi - I received a Hawthorne Village "Original Six" NHL train set some time ago and have just set it up on a track mounted near the ceiling in my den. I love how it works. My question is about the "Original Six" caboose (at least I think it is). It is much heavier than all of the other cars, except the engine, which is just as heavy. Is that powered as well and I should be using it as the last car? I'm afraid it will be too heavy and slow everything down. After writing this I guess I will just try it, but wanted to get some opinions from the experts.
Thanks so much
Mike
Mike, perhaps you received the bonus of a commemorative Original Six Hockey puck and it is hidden in your caboose! Just kidding :D
I do not hold myself out to be an expert, but what happens if you put just the caboose on the track and try to power it up and run it, like it was the engine(locomotive)?
I did open up the caboose, broke it in half but there was no puck. Hmmmm.
Just kidding. I did try putting it on the track with nothing else, but it didn't budge. Was just curious on why it was so much heavier than all of the others. Oh well. If anyone has any other ideas/thoughts I will welcome them.
Thanks
Hmm. I was hoping to see if the caboose would run as a loco would. Bc it does not, either means that it does not have a motor, or the motor in there is not getting "juice". Can you tell, now that you have opened it, if it has a motor?
PS-I am an ISLANDER fan myself :D
in looking up this train set I could find no caboose. it is a passenger train, pulled by an two unit diesel locomotive. what you called the caboose is, I suspect, a b unit. this is a cables diesel, which in real life was remotely controlled from the leader. if this is in fact a b unit, it should have several round windows on the side.
assuming this is a b unit, this would explain its weight, as well as the fact the wheels don't freewheel. there should be a couple of small screws, either under the fuel tank (which pops off) or in the chassis on either side of the tank, which holds the body on.
I am glad it has now been established it is B unit you are talking about Mike and not a caboose and we now know what to refer to it exactly.
That said, the B unit should run just as the A unit loco would as per my above suggestion. As it does not run, you should do as Jeff suggests and take the screws out so you can get the shell off to see what you can see. Perhaps a disconnected wire is the cause for the B unit not running as power would not be able to travel thru the motor from the wheels.
Can you take and post pictures if need be?
If it is a B unit I would think it is a dummy unit. The weight is not a problem as it is better to have it than not.
If this unit was powered, you would probably see the wheels not turning and it being dragged around which is not good for the A unit.
This is my AB unit. If yours are similar then Jeff is correct (as usual).
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l499/jeborne/DSCN0209.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/jeborne/media/DSCN0209.jpg.html)
If the B units wheel spin and are not dragging you are OK the added weight is from the frame which is identical to the A unit less motor.
Jerry
Good to hear from you Jerry!
You lost me though on the thought that the B unit is necessarily a dummy as many B units are powered and to my knowledge, many Bachmann B units are powered or meant to be anyway. Mike did say the weight of his caboose/B unit is the same as his running loco, one would think a dummy unit would be lighter for absence of the motor.
The wheels on the B unit may not be turning, bc the motor in there (if indeed in there) is not getting power.
I am not sure what you said here means: "If this unit was powered, you would probably see the wheels not turning and it being dragged around..."
Yes indeed, Jeff is often correct, but not all the time. No one is of course.
BTW Jerry, I sent you a PM at the end of July, did you see it?
-jb
jb
Glad to see you are still LOST on my answers... ;D ;D
There are many B units that are dummy's, I have one. I can not be certain if Bachmann's Hawthorne Village sets a B unit dummy or not as I do not own any collective sets like that.
Now it''s not to say the set was used and someone turned the powered B unit into a dummy.
Mike stated the caboose was heavier than the other rolling stock which without putting it on a scale do not know how much heavier he is referring to.
I don't think the motor missing would make it that much lighter as I have a powered AB and a dummy AB and find by holding them in my hand you can not determine if the motor is there are not.
QuoteI am not sure what you said here means: "If this unit was powered, you would probably see the wheels not turning and it being dragged around..."
I was stating if it was powered and the motor was there you would see the wheels locked up and being dragged around. Although I would think it would not go far or fast being dragged.
Hope this help's you understand what I was getting at.
Jerry
I got your PM. I thought I replied back. Maybe not, it's been a hectic summer for me keeping up with the children. She did enjoy herself up there though. To bad you couldn't meet her one day while you were at work.
Jerry
You did not reply, but no problem, I understand busy. But I sent a later PM than the one you are referring to. Did you not get that one?
I am sorry I don't always follow what you are saying. What you said here confused me bc, if the unit was powered, put on the track like I had suggested with the controller on and the wheels were not turning, it would mean a problem with the motor. If set up as a dummy, then there should be no reason for the wheels not to turn when pushed on the track or hooked up to the running loco.
Yes, Mike did state his caboose/B unit was heavier than the rolling stock, but he also stated is just as heavy as the engine. To me that means weighing the same. I am able to detect the weight difference when a motor is absent. Perhaps I have a finer touch and sensitivity.
I hope Mike gets back to us about what he finds when he takes the shell off. I did not realize when he said he broke it in half and said he was kidding, that it was more than just kidding about finding a hockey puck.
I would have liked that, but it would have meant missing work, bc like I had told you, I used to work down there and would have to take a long drive.
And Jerry since you posted these pics, I have to ask you, have you gotten these units all squared away with decoders and getting them set up the way you wanted?
Whew - step away for a couple hours and look what happens. Thanks to all who have responded - some great conversation. Thought it was time to post some pictures. I did end up opening it up, and there was nothing. I've got it as the last unit and it actually pulls around quite nice. I may try putting it second and see how that looks too.
*** seems to be some issue with uploading an image. It is only 3kb, but saying the folder is full. Oh well. The inside of the B unit is steel, but with nothing in the middle, sort of hollowed out.***
Thanks again for everyone's responses and time. Much appreciated.
PS for jbrock27 - Go Wings!! :) Should be interesting in the Eastern Conf this year.
So I wanted to show the images anyways, so I uploaded them to photobucket. The first link shows the unit taken apart. Not sure if it is a dummy, or just waiting for something to be put in it.
http://s806.photobucket.com/user/ctunited/media/B_Unit_2_zpsaac51787.jpg.html
http://s806.photobucket.com/user/ctunited/media/B_Unit_1_zpsd83589d5.jpg.html
Thanks again
Mike
Just as Jerry suspected! Good work getting the shell off Mike and with the pics. I am glad you got back to us. It is always helpful when the OP shows us what happened after all the advice. This is a nice, heavy Bachmann Plus chassis. How does it roll? Pretty freely?
Yes indeed, the East is going to feel strange with the WINGS there. Good for them, they won't have to contend with the HAWKS. That was a good rivalry too. Too bad. The BRUINS are the cream of the crop in the East. My ISLES have a loooooong way to go to be anything special. I guess we'll see.
Take it easy!
PS- Mike, as a point of information, technically, the "normal" place for the B unit to be, would be right behind the locomotive. But run it where ever you like to. Maybe you will look for a genuine Original Six caboose to put at the end instead ;)
jb
Come on now, did you really doubt me? YES you did. ( I took a wild guess from the way he was describing it and with the help of and yes, the man who is 99.9% never wrong in my book.... Jeff Ward.
All the thanks must go to Jeff as he took the time to look it up. But if you ever noticed that Hawthorne Village diesels are all F units.
Speaking of the caboose, while I was checking out there site I came across Americas Greatest Cabooses ( or is it cabeese ::)) check out the detailing of the inside.
http://www.bradfordexchange.com/products/917611_caboose-train-car-collection.html
http://www.bradfordexchange.com/products/917611_caboose-train-car-collection.html
Mike..
When using your photobucket account click on the IMG tab and it will show copied, then on your post just paste it and the pic will show.
Jerry
ct-
Don't bother looking for a caboose for your train. It wouldn't have had one except under the most extraordinary circumstances like a desperate need to get a caboose somewhere ASAP and no other way to do it. Frankly, I doubt if it would ever happen.
As Sherlock Holmes and Ellery Queen figured out, your odd car isn't a car at all but a second locomotive unit. It would be placed right behind the A-unit, the one which clearly has a cab for the engineer in front. I wouldn't let it run at the tail end of your train because it is so heavy that it might clothesline your train at some point, i.e., provide so much resistance to being pulled that the lighter cars between the engine and your dummy B-unit may come off of the tracks. The fact that it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't in the future as dust and crud get in the journals and increase resistance. That would likely lead to significant damage to your passenger cars since they'll be falling from near ceiling height.
It's become very difficult to find dummy locos anymore. I think the manufacturers realize that everyone who runs trains with more than one loco will buy powered units (for more money) if that's the only alternative they have. I suspect you have a dummy with your set because Bachmann was able to bid a slightly lower cost for the set to win the contract from the Bradford Exchange or whoever was selling it.
IMHO, those sets (and the plates, dogs, jewelry, cars, National Parks plaques, commemorative coins and stamps, Barbie dolls, music boxes and what all else they sell) are a serious waste of money. They are hugely priced and only a very few of the earliest items (like 40 years ago and longer) have any actual collector value. To me, they are a rip-off, pure and simple. Just look at those cabooses. They are charging $60 plus exhorbatant shipping and handling for a Bachmann caboose which you can find for $20-30 if you pay full price, which few people do. Yes, they have a nice interior but that can be done for just a few dollars.
None of this is to say that you shouldn't enjoy your train. By all means do so. But I strongly advise you to buy future trains from train sources, not companies which are out to separate you from as much of your money as possible as quickly as possible.
People are aware that Bing and Grondahl and Royal Copenhagan make expensive annual plates which people collect. (And even their collector items are losing value now, along with pieces from superior companies like Royal Doulton, Hummel, Waterford, Beleek, Wedgewood, Lladro and others.) But those are quality products with a 100-year-plus history and a large collector base already established. None of that is true for these Johny-come-lately outfits like Bradford and its numerous "associate" companies, or the Franklin Mint, Thomas Kinkeade Galleries, Hawthorne, Danbury, Ashton-Tate and several more. You can still find excellent products by top manufacturers, like Boehm or Steiff or Haviland Limoges, but don't plan to sell them for a profit. At least those items are true art; the Bradford, et. al., stuff is crap (at best) to begin with.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on August 24, 2013, 08:45:42 PM
IMHO, those sets (and the plates, dogs, jewelry, cars, National Parks plaques, commemorative coins and stamps, Barbie dolls, music boxes and what all else they sell) are a serious waste of money. They are hugely priced and only a very few of the earliest items (like 40 years ago and longer) have any actual collector value. To me, they are a rip-off, pure and simple. Just look at those cabooses. They are charging $60 plus exhorbatant shipping and handling for a Bachmann caboose which you can find for $20-30 if you pay full price, which few people do. Yes, they have a nice interior but that can be done for just a few dollars.
-- D
Wow Don......seems like the more I read of your posts, the more things we agree on. You make an excellent point about these "mint" operations. What a joke. I can't even find the caboose collection you guys are talking about. When I hit the link, I get automatically redirected to bradfordexchange.CA not .COM The cabeese collection isn't available on the .CA site but a whole lot of other ridiculous junk is.
Sid
sid aren't missing much. I know for a fact the prr caboose isn't remotely like anything they ever ran, the b&o and new York central cars have inaccurate paint schemes. this casts doubt on the rest of them as well. put another way, at 60 a car, you can have an accurate pennsy cabin car of your choice of several different classes from bowser for less than half that.
it kind of reminds me of to old days when ahm or tyco would slap anybody's herald on a locomotive or caboose without caring if it was remotely accurate. but at brass prices.
there are certain words that automatically make me hold onto my wallet: heirloom, gourmet, premium, etc.
If ctunited likes his train that's all that counts. He likes it period. Way to shoot rivets at the new guy! I encourage every train sale made anywhere. Even to hockey fans! The advice on pricing good, but collectable value is strongly determined by society alone, as far as we know, big money will roll on these someday. Junk? Some, but Ive seen some very nice models (autos) come out of some of these studios too. That catalog kept me as busy as a kid with an old Sears Wish-Book. ;D Saw some Bachmann variations I hadn't seen before in various scales as well as some items that would look fine on a simple layout. And even contemplated a Christmas layout for this year. No joke! If I were to suggest a place to spend my money, it would be the independent hobby store nearest you. If you don't spend that extra $ there, often actually cheaper, they might not be there when you need them. But if you cant get it there? Catalog companies to the rescue!!
Hate a team, not a train.
Hope you're enjoying your train CT.
!!GO WINGS!!
GG1
I could not agree with you more. There are some posters here that make newbies and some of us long time train enthusiast feel it has to be done a certain way or if we are able to get our "SET TRACK" working better than their way we are criticized.
Their are some that bash Bachmann products and get away with it.
Here to have fun no matter what I use or do.
Jerry
Maybe I should be clearer about my intent.
I in no way wish to interfere with anyone's modeling choices; I wouldn't put up with that if it were directed at me, either. But I am seriously annoyed by the few companies who will do anything to make/steal a buck, and I will call that out when I see it. The so-called collectibles galleries are tremendous offenders in this regard so I attempt to inform others about their game and discourage purchases there. It's fine with me if someone chooses to purchase items from those companies as long as I am comfortable that I have helped them make informed decisions. I'm not responsible for their decisions nor is it my job to attempt to force my view on others. But I do consider myself responsible for getting full disclosure out there.
I also wish to be clear that I was not, and did not, bash Bachmann. I probably have more Bachmann merchandise than any other brand so I'm obviously a supporter of the company. I simply commented that Bachmann apparently made a business decision to provide dummy B-units to keep the cost down and increase the likelihood that Bachmann would get the contract to make the models. That was a good business decision as far as I'm concerned because they did get the contract. Frankly, I'd like to see more dummy locomotives sold because I think it would let us modelers spend our limited hobby dollars more efficiently. Buy a powered engine when you need one and buy a dummy when you don't. Not having the choice results in some hobby dollars being wasted.
-- D
Maybe the pot-belly stove is weighing it down...
Rich C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on August 25, 2013, 08:12:45 PM
Maybe the pot-belly stove is weighing it down...
Rich C.
:o :) :D ;D.. ;) Thanks for the grin.
CT hope you've figured out the passion some have for their trains is equal to the passion of some sports fans.
Assuming CT wishes to expand his shelf system, and would like more pulling power, can this chassis be motorized, like the O gauge dummies, or would it need a chassis swap?
CT- It is a dummy if that wasn't clear. If the wheels don't spin free, and trucks have the gears in them already, make sure nothing is caught in or around the gears too.
"Limited Edition" and "Commemorative" (as in all those coins advertised on the tube (TV)) are 2 other descriptors to run away from ;)
Doc, plenty of Athearn dummy locos listed on Estupid. And I will add, that some of the nitwits that list there, will neglect to list unpowered units as such.
Personally, I am not a fan of having the added weight of B unit or A unit for that matter that is unpowered, especially one that is a former powered unit with the motor removed. I don't see the sense of having the weight without the power and do not look for B (or A) units like that. Again, just me. Should I be so sensitive as to state a disclaimer that this is not me dictating what others should do?
One Bachmann Plus B powered unit I own runs great! And helps with the added pulling power. I am really happy with that purchase.
jb-
I think the dummy B-units with the weight of powered locos is foolish,
too. But, at times, a dummy loco is just what's needed.
-- D
i think there is practical reason for dummies that weight almost as much as powered locomotives. this is the same reason that some models of similar, but slightly different length locomotives use the same frame even though it makes one of them inaccurate: simplification of parts inventory. it would cost a lot more to make a special frame just for the dummies.
to answer another question, if you can get the parts to do so, it should be possible to power the dummy. the engineering work has already been done for you. as an example, I will use athearn's old blue box locomotives. the frame was the same, powered or dummy. after the early 1980s, the trucks were also the same, except that dummy trucks lacked gears. thus, if you bought the motor, drive train and gears you could convert to powered. at the time athearn parts were readily available at better hobby shops.
I see no reason why you couldn't do the same with a Bachmann f7 if you wished. the parts should be available on this website. that said, looking at dealers like the favourite spot or mb klein may get you a complete locomotive for less than the cost of parts. then it is a simple body swap to get your powered locomotive.
I have, in the past, bought Bachmann ft.s from favourite spot for as little as $17. this locomotive chassis is one of those slightly inaccurate cases I cited above. the ftwas in real life shorter than the f7, but the models use the same frame.
Thanks Jeff, but I wish you had given me that info a year ago when I had asked/posted if it was possible to fit a Bachmann FT shell on a Bachmann F7 chassis. You're info then was a little diffrent, but I ended up being able to accomplish the switch anyway :D
jbrock27
Re: Current Bachmann "Blue Box" FTA offering and motor replacement.
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 12:43:15 PM »
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Thank you both for taking the time to send your replies. The locomotive I bought for my son, is Bachmann's current Blue Box locomotive, FTA model. It has a can motor w/o the flywheels. The heart of my question is, can the shell from this model be placed on either a Bachmann Spectrum or a Bachmann Plus F7 or FTA chasis?
Thanks very much for the help.
jward
Re: Current Bachmann "Blue Box" FTA offering and motor replacement.
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 10:04:05 PM »
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probably not. the ft is slightly shorter than the f7.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
jb,
I have since leaned the chassis are in fact one and the same. so I stand corrected.
No worries Jeff, the opportunity presented itself and I was just having a little fun :D
It made sense to me that Bachmann like any other manufacturer would not go through the expense of making a different chassis for each the FT and F7 since they look so similar to the eye. So I went for it and it paid off. Learned something in the process. All good!!
You, certainly among several others here have been very helpful to me on more than one occasion.