Folks,
Fixed a problem with a Spectrum Heavy Mountain (4-8-2). This problem has been reported a few times (rare) with some Bachmann locomotives. So it may be worth writing about.
Problem:
The Mountain would run OK by itself, but when running on a track with another locomotive, either as separate trains or doubleheaded, it would hesitate every 6 to 10 feet. The hesitation would last about a second, then the locomotive would continue on as if nothing had happened. Needless to say this was causing me great frustration.
I poured over every inch of electronics and mechanical parts to look for a reason. I had given up on this locomotive to an expensive display piece.
Solution:
One of the regular posters, I wish I could remember who, mentioned in some random thread, that sometimes the inside of the motor could get carbon or some other buildup that causes the motor to hesitate or stop working. I had concluded the only thing I hadn't checked was the inside of the motor. Prior to ordering a new motor, I decided to try to clean it out myself.
I put the loco in a cradle, upsidedown, and ran it at full throttle forward. After 10 minutes, I ran it in reverse, at full throttle, for 10 minutes. Afterwards, there was a small ozone smell, the kind that reminded me of how model trains smelled when I was a kid. I was attempting to burn/clean out whatever might be gumming up the works.
I then put the loco back on the track and used it as a pusher in a 20-car train, with another steamer taking up the lead. It ran just fine for over an hour, running at about 50% throttle.
I can only conclude I had indeed gotten the inside of the motor gunked up, possibly by allowing some lubricant to ooze inside when modifying the said locomotive. Not sure if this is the case, but either way, it now runs just fine and is back in the regular rotation on my roster.
Time will tell if the problem is now corrected permanently. But I'm happy to have it back running well.
Just thought this might be helpful to someone else who has experienced the same mysterious hesitation. Thanks goes to someone who mentioned this in the past few months.
Regards,
Jonathan
If you are running on DCC....try CV11=0 that always works for me for this type of response. ::)
If it does this over a switch, then the wheels may out of correct spacing and it is shorting on the frog.
Quote from: Speedbrake on June 17, 2013, 05:32:27 PM
If you are running on DCC....try CV11=0 that always works for me for this type of response. ::)
If it does this over a switch, then the wheels may out of correct spacing and it is shorting on the frog.
Every 6 to 10 feet does not sound like a frog shorting..................
i had one running high amps cleaned with electrical contact cleaner from .5 amps down to .12 amps without load i think i got a carbon short and it also shut down time to time when i ran it for abount 15 mins . sometimes those easy things can be frustrating but mine was real noticable when i touched it it was way to hot. Dave
Well, the loco started acting up again. Having tested everything, and I mean everything, on this locomotive, I must have what the old hats refer to as a "balky motor". I am hesitant to try any more cleaning of the motor. It must have a bad winding or something else I can't figure out. Anyway, this is beneficial to us, because I now must disassemble and replace the motor. The cost of the motor is way cheaper than a new locomotive, or a trip to the repair shop. And I get to learn something. So...
Here's the frame halves. I've sanded the flash and scrubbed 'em clean:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2543_zps6ed5789e.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2543_zps6ed5789e.jpg.html)
When I pulled the motor, I took some notes, on a paint stick, so I can remember how it was oriented in the frame:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2546_zpsa5ae6c3d.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2546_zpsa5ae6c3d.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2547_zpsea0eaeb6.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2547_zpsea0eaeb6.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2552_zpsa8455c80.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2552_zpsa8455c80.jpg.html)
I also cleaned the other little parts and put them in a bag for safe keeping:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2548_zps297ad09b.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2548_zps297ad09b.jpg.html)
By the way, the universal drive belts are now back in stock. I ordered two, along with the motor, just to have a couple spares around.
For the wheel assembly, I put in a 2-56 screw, nut, and washers to keep the steam chest from falling out:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2553_zps91e53bd5.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2553_zps91e53bd5.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2554_zps604110e6.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2554_zps604110e6.jpg.html)
I noticed the valve gear hanger was a little loose. There are holes in the hanger and frame, that look like there was supposed to be a screw there. So I tapped in an 00-80 hex screw to hold the hanger in. Here's how small that screw is; on the left is an 00-90, or eyeglass screw, then an 00-80, a 1-72 and 2-56:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2569_zpsd8edc192.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2569_zpsd8edc192.jpg.html)
Here's the screw in place:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2573_zpsbaf5d3bf.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2573_zpsbaf5d3bf.jpg.html)
Gotta run. Will finish this a little later.
Regards,
Jonathan
To continue:
Here are the motor wires. Red on right, black on left:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2555_zpse8419fae.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2555_zpse8419fae.jpg.html)
I also took out the small board and cleaned it, looking for stray solder or anything else that might be shorting:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2556_zpsfd920924.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2556_zpsfd920924.jpg.html)
Will also clean out the main gear:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2560_zps7a00f21a.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2560_zps7a00f21a.jpg.html)
Tested the old motor. Couldn't find any problems with amp draw, but there is still that ozone smell, like old trains. I've run this test on other modern equipment and they don't have that smell:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2563_zps560acd67.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2563_zps560acd67.jpg.html)
Took a shot of the motor in the frame, so I get the orientation right:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2564_zps64fecc07.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2564_zps64fecc07.jpg.html)
Expecting the new motor to arrive today or tomorrow. I will post photos of how it all goes back together, as I re-assemble. Wish me luck.
Regards,
Jonathan
My Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 is doing the same thing. Only thing i can think of is the motor is about to go up. Thinking about making it a dummy and (but keeping all parts in case i can get a new motor for her). It gives off that smell you were refering to. I paid about $75 for it so it wasn't a total loss. I put some TLC into her when I got her home from the train show(she looked very beat up and over used) opened the top of the gear towers and there was almost no teeth left on the sprockets. I replaced them from a Big Boy i had(the motor died and when i tried fixing it i lost parts and all so i just parted it out) and it ran fine for a while. But alas shes finally dying on me. There is also a blue spark inside the motor.
That smell comes from electrical arcing and only electrical arcing. It's not always a disaster but if you have the smell and running problems you probably should replace the motor.
-- D
New motor arrived last night. This morning I tested it (no smell), and it ran great. Proceeded to install it. I took a few photos. This is the same set up for the 4-8-2 and 2-8-0 locomotive. Not sure of the 4-6-0 and 4-4-0 as I don't own one of those, yet.
Anyway:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2574_zpsf0d119ab.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2574_zpsf0d119ab.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2577_zpsf29ef2d7.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2577_zpsf29ef2d7.jpg.html)
The business end, after the motor assembly is, um, assembled:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2580_zps4c523a5b.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2580_zps4c523a5b.jpg.html)
Just put a couple small drops of lube on the axle bushings for the worm. Plus, a drop of lube went on the main gear. That's it.
Tested the loco, with one car behind it for a few minutes. But it worked that way, before:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2581_zpsd9205a2c.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2581_zpsd9205a2c.jpg.html)
The big test was running the Mountain, doubleheaded, under a full load. Which I did for about 30 minutes this morning. It ran very well, with no hesitations... finally! Of course she'll need at least another hour of running before I feel confident about all the tinkering.
I have around 20 Bachmann steamers on my roster. This is the only one that I couldn't noodle out right away.
I did shoot some video. That will take a while to process (download, fix in "movie maker", upload to youtube, yadda, yadda, humma humma). I'll post a link when it's done.
Thanks for letting me take up a bit of your time.
Regards,
Jonathan
Hopefully this link work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLAl_peFYfc
If you're interested, here's the Mountain running like it should. Sorry, the video is a bit dark. I didn't work the lighting before shooting.
The edits are still saving, may take a few minutes before the link works.
Regards,
Jonathan
jonathan:
From one of your posts above in this thread: "By the way, the universal drive belts are now back in stock. I ordered two, along with the motor, just to have a couple spares around." So I decided to get me some extra belts too (those "funky" belts are keys to the locos' operating.)
I looked on Bachmann's parts site and saw a drive belt for $3 for the 2-10-0. I email Bachmann's Parts dept and asked if they had any for the 4-8-2, and they said no. So I emailed the Parts dept and Customer Service dept. asking if the 2-10-0 toothed drive belt will work on the 4-8-2s - no responses yet.
Maybe I'm going the long way around the barn, but which belt did you order? Do you have a part number? Have you received them yet? And if so have you tested one to see if it fits? Thank you.
K487
K487,
The 2-10-0 drive belt is the same belt for the 2-8-0 and 4-8-2. I know because I have ordered that part and used it on both locomotives.
Regards,
Jonathan
Jonathon : The link worked very well , enjoyed the video and the audio was excellent . Good work !!! J2
jonathan:
Thank you for the reply.
K487
Now that I have both Mountains running well, it's time to finish modifying them. These represent the B&O Ta 4-8-2. The Bachmann USRA Heavy Mountain is within a few scale inches of matching the prototype (boiler and cylinders). The Vandy tender is just a bit too long, but visually the loco looks about right.
So, on to the little details. To complete the B&O look I needed to add split sand domes up front. The Spectrum loco has a metal boiler, but the appliances are plastic. It was easy to pop off the sand dome. The real work was filling in the hole with resin and epoxy; then sanding forever and a day to even things out. The replacement domes are Cal Scale brass parts:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2633_zps57c889a9.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2633_zps57c889a9.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2630_zps552e6350.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2630_zps552e6350.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2631_01_zps416cc4c4.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2631_01_zps416cc4c4.jpg.html)
The back of the steam dome has some sort of valve and drain pipe thingy (nomen.). Notice I also moved the pop valves to between the domes:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2637_zps6606431e.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2637_zps6606431e.jpg.html)
Will replace the class lights with some brass and sparkly jewels:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN2641_01_zps5e411e48.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Projects/DSCN2641_01_zps5e411e48.jpg.html)
Some paint and weathering and I'll have a great freight hauler.
The one part I haven't figured out is the air compressor. The prototype had a dual compressor system. Unfortunately, the model has metal running boards that would have to be moved in order to accommodate the modification. Think I'll let that one rest for a while.
Will post a pic of the finished product in the future.
Regards,
Jonathan
At the moment, I only have one of my several heavy 4-8-2s equipped with DCC.
I use Atlas code 83 track and No.6 switches.
The heavy 4-8-2 always slows down when going through the frogs of the No.6 switches. None of my other steam locos does this.
I've checked the wheels and they all appear to be in gauge.
I ran a hacksaw blade through the guard and check rails on the switches to ensure they're not too tight (BTW, a hacksaw blade is almost perfect for clearance on guard and check rails, I used a 3" piece of hacksaw blade when I hand built previous switches)
However, the 4-8-2 still hesitates when going through No6 switches either on the through route or the diverging route.
Jonathan, have you had the same experience and if so, how did you fix it?
Thanks in advance.
Roger
Until Jonathan get's back to you, I recall although if memory serves me correct, it involved the 0-6-0. I don't remember if any of his others had this problem.
Check and make sure the gear box is not catching the frog. I had to file down my 0-6-0 like Jonathan suggested.
Hope it is as easy as that for you.
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on August 09, 2013, 07:06:30 PM
Roger
Until Jonathan get's back to you, I recall although if memory serves me correct, it involved the 0-6-0. I don't remember if any of his others had this problem.
Check and make sure the gear box is not catching the frog. I had to file down my 0-6-0 like Jonathan suggested.
Hope it is as easy as that for you.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry, never though of that. :) BTW, this may be a duplicate posting so take it as double the thanks.
I took a guess knowing you are using code 83 and if my 0-6-0 rubbed on code 100 rail it made since your loco sits lower.
Hope that was it.
Jerry
My 4-8-2s don't hesitate through turnouts (#6). The pony trucks didn't want to cooperate through one turnout. A little weight on the front of the trucks cured 'em. However, I don't think I laid the switch very well. I have a feeling this is one loco that would be much happier through #8 turnouts. I don't use them for switching operations. They haul long trains roundy round my layout. Wish I could be more help.
Regards,
Jonathan
Quote from: jonathan on August 10, 2013, 08:26:28 PM
My 4-8-2s don't hesitate through turnouts (#6). The pony trucks didn't want to cooperate through one turnout. A little weight on the front of the trucks cured 'em. However, I don't think I laid the switch very well. I have a feeling this is one loco that would be much happier through #8 turnouts. I don't use them for switching operations. They haul long trains roundy round my layout. Wish I could be more help.
Regards,
Jonathan
Thanks anyway Jonathan.
The heavy 4-8-2 and its sisters that will be brought into use on through freight services as the railway construction progresses. They will still need to enter and leave the arrival/departure track in the main yard so as to have cars removed by the yard engine have cars and added to the train's consist. Therefore, the slowing down entering the yard trackage is a bit of a pain as the trains should, at that time, be moving no faster than walking pace. The slowing when entering or leaving the hidden staging tracks isn't such a big problem as it's not so visually worrisome as it is in the visible trackage. Besides, trains enter and leave staging at higher speeds than they do when out on the modelled portion of the railroad.
Perhaps I'll have better luck as I slowly add DCC to the other heavy 4-8-2s and find this one is an anomaly which I can have a look at.
Here is the prototype I was trying to copy:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5501s.jpg
Still have some details to fix. Been spreading out this project for some reason.
Some final shots with a bit of weathering. Still running OK:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2649_zps47b1b7a3.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2649_zps47b1b7a3.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2655_zpsd8621543.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2655_zpsd8621543.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2657_zps0b5e16c4.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2657_zps0b5e16c4.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2658_zpsbea75b5d.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2658_zpsbea75b5d.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2659_zpsf67b73d7.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2659_zpsf67b73d7.jpg.html)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2663_zps1008ce26.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/jsnvogel/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSCN2663_zps1008ce26.jpg.html)
Excellent, excellent work. Well done!
Thank ye, sir.
Regards,
Jonathan
Jonathan;
Thanks mucho for the heads up on the belts. I have a couple of light 4-8-2s and a couple of light 2-10-2s; I assume the belts will fit.
Thanks again.
Rich C.