Bachmann Online Forum

I recently read an article on the reintroduction of Northwest Shortline's Flea power unit for locomotives. Here is the reference page from NWSL's website: http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/the-flea (http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/the-flea) . Does anyone have any idea whether or not this would work in the Bachmann Plymouth industrial locomotive?

After spending a considerable amount of time trying to make the Plymouth run better; I have given up. We plan on attending some train shows, in the Fall, and I am 'on the lookout' for another Bachmann Plymouth loco. This engine will be disassembled, reworked to resemble the prototype locomotive it is supposed to model (but doesn't). The plan is to rework the cab area and add Tomar power pick ups instead of the inadequate axle-to-frame transfer these locomotives had installed.

I don't want to put in a lot of effort into a locomotive that will continue to run like a 'growler'. BLI is seriously contemplating introducing a 'critter' based on their successful Trackmobile power unit...I said 'contemplating'...not producing as of yet. Until then, I would like to have a Plymouth that runs as smoothly, and quietly, as my BLI Trackmobile. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Ray

Ray,

Looking over the diagrams for the Plymouth and the Flea, I see a couple of challenges (perhaps you have considered these already).

On the upside, from all accounts NWSL produces some great motors and gearing. I'm sure that is a great product.  I could see adding wheel pickups to all wheels, so smooth running could be achieved.  Mounting the flea in the plymouth is another issue.

On the downside:  it would appear that you would have to do some serious grinding on the split-frame in order to get the gearbox and motor mounted between the frame pieces.  The other big issue is tractive effort.  How would one transfer power to the other drivers?  I'm no engineer, so forgive my ignorance, but I would have a tough time figuring out how to connect the gears to the other sets of wheels.  If you only have two of the six wheels pulling, I could see wheel slippage, even just pulling its own weight, not to mention the loss of weight from grinding out a space for the new motor, AND the loss of weight from pulling the old motor. 

While this seems like a doable project, I wonder if it's worth the effort?  Wouldn't a 44, 45 or 70 ton diesel achieve the same desire?  They are small, transition era diesels, and very inexpensive from my experience at train shows. 

Believe me, I with you.  I'm a do-it-yourself guy.  However, when it comes to small sizes,  I would have to rely on ready-to-run.  I tried like crazy to get an old plymouth (4-wheels instead of 6) running well.  Just couldn't do it--too small, too light, not enough wheels.

Just an opinion from a mediocre modeler.  I really like your Monks Island layout.  You do need a small, really reliable loco to run ops.  I vote for the 44 ton.  50 bucks a most shows.

I did see the video of that little trackmobile in action.  Very cool, but I'll bet it needs perfect track to run well.

That'll be two cents, please. ;D

Regards,

Jonathan

P.S. Bachmann saved me by making the 44-tonner, which is tiny, and runs smooth as glass, even through turnouts.

NWSL used to make a powered truck, called, I think, a PDT.  I know at one time they were very popular for re-powering Athearn Hi-F (aka rubber band) drive RDC's and trollies.  Different wheel-bases and wheel sizes were offered.  Don't know if they're still available, but if so, that's another possibility.

Guys, thanks for getting back to my question so rapidly.

Jonathan: Yes, I already reached the conclusion that one driven axle would probably not work out. The maximum number of cars I push/pull at any one time is 4, Assuming these are all 40' cars - weighted to NMRA standards (which all my rolling stock is) - that means this little critter is trying to move 15 oz. + itself...not good. Also the further complication involving the lack of space between the body and the split frame (let alone the renovating of the frame itself) makes for a project that just isn't worth attempting. You can't make a $40 toy engine perform like an $80+ unit (I guess that is why the BLI Trackmobile runs so well).

Old Timer: Yes, I certainly do remember those awful Hi-F drive Athearn locomotives. I did a quick check of the NWSL website and did not see those PDT units. Thankfully those Hi-F units haven't been made in years...I guess there isn't enough call for that motor/gear replacement unit.

Regarding the 44 and 45-Tonners: I think they are both too large for my layout. The Plymouth measures 4" (or 10 cms.) long less couplers. I can't seem to find the dimensions for the 44 or 45 Tonners - but will assume they are somewhat larger. Jonathan (or anyone else reading this): What are the lengths of these locomotives?

I guess I should say to anyone out there contemplating a mini/micro switching layout that the Bachmann Plymouth runs OK. It 'grinds' and 'growls' despite a good run in, gear train cleaning and lubing. If I were really, really clever (and I am not); I would transplant the running gear of the BLI Trackmobile into the Plymouth's body...now that would be a project!

Regards,
Ray

From a thread in 2008, Tim writes that the 44 ton's length is 3.804" at the end beams (assuming that means without the couplers).  Don't have mine in front of me, but will measure it tonight.

Interestingly enough that is almost exactly the same length as my Dockside Switcher from front pilot step to rear step.

R,

J

From the end of each coupler, the 44 ton is 4.75" in length.  It's nearly 4.25" from front step to rear step. Is that too long?

Regards,

Jonathan

The 45 ton DCC  is the best running loco out of all of them !! I use it on a small 4 ' x 12" layout  it's great! Don't forget that is still a spectrum model, better pick ups ! really slow speed Too!

Thanks guys...you have now added TWO locomotives to the mix. Frankly I like them both (now if I could just find that money tree).

Jonathan, the 44-Ton is only a quarter of an inch larger than the Plymouth - which means it would definitely work on the Monks' Island Railway. The price is a little easier to swallow than the 45-Tonner as well. But...

Kamerand47: Oooh, I really like the looks of that 45-Tonner - but am a little leery of the price (the best I could find was $79 verses $58.50 for the 44-Tonner). You seem to really like that 45-Tonner...what is its length (front step to rear step)? Are your turnouts equipped with insulated frogs?

I assume either of these beauties will run on DC as they both feature dual mode decoders...a plus. Gosh, my wallet is really vibrating!

Many thanks,
Ray

Always glad to help someone empty their bank account! ;D

the 45 tonner should be about the same size as the 44 tonner.

another possibility is the emd model 40, made a few years back by roundhouse. the prototype was a very rare (11 built?) ww2 era switcher. it has only 2 axles, and should be under 3" in length.....

I like the emd model 40 critter, I think there were 12 built.

I have been eyeing the flea for two small Plymouth engines made by tyco I have had for many years.

One concern I have is can the flea be converted to DCC?

Is it even feasible?

Yes, a flea can be converted to DCC.  The conversion to DCC is feasable.  Conversion of the Tyco Plymouth to run on a flea - I don't know if that is feasable, but why not?

I too have a Tyco Plymouth.  Mine came with machine guns mounted on the sides.

Jim

I definitely have my eye on either the 44 or 45 Tonners. Admittedly I am 'leaning' towards the 45 Tonner because it is a Bachmann Spectrum product (if it runs as well as my 2 Spectrum 4-4-0s I will be ecstatic).

The first priority is to purchase another handheld throttle from a source in Canada. Depending upon how well I do, selling some items on eBay, I will 'splurge' on a new locomotive...probably an undecorated 45 Tonner. Again, I will have to see how the finances work out.

Today's project is to start wiring the Sweet Haven section. Gosh...do I hate DC wiring! After exclusively using DCC for 5 or 6 years (I haven't had a DC powered layout in over 15 years), one forgets how complicated DC wiring can get (especially when you are factoring in 2 cabs). Take it for me: DCC is the best thing to come along since air conditioning.

Cheers,
Ray

PS: If I change out the Peco Insulfrog double slip turnout and the Peco Insulfrog crossing - replacing them with Electrofrog units - I could go DCC...hmmmm.

I use # 4 insulfrog turnouts No prpblem The 45 is a little shorter than the 44 & the 45 tom is night & day in slow speed to the 44 ton  & those drive rods are great to watch!! T have all 3  70 ton the worst runner 44 ton next & the 45 ton  the BEST!!! by far!!

Nice talking with you again kamerad47. I 'broached' the subject of purchasing a new locomotive with the Road Superintendant (she has been superintendant for almost 30 years now) and got the OK...if I sell that aviation GPS on eBay. One hurdle passed...

It was interesting to learn that you have no problems with your Insulfrog turnouts...that would not be true with the Plymouth or Trackmobile. You have given another plus to the 45 Tonner! [I really, really don't want to replace that double slip and crossing anyway.]

Best wishes,
Ray

Ray I have to ask you a ? do you clean your track? Use a product called Brasso from wal mart $2.79 , put some on the rails with a Q tip & wipe it of with a clean rag ! & you will be surprised by how much black stuff comes off !!!!! try it !!!! May be the Plymouth & the Trackmoblie will run better!!!!! I have a 25' crossing & i could get the 45 ton threw it , it stalled !!! I tried everything no go . i was just about to chuk it, when I tried this stuff & it runs threw it at slow speeds no problem!!!!

Hey Guys...I thought this thread was dead (hmmm, a poet and I didn't know it). Thanks for the advice kamerad47 - I'll have to look for Brasso. Also, I want to thank you for your suggestion about our new engine - and Bachmann for making a superb little critter in the GE 45 Tonner. What a smooth running machine! I run it on DC and it performs extremely well...trust me, you gotta have one of these!

I've been working on the Sweet Haven section (addition?) to the Monks' Island Railway and thought I'd include a couple of pictures. Yes, these are shamelessly 'staged'. The first one shows Monks' Island Ry #3 (Plymouth WDT) holding with an empty hopper (more ballast needed?) for M.I. #4 that wonderful Bachmann GE 45 Tonner (which is respotting an MOW tool car).
In this shot, I attempt to show you the rest of the section. In the background is Island Lumber Co. (or a portion of it). As you can see there are lots of 'projects' yet to be completed. This evening should complete the ballasting and track weathering segment.
The Monk's Island Brewery end (more correctly: Molena Point) and the Sweet Haven section can be run separately and played as one large switching problem...or 2 small ones. There are hours of 'entertainment' on a layout that measures roughly 9' in length.

There is still lots to do...unfortunately we are leaving on another trip. I will post some additional pictures on a new thread when there is something to show.

Regards,
Ray

I have put a DZ125 decoder in the Plymouth but still working to improve the pickups.

I have two single motor 44 tonners with LokSound mini sound decoders. They are great runners.

Rich

Rich, the decoder project for the Plymouth sounds interesting. Frankly I can't see spending money on a toy locomotive. The Bachmann Plymouth has plastic gearing (with copious amounts of run-out slop), a mediocre motor and poor electrical pick up (ie. transfer via axle-to-frame). The 45 Tonner, however, is a completely different animal (or critter). I paid $39 for the Plymouth and $81 for the 45 Tonner...all in all the GE is the better bargain. Do keep us informed on the Plymouth project as I love the looks of the little bugger...'just wish it ran better.

Ray

Uh-Oh!

Is your micro layout turning into a macro layout?

More switching= More fun!

Yikes Jonathan - you may be right! No, actually this is as large as the Monks' Island Railway will ever get. While I enjoy operating the original mini layout (Molena Point & Monks' Island Brewery); it became clear that I needed another location on the island to send cars...hence: Sweet Haven.

I took this view of the entire project this morning (a photographer I am not). The layout will eventually get a proscenium that will hide the lighting and limit the view of that seemingly endless expanse of black.
If you look carefully, you can see that the layout is divided into two sections - utilizing a scenic divider. This type of stage craft allows the director to have two totally different scenes - in close proximity - while keeping the same theme.

The original side of the layout (Molena Point) measures 62" x 11". The new Sweet Haven section measures 60" x 15". This portion of the layout had to be wider to allow for more 'open' switching. The whole layout fits along one wall of the room and still allows some space for cassettes (if the need arises). Both of these plans were shamelessly copied from Carl Arendt's website (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery).

I will post more images when the project gets a little further along (don't hold your breath). Folks, my intent is to show what is possible in a relatively small amount of space...and with a reasonable expenditure of funds. I think jettrainfan said it best; "More switching = More fun!"

Ray

Great stuff, Ray.

Looking forward to hearing about your third career in Theater Set Design. ;D

Regards,

Jonathan

Quote from: CNE Runner on September 07, 2010, 07:31:47 PM
Rich, the decoder project for the Plymouth sounds interesting. Frankly I can't see spending money on a toy locomotive. The Bachmann Plymouth has plastic gearing (with copious amounts of run-out slop), a mediocre motor and poor electrical pick up (ie. transfer via axle-to-frame). The 45 Tonner, however, is a completely different animal (or critter). I paid $39 for the Plymouth and $81 for the 45 Tonner...all in all the GE is the better bargain. Do keep us informed on the Plymouth project as I love the looks of the little bugger...'just wish it ran better.

Ray

The DZ125 is available for $19.95 so I picked up some. The pickups are the issue and I am going to try some Tomar wipers. I have looked at the diagram of the Plymouth and I see there is a different motor.
Mine has the pancake motor. On the workbench, I used some #30 wires from the decoder directly to the motor and it ran fairly well. I just consider this a challenge.

I use a DZ125 in a Mantua 0-6-0T. The decoder has some good specs.
I am considering the new SoundTraxx non sound decoders that seem to work quite well from some reports I have read.
A DZ125 would work very well in the 45 Ton. The decoder is advertised as Z scale but it handles 1 amp. It has BEMF and two FX3 functions.

Most locos now have plastic gears and use a brass or steel worm. There is a quality issue with some plastic gears though.
I managed to spin some teeth off the plastic worm gear in the John Bull. I had cleaned up the pickups for that tender but hit the power too fast and the motor took off and stripped a few teeth of the worm gear. There is a lot of gear reduction with quite tiny teeth on the gears. The Bull does make a nice display model.

Rich

Rich - Your decoder project, for the Plymouth, sounds interesting and you seem to know the subject well. Question: What are FX3 functions? Please keep in mind you are dealing with a person who has limited (at best) electronic knowledge and buys his locomotives DCC-equipped.

The power pick up problem will be a 'tough nut' to crack (i.e. cheap). I have looked at my Plymouth and can see no viable way to add the Tomar units. Incidentally, the Tomar pick ups have worked flawlessly on each of my transfer tables (traversers). I am very interested in your research.

The gearing will be a problem. Unfortunately NWSL doesn't offer a gear/motor package for this locomotive...probably because it is of 'toy' quality. You mention a Mantua 0-6-0T? I also have one of these that is a very poor runner and will probably send it to Yardbird Models for re-gearing. This is a newer unit and has a skew-wound can motor so new gearing should be all it needs. Unfortunately there are lots of other demands on my model railroad budget so the 0-6-0T will remain in storage.

Oh, for those of you considering a Bachmann 45 Ton switcher: My unit traverses the two Peco Insulfrog units on the layout with ease. As I mentioned earlier; this is a quality product that is light years ahead of the Plymouth.

Ray

Hi CNE Runner

FX3 is the label Digitrax uses for different lighting functions in their decoders.

Do a search for digitrax fx3.

To make it easier for you, go to the below link.

http://www.digitrax.com/decfunctions.php

Below is a link to another explanation from a Google search.

http://www.loystoys.com/info/fx-lighting.html

Store the links in Favorites for future reference and to give to others with the same qustion.

The 2-6-0 cab forward project I posted some time ago is the 0-6-0T turned backwards and has a can motor with plenty of room in the loco for the DZ125.

Rich

Thanks for the information Rich...I get smarter every day.

Ray