Dear Bach Man,
Any chance of getting some of those delta trailing trucks that are now being supplied extra in the newest runs of the Heavy Mountain.
I'm sure they would sell well. I would take at least 6, I know steamgene wants some.
I'll bet half the people who have bought Mountains and 2-6-6-2's would buy them to upgrade their locos.
This is another example of the need for a real parts department.
Sheldon
If they fit, I'd get Delta trailing trucks for all my light Mikes, light Pacifics, light Mountains, and Texans. That would be about 15.
Gene
Dear Sheldon and Gene,
I agree. I'll keep pushing...
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Thanks. Should I ask my cousin Luigi in New Jersey to help you "push"? :o
Gene
Hmmmm, Luigi in Joisey? Is that Luigi "the whacker"?
I could use 4 sets myself too.
Cousin Luigi used to make fish feeders for some organizations with foreign names. An independent contractor, he says. He's retired now, but still keeps a few sacks of cement and old washtubs in his basement. "Fur ole time's sake," he says.
Gene
Available options are:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/585-31557
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/585-31556
You may also want to check Bowser and Athearn.
I can't speak for Sheldon, but the one I have requires more soldering ability than I currently have. Also, please note the price.
I don't think Athearn has any Delta trailing trucks.
Bowser might.
Gene
Nigel,
Thanks for the links. Do you know what is meant by "requiring 45 inch wheels"? Am I correct in assuming that the trailing trucks do not come with wheels?
Bill
Bill, they do not come with wheels. You will have to order 45" diameter wheels for the trailing trucks. They also come in about four pieces which must be soldered together.
Gene
Thanks Gene. That does it, I too have limited soldering ability so I'll wait until Bachmann comes out with some....if they ever do. (hint, hint Mr. B)
As far as the Walthers link Nigel provided, they do show wheels in the picture. Seems a little misleading in a way. It would also be nice if they would mention that assembly is required.
Mantua has a Delta trailing truck. Unfortunately, it works only for Mantua locomotives as the swing arms are much too small for any other model. :(
Gene
OK,
Anyone who buys a new Heavy Mountain with sound and is not going to use the extra Delta trailing truck, I will be happy to purchase them from you.
That encludes the Bachmann service department, who I plan to write to about this soon.
Sheldon
Likewise, I'm sure. Do all the heavy Mountains with sound come with Delta trailing trucks as extras?
Gene
Gene,
It seems that all the new Heavies with sound have the Delta truck included extra and all the new Santa Fe's with sound have the older style included extra.
I observed this at one of our local shops that sells/stocks a lot of Bachmann. The new sound locos are in clear view packaging and regardles of road name, they all had an extra trailing truck.
If they are making all those, surely they can send Phily a hundred or so.
I don't know if newer runs of any of these locos without sound have them as the packaging appears to be the same as before for the non sound units.
My offer stands, I will buy surplus Deltas from anyone not planning to use theirs
Sheldon
I also will buy surplus Delta trailing trucks.
Gene
Quote from: atlanticcentral on February 14, 2007, 03:50:51 PM
........
If they are making all those, surely they can send Phily a hundred or so.
.......
Maybe not. It depends on the business license they have in China. Many companies cannot export anything but "value added assemblies". A trailing truck by itself may not be considered to have enough value add.
Nigel,
Maybe, but there should be some creative way around that. Many have been begging for real supply of extra parts for some time. A complete "service kit" of psrts would surely have a suitable value ad.
And, I will ask again, what happenes to all the warranty returns that don't get repaired? I have an idea, they could give them to me and would run a parts division for them.
Sheldon
Good ideas. I know, Sheldon, if they don't start offering Delta trailing trucks, you and I could go to their office and start singing "All I Want for Chritsmas is some Delta Trucks." I don't know about you, but I've been kicked out of fourteen church choirs.
'Gene
At least they let you try out for the choir! My singing would bring a new level of rejection on American Idol.
But maybe the mear threat will get us some action.
Sheldon
I would love to get hold of the Spectrum Heavy Mountain 'Delta trailing trucks'.
I got an old Mantua Delta, and after lots and lots of 'carving' with a Dremel grinder, got it to fit under my present Spectrum Heavy Mountain ... but I am sure the Spectrum Deltas 'look' much better.
I too would be interested in purchasing a Spectrum 'Delta truck' from anyone who has one but doesn't need it (or 2 or 3 ... :-)
lanny nicolet
The Delta trailing truck also comes with the 2-10-2, or some of them. Strangely, it doesn't come with the undecorated one.
Gene
Lanny,
What did you carve on the Mantua Deltas to make them fit? The samples I have are all way too short. What did you do, add a short bar?
Gene
Sheldon, Gene, and all;
I just checked "Precision Scale Models" and they do have that same delta truck as Nigel referred. My guess is that Walthers carries their parts (I don't usually bother with the Walthers Catalogue).
Precision makes some really nice parts! I think you will be very happy with them..Question of money? Welllll, there is always another paper route...
On the issue of brass v. plastic: I don't tell anyone what to do, but for my money, any-and I mean ANY-parts I put on a steamer, are going to be brass-if for no other reason, than for the weight; also however, I truely believe that, for the most part, the resolution with brass is much better.
PARTS SOURCES:
Greenway Productions
Bowser(Cal-Scale, Cary)
Preecision Scale Models
There are others, but I think these may well cover the average bear.
Rich
Oh, That Delta truck on an Athearn Mike might work for the derailing feature that their mikes are so world-renowned for.
Hi Gene,
I took a photo (composite) of what I did to make the Mantua Delta Truck fit my Spec heavy Moutain. Here it is.
Since I have accquired some more Spec Heavys to 'bash' into true ICRR models, I will be using these trucks. There is a source on eBay that has them for sale (they look new, but may be repro parts) for $5.95 plus shipping. Use 'trailing truck' for your search word in eBay.
I have some more 'clean up' and final shaping to do, but this truck is working fine. You'll need a Dremel with fresh cutting disks and a file for final smoothing. My spec Heavy runs very nicely with this truck attached.
Rich ... thanks for the 'heads up on Precision Scale. I have been searching Bowser, Cal Scale, etc. and have not been able to find any Delta trucks from that source.
lanny nicolet
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/983/deltacompositenb2.jpg)
Hi again, Gene and all,
Here is the URL for the eBay guy that sells "Varney" style and "Penn Line" style Delta trucks. I have a couple, but have not checked to see 'if' or 'how well' they will fit the Spec Heavy Mtn. (Hope the URL works ... if not go to eBay and search for 'yardbirdtrains'. He has lots of parts available, about 1800 sales with 100% feedback.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290126748963&rd=1&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290126748963&rd=1&rd=1)
lanny nicolet
Lanny,
It looks like you narrowed the area around the screw hole. Is this correct?
Gene
Rich,
Thanks for the thoughts. I am well aware of Precision Scale and Bowser and even have a current copy of both their steam loco parts catalogs. The real point here is since Bachmann is actually making the part, it would be nice to get one that did not require reeming, filing, adjusting, etc, etc to install.
As to brass vs plastic, well in my 35 years in this hobby, I have seen some very good and very bad in both, so I will judge each piece on its own merrits and use or not use it acordingly. I do agree with the brass advantage of weight.
As for athearn mike, not to defend that thing, but I never had any derailment problems with mine, before or after adding weight. I can see the potential problem before they are weighted because they are tail heavy, but mine all run fine.
Money - trains are like BMW's and swimming pools, if you have to ask how much, your in the wrong hobby. I know this will set off some flamers, but its just how I was raised. Like you implied, if you want it, earn more money.
Still hope Bachmann finds a way to sell parts.
Sheldon
Hi Lanny;
The two Delta trucks that have been pictured here do have a difference; and that is that the one first shown (as well the precision model) is designed as a booster, which I found interesting. The only boosters I had known about were the Franklin type for two axles, and there was the obvious rod linkages on that assemblage.
If you really want an impressive Mike, try using that C&O type pilot truck. I am not sure if there is any prototypical connection, but I bet it would surely look good; albiet some tweaking of major proportions might be the order of the day.
I don't know off-hand, how much prep work the brass would take; I am sure there is going to be some tweaking.
Rich
Rich,
"C&O type pilot truck" ? Are you refering to the external bearing type as seen on Lima Bershires, etc?
If so yes, there is a Mikado prottype with that type of lead truck. The Detroit, Toledo & Ironton had large, actually very large 2-8-2's, built by Lima, super powered and in fact, just as powerful as berk. These have large straight boilers like the Mantua mike and may have been at least part of the inspiration for that model.
Sheldon
Sheldon;
I wasn't aware of that; about the only thing I ever saw those pilot trucks under was a Berkshire, as you said. I think the Texas's had them too. I will look in the Steam Encyc." later on. Did that Mike have an elesco feedwater?...
RIch
Rich,
No, they had Worthington type SA feedwater heaters, Dual compound air pumps on the pilot deck, a la B&O, A large single sand dome like Lima berk, all weather cab, enclosed injector turret, and large tenders with six wheel buckeye trucks.
You would be real close just by putting an all weather cab and single alxe delta trailer on a C&O or NKP berk, except for the valve gear, these has Walshaert, not Baker.
Drawings and photos can be found in "The Locomotive Cyclopedia - vol 1" by Hundman Publishing - 1998.
They where, I believe, the third largest/heaviest mikes ever built.
Sheldon
Rich, I found a picture on the web at:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dti/dti-s800.jpg (http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dti/dti-s800.jpg)
Sheldon
Hi Gene,
Yes. That's where the Dremel with the cutter disk was very helpful. There is some careful cutting that needs to be done in order to thin the 'yoke'(?) where the truck is screwed to the body.
After I took those photos, I 'thinned' & 'evened' that area with a small file. It really doesn't take too long and, as I said, the Spec Heavy Mtn runs very nicely with that truck. Piping and other detailing will make a 'kit bashed' ICRR Mtn look great. (There is a fair amount of material that needs to be taken off the back as well).
Someone mentioned the eBay source that posted. I found out that these are indeed 'new' 'repro' parts to fit old style Penn line and Varney locomotives. For the Spec Heavy Mtn it looks to me like only the first of the two would work very well...and it would have to be ground down too.
As to 'booster engines' on the Delta truck, I believe I am right in saying that ICRR did not use boosters, so if I accquired a Delta truck with boosters, they would need to be removed.
The Manuta Deltas (such as my picture shows) are not very accurate as far as i can tell, however a bit of added detailing wil make them workable. There is another eBay seller that sells these for $5.95 plus shipping. I think he has a few in stock. Use 'Mantua Truck' to do an eBay search.
lanny nicolet
Sheldon;
OK, Bro; now ya got me all excited!! I like the looks of that engine!! I think one of my BLI heavy Mikes as a starting point, change the trucks on the tender, ala Greenway's brass sprung buckeyes, and-naturally-the omnipresent Elesco feedwater heater hanging, heavy-browed, offthe smokebox, the bell clanging inexorably beneath it. The covered turret is a no-no, though. Gotta see the plumbing! I am sure if there are any DT&I purists reading this, they are probably frothing at the mouth by now!! It would be like some other nut putting faivley pans on a NH EF-3, and asking me if I liked it...
OK: Precision Delta and C&O pilot, here I come! And now you know...the rest of the story!!
Seriously, I never saw a Mike with a sand dome like that! What was Lima's reasons for the size; or was it just dictated by the size of the engine?
Rich
Rich,
Yes it is a very good looking loco! Lima built these for DT&I starting in 1940, very modern for a Mike when most roads where buying Berks and Northerns. I'm sure some of its features like the sand dome, front truck, etc, are actually the same parts as the typical Lima Berk.
My bigger question has always been, why the all weather cabs in Ohio? Not exactly the coldest winters by any means.
Not sure if you can really capture the look with a BLI mike, one most distintive feature is the straight boiler, common on lots of "modern" steam. Lima Berks and a ll their larger wheel arangement cosins, Reading T-1's, etc.
These locos may well be the most modern Mikes ever built. They where "super powered" from a boiler capacity/engine consumption standpoint, worked at 260 psi, and had all the "features" of the Berk.
And they sure are good looking. The Mantua mike is actually a very good starting point, but it would be a typical "big job" diecast build up.
Or Bachmann could do them!!!!!!!! I would buy at least 6. maybe more. Somebody mass produces them and I will make them the backbone of my freight power.
Sheldon
Or Bachmann could do them!!!!!!!! I would buy at least 6. maybe more. Somebody mass produces them and I will make them the backbone of my freight power.
Hear that, Johann? I believe someone once uttered the line; "If you build it, they will come"...
Sheldon;
I have a couple of Mantua MIkes older than Methusla, and I am getting intrigued by this. Besides, I know I can find a tender to put behind them (no no-not the Mantua ones!!), and if I am going that far, why I bet I could squeeze in a Tsunami also...
Rich
ld squeeze a Tsunami in also!
Rich,
I carried the book to the work shop and compaired the drawing to a Mantua mike I have laying around. A new sand dome and steam dome and the boiler is spot on. Precision scale still makes the all weather cab that fits those mikes. Its not exactly like the DT&I one, but its close. A better tender, some detail parts, there you are.
And Alliance makes a nice can motor conversion for those locos.
Hurry up Johann, tell Mr. Riley before we get started on these conversions.
Sheldon
Shoot,
Johann, tell Mr. Riley you have an order for 50 Delta trailing trucks between about three members.
Here's mine:
2 USRA light Pacifics
1 USRA heavy Mountain
2 USRA light Mountains (maybe 4)
6 USRA light Mikes
1 USRA heavy Mike
1 USRA light Santa Fe
1 USRA heavy Santa Fe
1 generic heavy Santa Fe
1 USRA light Mallet
That's 18 Delta trailing trucks from one person. Up front.
Gene
Maybe a few more.
And,
I would take at least 10 now that I count, for my:
5 USRA heavy Mountains
2 USRA light Mikes
3 USRA 2-6-6-2's
Looks like a lot of money to made Mr. Riley
Sheldon
And,
Add me in for a dozen of them!
lanny nicolet
I think you guys might be missing the point here. I understand your desire for parts-in particular, that Delta truck; however, in order for you to have them, they first must reach your LHR, or whomever you deal with. Mr. Riley, an importer, is not a manufacturer; Kader is THE manufacturer. A nominal production run of anything rarely includes an inordinate amount of spare parts as ancillary items for sale; usually just enough of everything is made to cover thier operation, with some extra for the goof factor-not nearly enough to be called a parts for sale proposition. certainly the aspect of marketing such in that case, woudn't be a priority-not for Kader, not for anyone else, either.
For those parts to appear, a production schedule would have to be put into effect for them, et al. It wold be poor practice to have a work force jumping willy nilly from one small lot run to another, when you already have a profit in sight in a larger production operation of a whole finished product.
This , I think, is why guys like George Sellios and Bob VanGelder operate like they do-produce 500 kits; once they are gone, they are gone. They have made a good profit, with no loose ends, other than warranty issues, if any.
Here is where, I believe, people like Precision, Greenway, Bowser, et al have their place, because they DO do small lot production runs-you will pay the price for that; but, in my eyes, it is worth it, considering the quality of the product-not knocking Kader or anyone else here-and the fact that is is made available in the first place!
So, to initiate the production of those parts by kader, (they) will have to set up a production schedule for it. That may or may not happen, depending on their set-up and priorities. A simple thing, no? No!
WHile I am not making up excuses for Kader, Riley, or anyone else, I am pointing out how this all comes together. Believe me when I say, cash is king, and profit is cash. This happens in any business, large or small-like mine.
Rich
Rich,
I understand and agree, to a point. Actually however this is not the case with much of the industry. Many of bachmann's biggest competitors have no problem suppling parts for their products.
Examples:
Athearn - Except for the geared drivers for a loco they did not actually make, I have never had any problem getting Athearn parts. That includes getting parts for the brand new, China made, new tooling, 50' ice reefers. When I recently needed parts for these new 50' reefers, I sent an E-mail and recieved the parts in a week. Athearn is bigger than Bachmann, at least from the standpoint of the size of their US line, but yet they manage to run a complete parts department.
Proto2000 - I have bought long lists of replacement parts for kitbashing from them for numerious products in their line. Same story, called them up, gave them part numbers and payment info, presto! parts show up in the mail. Only the last few production runs before the Walthers take over seem to be short on parts, and Larry at the Walthers parts department says they are working to correct this. Basicly the interum owners of Life Like stiffed them to save a dollar or two. This product line is also made in China.
Both of these companies simply order a fixed precentage of parts with every run. And, in fact the part in question is used on several locos and now the locos in question are being supplied with both trailing trucks.
Kader needs to realize it is not selling toys to children but rather is selling operating models to adults and provide service beyond simple wholesale replacement of product. Then this parts inventory would do double duty and earn its keep. Just like it does at Athearn, Walthers, Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. As I have said before, a working parts department would be the crowning touch to what has moved from a cheap toy trains to one of the industries best products.
Sheldon
Rich,
I have to agree with Sheldon. Case in point, I have two Bachmann USRA 0-6-0s from their more recent run, which means they don't have opoerating front couplers. So I called Life Like and asked about a pilot. Now both Bachmann USRA 0-6-0s have a pilot, hence an operating front coupler, courtesy of Life Like.
If nothing else, they can salvage parts from returns.
Why have a part number in the diagram if there are no parts to match the number?
Gene