For me, it's about 50/50 I like to run the trains around the layout, but I also like to set up switching problems. I use sets of letters, 2 each, 1 for the car and 1 for the location it's going. The more letters I use, the more complex the switching can be, and time consuming.
Well that is a good question.On my new layout I am making as I have posted earlier it will be a working railroad.I want the kids to learn what a real rail road does.Transport goods and deliver them to industry.I want them to have to learn how to pick up a car and take it to a certain industry'drop it off using magnet couplers.That is the main reason I want to use point to point than where they just watch the train just go around in circle's.
PD,
As I have only been at this for several years, I have been 'playing' up to this point. That is to say, I have 4 loops in my layout, with trains running independently. I would set them all in motion, and be satisfied with walking around the layout, watching the trains run--running an 1895 passenger train (B&O blue of course) right along with CSX SDs and Dash 9's.
I feel I have crossed some milestone, as I am now modifying my layout so three of the loops will be interconnected, with a junction, sidings and terminal points... in essence a system for transporting goods. I still enjoy watching the trains run, but now I want the feeling that the trains have a mission (somewhere to go).
I think it took this long just to decide what kind of trains I like. I went from running a little bit of everything to transition era coal. I have a feeling this is a common progression. I didn't even realize how much a fan I am of the B&O!
My fourth loop will still run an eclectic collection of stuff, independently of the era specific trains. Besides I think it will look pretty neat to have train meets with big steam on one side and big diesels, or olde-tyme trains on the other.
Gotta get in your play time to keep the brain sharp.
Regards,
Jonathan
p.s. Anyway, it's all 'playing' isn't it? Now I'm just playing with a little more focus.
I've been pretty much in the "operations" camp for most of my modeling life. Having said that, this is a hobby of course, and whatever you do to enjoy it is just fine. Many folks design their layouts soley for running trains. Others are content with a shelf layout that is a derivitive of the old John Allen "Timesaver" switching problem. My current layout interchanges standard guage with narrow gauge, including mounting standard gauge cars on n.g. trucks per EBT. The narrow gauge is the primary focus, and runs from the interchange yard to the terminal yard with switching sites along the way and a major coal branch out of the terminal yard. But, there is a hidden connection that allows the narrow gauge to run in a continuous loop for those times when just watching the train is a good thing.
Until you operate a prototype locomotive, we are all boys playing with trains. Just ask your significant other. We look "cute" playing with our trains. That is the reality we all live in.
Rich
I'm gonna set up an Excel sheet to do some fancy graphs, write up about five hundred pages of gobbledygook, and get my Piled Higher and Deeper degree based on whether or not buying new equipment coincides with an alteration to the operations vs. play ratio for the average model RR enthusiast. I'm looking forward to tenure at some major university when my degree is complete and thank all of you in advance for paying taxes to keep PhD folks well heeled.
Regards
The now defunct GER was designed from the offset for "operations".
It was point to point with 5 staging yards.
There was a double ended yard that connected Atwater's Berger Yard and Granville Junction and was the NYC from the Granville Junction end and the D&H and CV from the Berger Yard end.
A single track staging yard left Granville Junction from the east end and went to the B&M.
A single track staging yard was accessed from Exeter on the line between Granville Junction and Atwater that went down to the unmodelled paper mill at St. Pierre.
Main staging was the stub ended Adirondack Yard, to the east of Granville Junction, that represented the GER's main yard just south of Montreal and provided connection with the CPR, CNR and all points east and west.
PD-
It's about 50/50 for me, too. Plus, I enjoy building models, whether from hard or simple kits, kitbashing, or make it up as you go.
Jonathon-
If you connect your four loops judiciously, ideally with some extra trackage for an adjacent yard or at least an interchange track, you could have your loops (trains) hand cars off to the next loop, just like on 1:1 railroads. It could make for some interesting operations.
--D
50/50 works for me too:
I suppose I Play with my trains when I let them run around the main line. BUT I spend time building models Photographing back drops weathering cars etc. So I guess the track is a play thing but the layout is not.
Dear All,
Build your loop with sidings.
When point-to-point operations are desired, place an obstacle on the track to prevent loop running/train watching.
(2 bonus stub sidings, one on each side of the obstacle!)
Similar idea, raise or remove a bridge, perhaps the same one that allows access to the inside of your loop.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
I shoot for a bit of both for good balance.
It is a pastime//hobby, not a job/career!
All work and no play is just plain dull.
The new railroad, currently in the "preconstruction" phase (I'm still finishing the room), is designed for operation, and my expectation is that it could keep four people busy. That said, there is a continuous-run connection for those times that I need to break in a new locomotive or just want to kick back and "railfan" my layout.
I'm not sure why this is sometimes a contentious subject. When we say we operate our layouts, what we are really saying is that we run our trains based on some set of rules. Those rules can be very simple like the situation cards I use when I'm playing by myself, to extremely complicated, like the rule book that might govern a club that has 20 or 30 members show up for an operating session.
My personal feeling is that if you haven't tried operating at some level, you ought to. If you already do run your trains by some set of rules, take a day off and just enjoy the sights and sounds of your trains running just for the sake of running.
i tried running "Operation" style and with a small layout like mine, its hard to do. When i try this, it usually is a pick-up drop off thing. Its OK for a while but the yard is more of a staging lane. and the siding next to it can barely fit my GE70ton and a bobber caboose. So its usually play for me. Switch a train out from a earlier, get things set up and watch the new made train go by and let the passenger take a turn or something else.
Our group likes to get together and play trains. Sometimes it is just running various trains to see them run. Other times we each run a train, moving cars and their hypothetical loads from place to place according to some previously conceived plan. If someone wants to call it an operating session, we don't complain. If someone else calls it playing trains, we accept that too. The one thing we all call it is FUN.
Jim
definitely! I find that my brother and I both like to just run the trains. Having a K2 or J pulling a passenger train or an A or Y hauling a freight is fun to watch. It's even more fun when you can pass the slower freight. We both have various switching problems designed into our layouts that , at times, can give use fits. He has a time saver I built 20+ years ago with hand laid code 70 rail and switches. It's fun to operate that with RS3 or S2.
For my little engineer its definitely playing trains...he will take the engine off and push/pull just the cars around whether it be passenger or freight
A great book on the subject is "Playing with Trains," by Sam Posey, who includes some comments on the debates between the precise "operators" and the other more leisurely souls who might be described as "artists."
My own approach, which is in the doodle stage, and much delayed by "honey-do" projects ("Honey, would you do. . .?"), is, like many others here, intended as a 50-50 proposition. It's intended for realistic if relaxed operation, following the prototypes of the area between Charleston, W.Va. and Gauley Bridge, W.Va., including the interchanges between the C&O and the Virginian at Deepwater, the C&O and the NYC at Gauley Bridge, and the Virginian with the NYC and the trackage rights from West Deepwater (Alloy on a highway map) to Charleston; the latter city also had a couple of shortlines in the area, and the B&O's Elk River line came in there, too. Need lots of hopper cars on this one for all three major roads, as you can guess, and the Virginian needed helper service out of Deepwater on its extreme western end that, as the Deepwater Railway, had originally been engineered as a local coal and logging line--it later hosted drags with triple 2-8-8-2s, limited to 30 cars per engine! The road itself would be fairly large physically primarily to accomodate coal drags, but with relatively simple track arrangement; there aren't that many switching locations in this stretch, although there could be switching to anyone's delight at either the chemical plants in South Charleston or the silicon refining furnace at Alloy (which has its own plant railroad).
At the the same time, I would also like to see if I can't come up with some sort of automatic operation on days when I just want to feel like I'm in a cabin on an island in the Kanawha River, watching trains on both sides (C&O on a double-track main on the south bank, NYC and VGN on the single track line on the north bank), back in 1948. It would be a variation of the retirement plan or dream an editor of Railway Age once shared with David P. Morgan (longtime editor of Trains), who would have liked a cabin on the banks of the New River near Narrows, Va., where he could watch trains in steam on the Norfolk & Western and the electric and steam trains of the Virginian, and when he wasn't watching trains he would be reading railroad books, and sharing books out of his library with other rail fans, who in turn would share their libraries as well. . .nice dream, I'd say. . .
I always "operate" my model railroad, and take offense when someone says 'He's going to play with his trains' ;D Mine is totally freelanced, but is based on a modern tourist railroad (this is the best way to operate equipment from various lines and still have it "make sense"). I live in West Virginia, and thusly it has a little Cass, West Virginia Central (aka Tygart Flyer/Durbin Rocket), Potomac Eagle, Western Maryland Scenic, and West Virginia Northern, but is set on a ficticious former branch of the Western Maryland Railway. Scenery is realistic for the most part, although I have set up a small amusement park, which as most who are familiar with WV know, we only have one, and this isn't it, lol.
And just how many people model West Virginia? It must be one of the most often depicted areas for model railroads...it seems like almost every issue of Model Railroader features at least one story about someone who models WV. It really is a beautiful place, and easy to depict in a past era.
With my new track adjustments made I have been able to run 2 engines safely at a time. I can set the switches to allow 1 train to travel the outside main line while I can do switching and make up trains on the inner loop. The way to mix things up is to allow the outer train access to the inner track to force the switcher 'in the hole'
Quote from: mattyg1306 on April 29, 2010, 09:40:04 PM
And just how many people model West Virginia? It must be one of the most often depicted areas for model railroads...it seems like almost every issue of Model Railroader features at least one story about someone who models WV. It really is a beautiful place, and easy to depict in a past era.
If it isn't West Virginia, it's Colorado narrow gauge. :) Trains, especially steam trains, and mountains just seem to belong together, I guess. :)
It's Roundy Roundy for me with just enough buildings to keep it from looking like a pool table
Quote from: Johnson Bar Jeff on April 30, 2010, 11:44:19 AM
Quote from: mattyg1306 on April 29, 2010, 09:40:04 PM
And just how many people model West Virginia? It must be one of the most often depicted areas for model railroads...it seems like almost every issue of Model Railroader features at least one story about someone who models WV. It really is a beautiful place, and easy to depict in a past era.
If it isn't West Virginia, it's Colorado narrow gauge. :) Trains, especially steam trains, and mountains just seem to belong together, I guess. :)
Yes, that's true! And don't get me wrong...I LIKE having WV covered in every issue of
Model Railroader! ;D Its just funny...if all the railroads...including my own...were real...WV would be quite a busy place! And, you're right, without mountains our layouts would look so plain and "FAKE"...mountains are what make it interesting and realistic. I just wish I could find some decent pre-fab backdrops to use on my layout...the Instant Horizons from Walthers just don't represent WV mountains well enough at all :'(
There's a difference? Wow...I didn't know that.
Let see: we are running little plastic/brass/diecast approximations of real trains past plastic people that never seem to move. OK. Our towns are filled with buildings constructed of plastic, hydrocal or thin wood...usually having little to no interiors. OK. Rolling stock goes from place to place - hauling nothing. OK. Huge beings look down on our landscape...making sure everything is going according to plan (and occasionally giving a recalcitrant car a little shove). OK. Our scenery is constructed of foam or plaster and is populated with vegetation composed of bits of dyed foam whilst our trees are 'grown' with plastic trunks and foam 'leaves'.
Yeah...that sounds like 'operation'. Personally I play with my toys.
Just my opinion,
Ray
you mean, none of this is real? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Quote from: pdlethbridge on May 03, 2010, 11:05:47 AM
you mean, none of this is real? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Isn't reality just a collective hallucination?
Quote from: CNE Runner on May 03, 2010, 09:59:31 AM
There's a difference? Wow...I didn't know that.
Let see: we are running little plastic/brass/diecast approximations of real trains past plastic people that never seem to move. OK. Our towns are filled with buildings constructed of plastic, hydrocal or thin wood...usually having little to no interiors. OK. Rolling stock goes from place to place - hauling nothing. OK. Huge beings look down on our landscape...making sure everything is going according to plan (and occasionally giving a recalcitrant car a little shove). OK. Our scenery is constructed of foam or plaster and is populated with vegetation composed of bits of dyed foam whilst our trees are 'grown' with plastic trunks and foam 'leaves'.
Yeah...that sounds like 'operation'. Personally I play with my toys.
Just my opinion,
Ray
Ummm, Ray,
I don't think anyone here will argue that they think its real...at least I hope not. However, there are a lot of people who have large layouts who "operate" their trains on semi-realistic schedules complete with waybills...the whole 9 yards. I don't personally go to this extreme but I still prefer the terminology "operate" to "play"...it sounds more "grown up" (and in reality we are "operating"...a power pack! ;) ). I DO respect those who have model train layouts large enough to justify the town to town to town operation with the freight mixing yards, schedules, and stuff. It would be neat to be able to "fool" myself into thinking my "toys" were the "real thing".
Here's one fellow in California who managed to build something big, and apparently operates properly, too (I notice mostly correct whistle signals--neat!), although I wonder what a mess got made of the caboose when the helper coupled on to it without stopping.
This represents the C&O from Hinton, W.Va. to Allegheny, Va. Portrayed towns include Hinton, Ronceverte, White Sulphur Springs, and Allegheny; all are recongizable if condensed, including key structures such as depots. Power looks like brass, sound-equipped; wish this one was mine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2B6xxDRJAM&feature=related
Mountain climbing on the Southern Pacific (Got to get away from West Virginia just a little bit).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfNCogdGFs&feature=related
Passenger trains,with black engines and green cars--like it should be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmHHtj5Pr2A&feature=related
Train watching on the the C&O; some of the freight cars and at least one caboose are too modern, but the Alleghenies sound right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8KEW8Y2IS4
This isn't in HO, and it's definately in the play category, but it's universal. Location looks to be Japan, but no translation is necessary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ddjs3exvvo
Enjoy, nothing but fun here.
cool videos...thanx for sharing! 8)
Thanks, Matty.
There are a number of similar videos with a variety of scales and trains on YouTube. C&O's Chessie the Cat must have plenty of railfan relatives around the world!