Thanks Kevin,

Head end power cars were usually not dedicated, but installed in baggage or combination cars. 

Question on when those plugs were installed!  I'm not surprised to see them on contemporary narrow gauge railroads, but wonder about their existence in, say, 1890, even 1920.  My feeling is that electric lights in narrow gauge passenger coaches is rare, indeed.

jv

Hi Kevin,

Thanks again for your reply.  Please know, I like a good argument, and it's not at all personal, it's fun to dig into these things. 

I just don't buy that head-end power meant loco dynamos for narrow gauge lines.  There are many reasons I feel this way, but the operative word is feel, as I don't have any documentary evidence, nor can I prove a negative.

But, you have provided some great info, and I will keep up the search, too!

jv

Wow, that's interesting Kevin, thanks.

I'd like to apologize to RkyGriz for hijacking this thread.  Please let me know if I should stop pursuing this tangent, and perhaps start a new topic.

So, now, I wonder what particular dynamo is modeled on the BBH Baldwin 4-6-0.

Thinking, though, extension cords connecting cars is not evidence of a locomotive-mounted dynamo for car lighting, it's how it was done with head end power, i.e., axle or turbine powered dynamos in head-end baggage cars. 

I still can find nothing in the literature stating that engine headlight dynamos provided passenger coach lighting power. 

Then it isn't the frog I'm referring to, it's the rightmost of the two, small, metal pieces of rail in the top of the pic I posted. 

Quote from: Joe Zullo on April 20, 2015, 04:32:44 PM
Bachmann never made stainless steel track. It's tin and it rusts big time outdoors.

I don't think it's tin, it's some kind of corrosion resistant steel.  It's magnetic.  I would be surprised it turned out to be tin plated.  Yes, it will rust if exposed to the elements, but I think it's very good indoors, considering the handling it gets. 

I have tried abrasive cleaning on some older pieces, but I'm not satisfied with any technique I've tried yet, except on relatively new track I've wiped it with a cotton cloth with alcohol and then applied Bachmann's conductive oil.  This works very well. 

I would love to hear about home-brew track cleaning fluids.

Getting back to this, thanks Joe - but no, the short isn't caused that way.  I found that one side of the frog is slightly higher than the other; but I don' think that's the problem.  The problem, I am pretty sure, is that the lead truck wheels are too wide!  Mine measure 4.8mm across the tread, i.e., from the corner where the flange and tread meet to the outside edge of the wheel.  The Bachmann metal passenger coach wheels don't short the frog.  They are 4.53mm.  

With a regular DC setup I don't think you could crawl the engine slow enough to detect the short - it would be for a very short duration.  However, with DCC, you can crawl really slowly, and the fast short-circuit detection and protection on the Digitrax Super Chief will shut it down, stopping the engine on the spot.  

I measured bogies on three Bachmann 4-6-0's so far and and all the bogies have this same dimension.

This is also exacerbated by the fact that the piece of the frog that is shorting is slightly proud, i.e., slightly higher that the other.

So, the choices to fix this that I can think of are to:

• modify all of my bogies so the effective tread width is less;
• or insulate just a little bit of the frog so it doesn't short;
• or even disassemble the switch and grind the frog a bit (it's cast stainless steel).
  

.     

I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,

jv

Quote from: Kevin Strong on April 20, 2015, 02:36:46 PM
With regard to the earlier question about using the steam generators on the locomotives to provide electricity for the passenger cars, they provided ample power, at least to a point (well within the needs of narrow gauge passenger trains). Pyle National made generators ranging from 500 to 7500 watts. While the electric lights were an improvement over the older lights, they were still fairly low wattage bulbs, so you could power a lot of them. Locomotive headlights at the time were less than 60 watts. I'd imagine passenger car lights were probably in the 20 - 40 watt range.

Thanks, Kevin.  Do you happen to have any references for that?  I apologize for being so finicky on this, but I just simply can't find any reference to coach lights being powered by the locomotive dynamo that powered the loco lights.  What I have found on Pyle-National dynamos is that they put out about enough for the loco and tender lights - 350 Watts for the model K, 500 for the model K2.  And, intuitively, I can't imagine an early 20th century dynamo of that size putting out anywhere near a kiloWatt, never mind 7.5kW.  Here's a reference from 1919, pretty late in the period of interest:

https://books.google.com/books?id=EJEjAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=steam+locomotive+turbine+dynamo&source=bl&ots=n9LJBcYCuR&sig=aa259TEGTAlJvYvh_8PWtjZ6Vos&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3lI1VemMKYaMNpuigbgN&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=steam%20locomotive%20turbine%20dynamo&f=true

I am pretty sure that electrical coach lighting in the U.S. was by batteries charged in the yard (PRR, for example), or by head end car generators that were small steam engines powered by locomotive boiler steam, driving large dynamos.  Axle powered dynamos never caught on in the U.S., as opposed to the UK and Europe.  I was wrong about this, apparently it did catch on, although slowly, and was adopted by several major lines just after the turn of the century (based on the Moskowitz system).

I'm going to keep reading and researching!  Fascinating topic.  

I've given this some more thought, and have recently done a lot of reading on the topic if lighting in passenger coaches.  I got White's book "The American Railroad Passenger Car," "The Car Builder's Cyclopedia of American Practice," and other reference sources.  What occurs to me is this: oil lamps were just not very bright.  There are historical comments of passengers who would stand in Pintsch gas lit cars rather than sit in oil lamp lit cars so they could read the newspaper.  The historical progression seems to go, roughly, from no lights, to candles, to oil, to gas, the Pintsch gas being dominant in the U.S. from about 1888 to 1928, with oil, gas, and even candle having coexisted historically, to electric in fits and starts, and even combination oil and electric fixtures.  I have a little experience with oil lamps, as I have a couple on my boat, mostly for the 'romantic' effect, and I can personally attest to the fact that an oil lamp at any distance is not a good reading light; and, they do produce soot.  So, the brightly lit passenger cars we see in model railroads must surely be Pintsch gas lamp lit!  Electric lights would be powered by batteries, under each car, or by a "head end" generating car, some of which even had Pintshc gas lamps for illumination if the generators were down for maintenance or repair! 

For modeling, the oil lamp light would be quite warm, I think, warmer than Pintsch gas, probably around 1000K; for Pintsch gas color temperature I can't find a reference, but one can assume cooler than oil, maybe more towards 3000K.  In addition, when mantles were introduced the Pintsch gas lamps burned brighter still, at much reduced fuel consumption, too.  Mantles can't be used with oil lamps. 

So, I'm going to pretend my PRR cars were fitted with Pintsch gas lamps, and ignore the lack of roof vents and the square box below the car in place of the gas tank.  For now.

The Rio Grande Southern ran narrow gauge passenger coaches with Pintsch gas lighting:

https://books.google.com/books?id=qImBxR3p2d8C&pg=PA69&lpg=PA69&dq=pintsch+lamps+in+narrow+gauge+cars?&source=bl&ots=WjEvNOuB9v&sig=cHC5MeNH63pk5uHdpn4ZLrVwgXc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gwM1VcjDHMuhNo2xgMAF&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=pintsch%20lamps%20in%20narrow%20gauge%20cars%3F&f=false

The Durango and Silverton ran narrow gauge coaches (at least one!) with Pintsch gas lamps:

http://www.coloradoinfo.com/travel.asp?pageid=19%7C381%7C561

Here's a car that went from narrow gauge to standard and back to narrow, with Pintsch lighting:

http://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/CandS/dsp-passenger/offcar_050b.htm

Hi Kevin,

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge on these topics.  Gee, I have my heart set on Pintsch gas lighting - oh well!  I'll search for narrow gauge use of it.

I can't find anything about locomotive generators being used to power anything other than head and tail lights, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.  That would be a pretty big generator - where was it mounted, and powered?  I assume steam?

Thanks,

jv

Hi guys,

Joe, your cars look great!  

I assume you guys are all talking about regular DC track power, not DCC?

I, too, have plans for track powered lights in my coaches.  I'm using DCC.  This is not fully executed on all three cars yet.  I purchased full wave bridge rectifiers nearly identical to Kevin's suggestion, but mine are 100V 3A.  I got them on eBay at 5 for $1.99 plus shipping; I ordered 10 and got a shipping discount, so they came out to 74¢ each, delivered.

I then removed the factory lights and put in a 12" strip of LEDs inside the roof.  They are self-adhesive, cut-to-lenght LED strip lights, It's about one LED every 5/8".  They take 12V, but will run on less, down to about 5 or 6V, if I recall correctly.  They are available in warm white, cool white, and a rainbow of colors.  The ones I bought are described on Amazon thus:

"HitLights Warm White SMD3528 LED Light Strip - 300 LEDs, 16.4 Ft Roll, Cut to length - 3000K, 82 Lumens / 1.5 Watts per foot, Requires 12V DC"

$7.99 shipped (Amazon Prime, 2-day), so 2.7¢ per LED, including attachment and resistors.  

I had tried this out with some cool white strip LEDs I had, and it was way too bright, even running off the 9V batteries that are the standard power source for lights in my coaches.  So, I assumed I'd dim them with a resistor, the old trial and error method.  Then I stumbled across these remote control dimmers on Amazon, designed specifically for strip LEDs:

"Lerway Mini LED Controller Dimmer with RF Wireless Remote Control DC 5~24V 12A R106"

These take form 2 to 24V in, and allow dimming from off to full brightness with a keychain-like RF remote control.  One reviewer discusses getting multiple dimmers to respond to the same remote.  They are now $2.85 each!  I bought 3.  

So, for power, I purchased kits of brass tubes, springs, and brushes, which the Bachmann passenger trucks are set up to accept.  I have metal wheels to complete the conversion.  

I will put a capacitor on the rectifier output, but probably also a resistor first, to limit the inrush current when it's first powered up.  A discharged cap looks like a dead short to DC.  There's probably enough bulk resistance in the rectifier to do the job, but why take chances?

So, DCC, track-powered, remotely dimmed, warm-white LED strip lights.  This will work standing still, in reverse, etc.

One final point: the color.  According to John H. White, Jr., in his 1977 article on Pintsch lights in Technology and Culture, the light was "an intense, slightly blue-green flame."  I'm thinking a cool white might be the best match for this.  Pintsch gas lights were the dominant lighting source for the period of these cars, 1888 to 1928 or so.  

Very cool, Chuck!  I like scratchbuilding.  It's hard to beat the parts from Bachmann on this, though, as it includes the brake wheels, etc.  The observation car rear railing would be a challenge, too!

Hi Andrew,

Well, Al had what I wanted and I was happy to pay what he asked.  That's the definition of a marketplace.  You were lucky to find what you did!


BTW, I'm not a fan of Gorilla Glue.  I like cyanoacrylates, but this plastic is difficult stuff to glue things to.  How is this done on the ones that come with metal rails, I wonder?

jv

Hi guys,

I purchased metal platform rails for my PRR passenger coaches; I have an observation car, a coach, and a combination car.  I purchased tow of these:

Rail - Gold (G Passenger Cars - Combine )
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_149&products_id=6038

and one of these;

Jackson Sharp Rail - Gold (G Passenger Cars - Observation )
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_149&products_id=6035

I received them, and they are really beautiful.  On one car, so far, I've removed the plastic rails, which were pressed-in and 'caught' due to a split pin with barbs.  The metal replacement rails, however, do not appear to have any feature to hold them in the holes.  Are they cemented in place, or am I perhaps missing something here?

Thanks much,

jv

Wow, nice job!  I enjoyed the Inyo history, and you did a great job on the wood load in the tender - looks real!

I think the nail polish is a fine idea, maybe better would be a little jar of the Testors model paint, if it's still available.  It used to be commonly found in retail stores but I haven't seen it for years.

I just looked on eBay and Walmart on line.  The killer is the shipping, of course.  "Testors 1145 Gloss White enamel 1/4oz model paint new," $1.84, plus $3.00 shipping.