One thing that does bother me, visually, about the otherwise excellent B'mann Mogul DCC w/Sound is the width of the tender body to that of the cab. Must of the pictures I come across show them to be of the same width. I have tried to research specification data, but most do not show the tender width. Is the cab too narrow, or is the tender too wide, or is the model correctly proportioned? Anybody have information on this? Thank, Dave
I always thought it looked too wide too. That tender it comes with, although I am sure prototypical, is not a very good looking one to me, and an unusual one at best. I am looking for a couple of the low rectangular tenders from either the Spectrum 4-4-0 or the 52" driver 4-6-0. I've put one of those tenders behind those moguls (don't have a spare one) as a test, and that engine looks much better all around with it it. Besides, they come with spare part oil bunkers, which is what I really want for my Gulf South road.
I do not have one myself (college has pretty much drained the coffers) but looking at it, the thing that bugs me is that the pilot does not have a deck above it and, the headlight seems... off in size.
While the headlight is prototypical (see the photo of #56 below), it does look a tad absurd.
A pilot deck isn't an absolute necessity, however it definitely needs steps between the running boards and the pilot beam. As built, the model has a single step that leads to a 5-foot (+/-) drop straight onto the pilot wheels. Oops!
As for the tender... I think what's off visually about it is the frame. This size / style of tender tended to have a frame that is narrower than the tank. That overhang was sometimes used for storing a push-pole, re-railers, water hose, or other such tools of the trade as the powers-that-be see fit to equip the locomotive with (see photo of #1376).
(http://www.greenbayroute.com/56build3.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7460/9813189875_b3e2125602_b.jpg)
Here's what both of mine now look like, it was an easy kitbash.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/The%20new%20Great%20Eastern%20Railway/IMG_0603_zps6c13d010.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/The%20new%20Great%20Eastern%20Railway/IMG_0603_zps6c13d010.jpg.html)
Cheers
Roger T.
Thanks for posting the pics piyer. A picture is sure worth a thousand words. I see what you mean about the frame being narrower than the water tank. That takes some of the "clunkyness" away. I'm going to see if I can modify the B'mann to replicate this. In looking at the photo of 1376 though, it sure looks as if the tender is even with the sides of the cab. I'm going to find some steps for the pilot beam, they would certainly add some visual mass to the front. Thanks again, Dave
Dave;
Roger does good work. My thoughts on the tender, if you don't mind doing your own alterations, would be to cut off the coal bunker, and make a smaller one; an interesting variation would be wood sideboards with gussets to support it. I think that might at least give the illusion of not being too imposing.
Rich
SGT C.
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on May 25, 2015, 07:56:15 PM
Dave;
Roger does good work. My thoughts on the tender, if you don't mind doing your own alterations, would be to cut off the coal bunker, and make a smaller one; an interesting variation would be wood sideboards with gussets to support it. I think that might at least give the illusion of not being too imposing.
Rich
SGT C.
Frankly, I was happy with the 2-6-0 tender which is why I left it alone. I still want to add a polling pole and rerailers but they will come later.
On other locos I have modified the tender as you have suggested. Here for example on a Russian 2-10-0 where I've added the coal rails as you suggested in addition to changing the dome, sandbox and stack to remove those big Russian ones: -
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/DSCF0444.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Great_Eastern/DSCF0444.jpg.html)
Here I've shortened the tender of a Spectrum 2-8-0 as I think the one it comes equipped with is a bit large for an engine that spends its time on the way freight: -
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/GER359d-2-8-0No.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Great_Eastern/GER359d-2-8-0No.jpg.html)
Here is a Spectrum 2-8-0 that's been equipped with the tender from a P2K 0-6-0 switcher as I thought the tender was too large for the 0-6-0:-
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/DSCF0237.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Great_Eastern/DSCF0237.jpg.html)
And here's the P2K 0-6-0 with a sloped back tender that I picked up at a train show and modified to fit on the cut down P2K tender chassis. I also added the coal rails.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/DSCF0437.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Great_Eastern/DSCF0437.jpg.html)
And finally, an IHC 2-10-2 modified with an all weather cab and other details and fitted with a Spectrum Hicken oil tender modified for a coal burning engine, shortened by one water course and modified to go behind an all weather cab:-
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/DSCF0385.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/rogertra/media/Great_Eastern/DSCF0385.jpg.html)
Yes, it does seem that kitbashing tenders is my second hobby but it least it gives my fleet a certain GER look. So don't be afraid to have a go.
Cheers
Roger T.
Rich - I have viewed Roger's work on this forum and agree - great modeling.
Roger T. - I like the looks of that 2-8-0 w/P2K switcher tender. I think I'll layout a drawing and start cutting. I have modified models before, but this is such a overall nice loco I hadn't considered cutting and modifying it. Dave
IIRC The width of the tender was mentioned in the MR review of this engine.
GN 2-6-8-0 By any chance do you recall what issue of MR carried that review of the B'mann Mogul? Dave
After reading the comments here about the 2-6-0 tender I had a closer look and yes, it does seem a tad wide. Without measuring it, it looks to be wider than the loco cab, by about six scale inches.
Cheers
Roger T.
The review on this engine is on the MR website,also a nice video,guess I misspoke on the width being mentioned ,didn't see it there must have been elsewhere lol.
Non the less it is a nice little tea kettle for those with tight radius's and desiring a steam locomotive
Update on Mogul tender. Cab measures 1.280 in. (scale 9 ft 3 in.). Tender measures 1.360 in. ( 9 ft 10 in.). It appears B'mann needed to accommodate a round speaker -1.110 in., molded rim to set it in - .040+.040, tender body shell thickness - .055+.055, assembly clearance .030+.030 giving total width of 1.360.
I've drawn up my plans for reducing the width to match the cab, and will be using a Railmaster Hobbies DS1424-8 cube speaker. Have one of these in my B'mann Shay and it sounds fantastic.
Note concerning B'mann speaker mounting. Two brass clips held by screws secure the speaker inside plastic rim. When I removed the shell, the speaker was rattling around in the molded cavity, very loose. I always thought the sound was not quite right, now I know why. Dave
Quote from: DAVE2744 on June 05, 2015, 03:55:38 PM
Update on Mogul tender. Cab measures 1.280 in. (scale 9 ft 3 in.). Tender measures 1.360 in. ( 9 ft 10 in.).
Dave.
See my post below. I estimated the tender was six inches wider than the cab. Seems it's seven inches wider. Pretty good guess eh? :)
More importantly, thanks for the tip about the loose speaker. I'll check my two engines out ASAP.
Cheers
Roger T.
Update on tender rework project. Cut shell, frame etc. to achieve a "lighter" look to the tender. Width now matches cab. So much better looking. Raised the frame rails up into the shell 3 in. so tops of wheels show, as most of the photos I found featured this. Also moved the frame rails in toward the center to create the "overhang" along the lower edge of the water tank. I hope these first pictures show.
http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/library/MOGULproject2015
If all went OK there should be two pictures, org tender and modified tender. I hope the full length of the loco and tender are showing, as the Photobucket views appeared to have croppped some of the border off.
I will post my pics of the cutting process if this post worked properly, otherwise I will need some help as to what I did wrong with picture posting process. Dave
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/MOGULproject2015/Mogulreworked1_zpsusftw0kw.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/MOGULproject2015/Mogulreworked1_zpsusftw0kw.jpg.html)
You can select the "IMG" address next to your photo and paste directly to your post. Nice work!
Regards,
Jonathan
Thank you Jonathan for the compliment. I sure was nervous when I made that first cut into the frame. I found out that the IMG option is only available when a single picture is in view in Photobucket. I was in the Library view, and that option is not available there. I thought it would transfer all the pics in the folder. Am I understanding correctly that I need to jump back and forth between posting & P'bucket until all pictures are inserted to post? Thanks, Dave
The only way I know is one at a time, back and forth, like you mentioned. There may be a way to select a number of pix and paste all at once, but I don't know how.
Regards,
Jonathan
Jonathan, thanks for the info on p'bkt. I noticed that only the "address" of the photos showed in my post. I was expecting the pictures themselves to be in the post. What did I miss or do wrong? Thankyou for your time and help, Dave
PS - I work a split shift, so I usually only get on the computer midday Central time or late evening
You want to use the "Direct" link from Photobucket to copy the URL, the one that starts with "i930" instead of "s930".
Len
Last night I was working on my layout and happened to spot a tender from a Roundhouse HOn3 C-25. I didn't have time last evening, but am going to have a look-see later on. If this tender is like the shay they produced, then it is a typical "one size fits all" proposition. Any thoughts from you guys?
Rich C.
SGT C.
Hi Roger:
I always enjoy your simple modifications and wonder if you posted any additional information/photos of how you did the smokebox, headlight modification and did you move the tender back up light to the middle?
Thanks,
Barry
Well here goes - I'll try to post my construction pics here.
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/mogulmedtender_zpst84ekg2t.jpg
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0664_zpssp0unls4.jpg
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0664_zpssp0unls4.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0664_zpssp0unls4.jpg.html)
The third address was using the "IMG" button. It only got me a longer address.
Well, something is still not right. I used the i930 direct button, but only the address shows, no pic! I'll stop here until I get some more help from you all,
After doing the third pic post using IMG, after about 40 secs, a picture showed up - Amazing.
Yes Jonathan, you were almost dead on with your estimate of the width of tender vs. loco. Same for using IMG button.
I will start a new post later for a clean start.
Thanks for everyone's help, Dave
Finally, I think I can now show my alterations to the Mogul tender. This weekend I pickup a TSU1000 light steam sound decoder and DS1425-8 cube speaker to replace B'mann card & speaker. Here goes:
Frame rails removed using Zona saw very carefully.
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0664_zpssp0unls4.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0664_zpssp0unls4.jpg.html)
Removal of all mntg studs, spkr rim, screw studs. Rear light led mtg left alone.
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0665_zps0u2bsagb.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0665_zps0u2bsagb.jpg.html)
Fore & aft coal bin walls removed
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0666_zpszdmwc8qd.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0666_zpszdmwc8qd.jpg.html)
Side coal bin wall removed - one to go
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0667_zps0uaajken.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0667_zps0uaajken.jpg.html)
Coal bin gone rear view
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0668_zpsiaxz4n4d.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0668_zpsiaxz4n4d.jpg.html)
Coal bin gone front view
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0669_zpsz12sdadw.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0669_zpsz12sdadw.jpg.html)
Rear retaining tabs removed
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0670_zpsl6yhot6r.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0670_zpsl6yhot6r.jpg.html)
Center strip area to be removed to reduce width of tender to match loco cab
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0671_zps8o2ejlos.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0671_zps8o2ejlos.jpg.html)
Separate water tank wall from top deck-1 side only
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0672_zpskbjup8xk.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0672_zpskbjup8xk.jpg.html)
Water tank wall removed from tank deck and opposite wall
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0673_zpschdbhwz5.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0673_zpschdbhwz5.jpg.html)
Strip remove from tank deck allowing narrowing of tender
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0674_zpsdlcw1tyn.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0674_zpsdlcw1tyn.jpg.html)
First test fit of narrowed tender shell with loco
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0675_zps46fcc7am.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0675_zps46fcc7am.jpg.html)
Reinforce styrene (white) at new joint in water tank rear wall
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0677_zpsjydxc3gk.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0677_zpsjydxc3gk.jpg.html)
Another test fit - moral booster mostly
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0678_zpspfsg2d2k.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0678_zpspfsg2d2k.jpg.html)
Side strip removal on bed plate to allow mtg of frame rails closer to centerline
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0680_zpsjzn9xbr7.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0680_zpsjzn9xbr7.jpg.html)
Placement of .020 in. shim (white) to raise bed frame up 3 in. when glued
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0681_zps9tbgg7ic.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0681_zps9tbgg7ic.jpg.html)
Frame rails attached to bed plate - note bed intersects rails 1/2 way up
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0682_zpszekgjryf.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0682_zpszekgjryf.jpg.html)
Notches in water tack wall to receive raised frame rails-lower edge
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0683_zpskm00rf7s.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0683_zpskm00rf7s.jpg.html)
Test fit of bed w/ rails
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0685_zpsz8mllbzo.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0685_zpsz8mllbzo.jpg.html)
Filler pieces (white) around new coal bin walls
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0686_zps7plxi2b3.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0686_zps7plxi2b3.jpg.html)
New tender - right side
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0687_zpsbq4jm2wk.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0687_zpsbq4jm2wk.jpg.html)
New tender - left side
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0688_zpse5u3lumh.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0688_zpse5u3lumh.jpg.html)
"Builder's Photo"
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0690_zpswurt2mia.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0690_zpswurt2mia.jpg.html)
Top view showing new matching width of loco & tender
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0691_zpsof4lcazp.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0691_zpsof4lcazp.jpg.html)
Perspective - left side
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0694_zpst54ryi6g.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0694_zpst54ryi6g.jpg.html)
Perspective - rear quarter
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0695_zps8kbmijui.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0695_zps8kbmijui.jpg.html)
Perspective - rear (seam not finished)
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0696_zpsgvllsjwz.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0696_zpsgvllsjwz.jpg.html)
Perspective - rear - elevated
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/DSCN0697_zpsjjn0rpzd.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/DSCN0697_zpsjjn0rpzd.jpg.html)
Proto reference-Genesee & Wyoming
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad142/dave2744/mogulmedtender_zpst84ekg2t.jpg) (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/dave2744/media/mogulmedtender_zpst84ekg2t.jpg.html)
Whew! Done. It went smoother than I thought. Even remembered to make back ups as I went along. You know, Murphy is always lurking to strike.
Later I will cut & move stirrup steps outward toward edge of tender.
Thanks again for all the help from everyone, Dave
Glad to see you're getting the hang of photobucket. Your project went great!
Also appreciate getting to see a bit of your layout in the background. Brings is all to life...
Thanks for sharing. Great stuff!
Regards,
Jonathan