I sent in my bachmann spectrum loco last week for a small part problem
i am Extremley happy on what the've done
they sent me
an entireley new train
i was asstonished when it came
didn't "need" to be replaced
but gee im just happy that the bachmann co. is so generous
Thanks Bachmann!
You sent in a loco and they sent you back a train?
WOW, that is good service.
You sent in a loco and you got it back in a week! Even more WOW!
What kind of a train did you get to replace your locomotive? Was the locomotive of your new train the same kind of locomotive you sent in?
Gene
naaa
its not a whole train
same train
an entirley new box
rapped in plastic
sorry if i had misspellings in my last post
i was just very happy ;D
they replaced the 2-8-0 consolidation dcc
with tender!
same one i sent in except now it's entirley new!
There is no such thing as a "whole train." It's either a train or it isn't. So what is it? A new locomotive or a new train? How can it be the same thing but new?
BTW, pointing out that a steam locomotive has a tender is sort of like mentioning a truck and its fuel tank.
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on August 31, 2007, 12:15:54 PM
BTW, pointing out that a steam locomotive has a tender is sort of like mentioning a truck and its fuel tank.
Gene
Does that mean that I have to make a tender for my 2-6-2ST??
No, and it also means that if you have a 2-6-2ST, you don't need to say that it carries its water over is boiler! :D Since the norm for a steam locomotive it goes without saying that it has a tender unless one notes it's a tank engine of some sort.
Gene
So we still have not figured out whether he received a new locomotive or a new train, have we?
Does he even know the difference between a locomotive and a train?
Does he know when a locomotive is a locomotive or when a locomotive on its own IS a train? There is a difference you know, at least in North America.
I love that the locomotive, train, whatever talks to him as he says it was "rapped" Sweeeeeet dude.
yes
"fo shizzle " to you rogertra :D
i'm sorry
i meant loco and tender
they both were replaced in about a week and a day
im surprised bachmann does'nt give it to their service department to fix
so they can keep their jobs ;D
i wonder if you need to go to model train college to work for them...
i bet you need an engineering degree...
ANYWAY
i just wanted to say i was happy to get an entirley new loco and tender after a slight problem...
everyone on this board is very articulate and pays attention to the misspellings on all posts AND WAITS FOR THE MOMENT
to pounce and critisize! :P joking
happy railroading
Not really. This is a "target rich environment" so to speak. :D But some of us think that if you are going to be a model railroader, you need to know exactly what a train is, even though some of the model makers fail to make the correct distinction.
Suppose you see:
1. A C&O 0-10-0 hauling exactly 100 empty hopper cars.
2. The famous picture on the Ma & Pa, consisting of a steam locomotive, one box car, and a caboose.
3. A panoramic picture of the George Washington, from J-2 to the observation car leaving Waynesboro, Va
4. A C&O Allegheny leaving Alleghany, West Virginia with marker lights on its tender.
Which of these is NOT a train?
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on September 01, 2007, 08:50:43 AM
Not really. This is a "target rich environment" so to speak. :D But some of us think that if you are going to be a model railroader, you need to know exactly what a train is, even though some of the model makers fail to make the correct distinction.
Suppose you see:
1. A C&O 0-10-0 hauling exactly 100 empty hopper cars.
2. The famous picture on the Ma & Pa, consisting of a steam locomotive, one box car, and a caboose.
3. A panoramic picture of the George Washington, from J-2 to the observation car leaving Waynesboro, Va
4. A C&O Allegheny leaving Alleghany, West Virginia with marker lights on its tender.
Which of these is NOT a train?
Gene
I'll take a guess:
None of the above? :-\
(I'm probably wrong)
You are. One is not a train. ;D
But to add detail, a brakeman holds onto the ladder of the last hopper and the caboose and observation car were checked by the conductor for compliance before he signaled the engineer to proceed.
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on September 01, 2007, 08:50:43 AM
Not really. This is a "target rich environment" so to speak. :D But some of us think that if you are going to be a model railroader, you need to know exactly what a train is, even though some of the model makers fail to make the correct distinction.
Suppose you see:
1. A C&O 0-10-0 hauling exactly 100 empty hopper cars.
2. The famous picture on the Ma & Pa, consisting of a steam locomotive, one box car, and a caboose.
3. A panoramic picture of the George Washington, from J-2 to the observation car leaving Waynesboro, Va
4. A C&O Allegheny leaving Alleghany, West Virginia with marker lights on its tender.
Which of these is NOT a train?
Gene
My answer is bolded... A picture of a train is not a train.
If that be so, then why is #2 a train? Consistency! Since all off these examples are of times past, you are seeing pictures. Three pictures are pictures of trains. One is not.
You are the reason why laws can get so complex.
"Your Honor, the prosecution specificed my client killed Mr. Jones with his .45 automatic pistol and I showed he used a .45 revolver."
"Case dismissed."
Gene
What IS a train?
"A locomotive, or locomotives, coupled together, with or without cars, displaying markers"
That is a train. Anything else is just locomotives or cars.
Summertrainz
I'm really happy that you received excellent service from Bachmann and yes, we were a bit tough on you and I apologize if I personally upset you.
:D no it makes this board fun to come to
to see your comments
don't worry about it
Quote from: rogertra on September 01, 2007, 03:53:08 PM
What IS a train?
"A locomotive, or locomotives, coupled together, with or without cars, displaying markers"
That is a train. Anything else is just locomotives or cars.
What about MU's? ;)
#4 is only a locomotive but it may stiill be considered a train since the 2-6-6-6 is hauling he tender behind it.
A GP7 would be a better fit gene, but you are as steam guy.
Conrail - AFAIK, a consist is considered a locomotive.
GG, the fact that the H8 is attached to its tender has no bearing on the problem. If it didn't have its tender, it couldn't work. Every day many locomotives move under their own power and are not a train.
Obviously a lesson needs to be taught.
Of the examples, one and only one is not a train or the picture of a train. Which is it?
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on September 01, 2007, 07:57:27 PM
Conrail - AFAIK, a consist is considered a locomotive.
I meant self-propelled cars, like the Pennsy MP-54's.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff83/Penncentral/mp54hbgh.jpg)
A self-propelled car may or may not be a train. Hopefully if it is out on the main, it will be.
Gene
Gene
I always believed a train consisted of a motive power unit plus either freight or passenger capacity. Therefore if the H8 is running light engine it is not a train. However in terms of scheduling, a loco moving light might be considered a train movement. Hmmmm....
And Summertrainz- take heart- even Gene spelt a word wrong on one post within this thread. However I must agree with other posts, the ability to communicate correctly, so that the message received is the same as the one transmitted, is fundamental. Or so my wife tells me. :-\
Paul
Paul,
Your belief is not correct. THe H8 running light is a train based on the description. It could also not be a train if something didn't happen. I THINK most of the helper locos that drifted back to Hinton were trains. Some may have not been for various reasons.
Still waiting.
Gene
seems like from my mis interpretation of my comment i've sparked a wild fire of questions about what is a "train"...
::)
id love to see how it turns out
I am going to say #2.
All the other ones are said to be moving or hauling except #2.
:)
Gene
this is a definition I found
train= a series of railway carriages or wagons moved as a unit by a locomotive or by integral motors.
However, Wikipedia says the following-
In the United Kingdom Section 83(1) of the Railways Act 1993 defines "train" as follows:
a) two or more items of rolling stock coupled together, at least one of which is a locomotive; or
b) a locomotive not coupled to any other rolling stock.
Similarly, the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway's 1948 operating rules define a train as: "An engine or more than one engine coupled, with or without cars, displaying markers."[1]
So is it the markers that are key here ?
Paul
Quote from: Conrail Quality on September 01, 2007, 07:47:20 PM
Quote from: rogertra on September 01, 2007, 03:53:08 PM
What IS a train?
"A locomotive, or locomotives, coupled together, with or without cars, displaying markers"
That is a train. Anything else is just locomotives or cars.
What about MU's? ;)
As I wrote and as the rules, at least in North America dictate that a train is: -
"A locomotive, or locomotives, coupled together, with or without cars, displaying markers"
Therefore, to be a train an M.U. must display markers.
To answer Gene's question. A light engine is a train when it displays markers. To occupy the mainline outside of yard limits the loco, say engine No. 1234, must display markers in order to be a train and thus occupy the main outside yard limits as, for example "Extra 1234 East"
AIUI, an EOT these days counts as "markers". A train is a train as long as it displays markers. As soon as the markers are removed at a terminal, the train ceases to exists and just becomes a cut of cars.
Quote from: ASIANLIFE on September 02, 2007, 12:38:44 AM
Similarly, the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway's 1948 operating rules define a train as: "An engine or more than one engine coupled, with or without cars, displaying markers."[1]
So is it the markers that are key here ?
Paul
Yes, it's the markers that make the train, nothing else. The UK description is irelevant in North America. In North America, no markers, then it's not a train and cannot occupy the mainline outside yard limits.
I have to disagree with Roger in that a train needs two things:
a. locomotive
b. markers.
a lash-up of diesels is a locomotive
an EOT is a marker.
The 0-10-0 with one hundred cars and no markers is not a train, it's a cut of cars being moved. Remember, this is a railroad definition for North America. For instance, I did not include "a long piece of light cloth extending from the head or neck to the feet, often dragging on the floor behind the wearer."
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on September 02, 2007, 08:15:32 AM
I have to disagree with Roger in that a train needs two things:
a. locomotive
b. markers.
a lash-up of diesels is a locomotive
an EOT is a marker.
The 0-10-0 with one hundred cars and no markers is not a train, it's a cut of cars being moved. Remember, this is a railroad definition for North America. For instance, I did not include "a long piece of light cloth extending from the head or neck to the feet, often dragging on the floor behind the wearer."
Gene
Gene,
You're agreeing with me, not disagreeing.
All that's needed to make a train, is markers, nothing else.
A single loco displaying markers is a train and can occupy the mainline oustide yard limits.
A single loco not displaying markers is a locomotive and cannot operate beyond yard limits.
An 0-10-0 with 100 cars, the last of which is displaying markers, is a train and can occupy the mainline outside yard limits.
An 0-10-0 with 100 cars, not displaying markers, is a cut of cars and cannot operate oustide yard limits.
A five car m.u. displaying markers is a train and can occupy the mainline outside yard limits.
A five car m.u. not displaying markers is a cut of cars and cannot operate outside of yard limits.
For "markers" one can substitute EOT for modern practice.
Roger,
If I took a set of markers, each one displaying red to one side and what ever other color the railroad uses to the sides, and set them on each end of a tie, I would not have a train. I have to set them on a locomotive - or its tender to produce a train. Means of locomotion and markers.
You are right, if the rear hopper of a 100 hoppers coupled to a 0-10-0 had markers attached to it, it would be a train. And the conductor would be a very unhappy man!
Gene
So we have a definition for the prototype, but how about the model world.
This thread really started on the basis of Summertrainz sending in a loco, and getting back a train, much to Roger's delight.
The definition including markers cannot easily apply to our models. As I guess Roger was pointing out, the locomotive suddenly became a train, and that was not just Bachmann adding some markers when they returned it.
In modelling terms, do we have a train when a loco gains a consist ?
BTW- Gene and Roger, many thanks for your expertise- enjoyable reading
Paul
Quote from: SteamGene on September 02, 2007, 02:30:28 PM
Roger,
If I took a set of markers, each one displaying red to one side and what ever other color the railroad uses to the sides, and set them on each end of a tie, I would not have a train. I have to set them on a locomotive - or its tender to produce a train. Means of locomotion and markers.
You are right, if the rear hopper of a 100 hoppers coupled to a 0-10-0 had markers attached to it, it would be a train. And the conductor would be a very unhappy man!
Gene
Gene.
The implication is that the markers would be attached to a locomotive, passenger car, M.U., caboose or freight car, thus creating a train.
And you knew that! :D
Roger,
Suppose Conductor Sarah Bellum places marker lights on her caboose, VT&P #99, as it sits on the caboose track. Does that make it a train? (You don't want to know how a woman became a conductor on a Southern railroad in 1957! Suffice it to say that the Late Unpleasantness had some strange fruit. ) :D
Gene
As you do not place markers on a caboose while it sits on the caboose track, it wouldn't make her caboose a train. You only put the markers in place when you are ready to depart.
However, as soon as her caboose is on the departure track, and the markers have been put into place, probably with some cars between her caboose and the power on the front end and depending on the general shape of conductor Sarah Bellum's caboose, I might be tempted to provide a rear end helper to assist her over the steepest grades.