I noticed an advertisement in the January issue of Model Railroader [p. 25] of a new 'crop' of Mantua locomotives that are coming in the Winter of 2011. This 'new' line of locomotives are equipped with MRC DCC & sound. Included among the offerings is the 0-6-0T tank switcher (393 Series).
We have owned Mantua 0-6-0T switchers in the past and have been less than satisfied with their running characteristics. Currently the Monks' Island Railway owns one of these locomotives - although it is not used...pending a trip to Yardbird Trains for refurbishing.
Do any of you know how well the new Mantua runs? Bachmann produces an excellent 0-6-0T in their Spectrum line...albeit a little larger than the Mantua unit (I would like the shorter Mantua version). How well does this Mantua compare with the Bachmann? I noticed TrainWorld/TrainLand selling the new version (w/DCC & sound) for $99.99. Is this unit worth procurring? I am hoping MR does a review on this locomotive in the near future.
Thanks for any assistance you can render.
Ray
If no answers here, consider the Trains.com, DCC Electrical forum for questions about other brands of locos.
Rich
Thanks for the reply RichG. Rather than purchase another locomotive of dubious quality, I thought I'd check with the forum. Until I find out otherwise, I will stick with my excellent Bachmann GE 45 Tonner.
Cheers,
Ray
I can report on others' experience with it: it is considered reliable enough for the On30 modelers to purchase them for kitbashing into that scale and gauge.
There are even kitbashing body parts sold specifically for it.
I don't think that would happen if it wasn't worth putting the elbow grease in to to convert.
on30gn15 - You bring up a good point about others taking the time/money to kitbash. My concern is that I purchased one of the Mantua "Classics" a couple of years ago - and put it on the shelf due to its poor running characteristics. As I mentioned earlier, I swear by Bachmann Spectrum units; but the Mantua is considerably shorter than Bachmann's 0-6-0T. Rather than send our Mantua 0-6-0T to Yardbird for a rebuild, it seemed to make more sense purchasing one of the new DCC/sound versions...which (hopefully) have improved running gear. My hope is that one of the vendors at a future train show will have one that I can actually see run.
Ray
Quote from: CNE Runner on January 03, 2012, 10:46:19 AM
on30gn15 - You bring up a good point about others taking the time/money to kitbash. My concern is that I purchased one of the Mantua "Classics" a couple of years ago - and put it on the shelf due to its poor running characteristics. As I mentioned earlier, I swear by Bachmann Spectrum units; but the Mantua is considerably shorter than Bachmann's 0-6-0T. Rather than send our Mantua 0-6-0T to Yardbird for a rebuild, it seemed to make more sense purchasing one of the new DCC/sound versions...which (hopefully) have improved running gear. My hope is that one of the vendors at a future train show will have one that I can actually see run.
Ray
I've become wary of the whole "Mantua Classics" line. I've stayed away from the locomotives because of problems I've had with the trucks and couplers of the old-time passenger cars. My reasoning is that if I've got to fiddle with a simple truck and talgo coupler just to be able to run the car without it derailing, Lord only knows what problems (beyond my courage and capabilities) I might have with a locomotive.
Now, if you can get your hands on a
real Mantua for rebuilding and superdetailing, that could be well worth your time, effort and expense.
JBJ
I have one of the 2-6-6-2 Mantua Classics made by Model Power. I have the tender version and am very happy with its running characteristics. It was very easy to add a Digitrax DCC decoder to the 9 pin socket in the tender. There is some detail on this engine but it would be greatly enhanced with a bit more detail added.
I am very satisfied with this engine, given the price it is a bargain.
Quote from: Pacific Northern on January 03, 2012, 03:56:11 PM
I am very satisfied with this engine, given the price it is a bargain.
PacNo-
But what will the cost be once you buy a slew of brass detailing parts?
-- D
i have one of the older mantua 0-6-0-t and have had nothing but trouble with it. it derails constantly, and i have had several people look at it including some professionals. it has everybody stumped.
I am glad you posted jward...I was beginning to think I had the only poor running Mantua 'Classic'. I don't experience derailing; but the darn thing sounds like a cement mixer running down the rails. I have tried running it in and cleaning/lubricating...all to no avail. Again, until I see the 'new' one actually run I will invest my $99 elsewhere. Another option would be to compare the length of the Mantua 0-6-0T verses the [excellent] Bachmann Spectrum 0-6-0T. I would want an 0-6-0T that is about the same length as the Mantua product or the Bachmann GE 45 Ton.
If anybody can measure the length of the Bachmann Spectrum 0-6-0T, and post its length, I would appreciate the effort.
Ray
ray,
have you looked into other small diesels? somebody, i believe keystone model works, makes kits for a ge 23 tonner, and an odd looking mack center cab as well. i have a friend who has models of both. they are metal bodied, which gives them alot of weight, and the drives he has in them are smooth and powerful.
i won't be buying any more mantua locomotives. i had bought my 0-6-0t for my lady, who loves steam locomotives. it is recent enough to have a dcc socket. but it seems almost like the center drivers are lower than the end drivers. it will derail even on a piece of straight flex track. the wheels are round and in guage, in short it should work fine but doesn't.
i recently got one of the pacific flyer sets on sale, with the 0-6-0 and slope back tender. i like the way this locomotive runs right out of the box, will have to add dcc and a front coupler.
Quote from: jward on January 04, 2012, 10:12:03 AM
i have one of the older mantua 0-6-0-t and have had nothing but trouble with it. it derails constantly, and i have had several people look at it including some professionals. it has everybody stumped.
I'm sorry to hear this but seriously wondering how old is "older"? I've never had a problem with "real" Mantua 0-6-0Ts and I've got a roundhouse full of 'em. Of course, they're not newfangled DCC machines, but I've never had a derailing problem or anything. Some of my
really old ones--the old white metal ones--run smoothly and quietly and never give a problem. I don't think I could kill one of those with a sledgehammer.
Quote from: Johnson Bar Jeff on January 05, 2012, 10:22:59 AM
I'm sorry to hear this but seriously wondering how old is "older"? I've never had a problem with "real" Mantua 0-6-0Ts and I've got a roundhouse full of 'em. Of course, they're not newfangled DCC machines, but I've never had a derailing problem or anything. Some of my really old ones--the old white metal ones--run smoothly and quietly and never give a problem. I don't think I could kill one of those with a sledgehammer.
mine is new enough to have been sold under the model power name, and have a dcc plug. i know the reputation of the older mantua steamers from the 1950s and 1960s, and mistakenly assumed this one would be of similar quality. my grandfather had several mantua/tyco steamers with die cast boilers, and they always ran well. he had a 4-6-2 which would outpull many diesels. it was a very durable locomotive.
i think that's the biggest downfall of to-days locomotives. they run better than they ever have for the most part, but instead of being built like tanks, they are finely detailed with fragile plastic parts. i never broke the metal handrails on an athearn diesel, but most diesels now have plastic handrails. you also didn't have problems with gears splitting on the older locomotives, but now certain makes are notorious for split axle gears.
Quote from: jward on January 05, 2012, 12:52:09 PM
... but most diesels now have plastic handrails. you also didn't have problems with gears splitting on the older locomotives,
Yeah, last couple weeks I've been missing the diesels that came in the sky blue boxes - they were built with kind of the same philosophy as the T-34 - if it wasn't required it wasn't there; and what was there was built like a blacksmith forged it, it would last till the second coming.
Quote from: jward on January 05, 2012, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Johnson Bar Jeff on January 05, 2012, 10:22:59 AM
I'm sorry to hear this but seriously wondering how old is "older"? I've never had a problem with "real" Mantua 0-6-0Ts and I've got a roundhouse full of 'em. Of course, they're not newfangled DCC machines, but I've never had a derailing problem or anything. Some of my really old ones--the old white metal ones--run smoothly and quietly and never give a problem. I don't think I could kill one of those with a sledgehammer.
mine is new enough to have been sold under the model power name, and have a dcc plug. i know the reputation of the older mantua steamers from the 1950s and 1960s, and mistakenly assumed this one would be of similar quality. my grandfather had several mantua/tyco steamers with die cast boilers, and they always ran well. he had a 4-6-2 which would outpull many diesels. it was a very durable locomotive.
i think that's the biggest downfall of to-days locomotives. they run better than they ever have for the most part, but instead of being built like tanks, they are finely detailed with fragile plastic parts. i never broke the metal handrails on an athearn diesel, but most diesels now have plastic handrails. you also didn't have problems with gears splitting on the older locomotives, but now certain makes are notorious for split axle gears.
Quote from: on30gn15 on January 05, 2012, 03:51:03 PM
Quote from: jward on January 05, 2012, 12:52:09 PM
... but most diesels now have plastic handrails. you also didn't have problems with gears splitting on the older locomotives,
Yeah, last couple weeks I've been missing the diesels that came in the sky blue boxes - they were built with kind of the same philosophy as the T-34 - if it wasn't required it wasn't there; and what was there was built like a blacksmith forged it, it would last till the second coming.
Thank you both for responding/commenting.
I guess this kind of speaks to the paradox of my model railroading these days. I certainly take off my hat to the wonderful detail of the locomotives I've acquired within, say, the past three years, but, on the other hand, they seem so delicate and fragile that I'm scared to death of damaging them. Engines that I've had since childhood--or 1960s engines that I've also acquired in the past five years or so--are way short on detail compared to my 21st-century steam locomotives (now, there's a funny phrase for you!) but they're pretty darn sturdy.
I wouldn't turn back the clock, though. Today's steam locomotives are undeniably beautiful--and it's a beauty that used to be available only in very expensive brass. Now it's available at a resonably affordable price.
Jeff - I had the same problem (high center driver) on the first Mantua 0-6-0T I purchased...'took it back for a refund. This one seems to track OK; but is very noisy. I miss the old Mantua products.
Do you know what the problem is? Manufacturers, like Bachmann, produce such outstanding products that we have little patience with poorly running (or looking) units. Mr. Bach Man: You have spoiled us...and I love it!
Ray
PS: Jeff, I will look into those Keystone(?) kits...one never knows.
PF - I've been in the hobby for over 50 years and still remember the [not so] good old days. You forgot Hi-F drive in the Athearn 'lumps'. I was referring, specifically, to the older generation of Mantua 0-6-0T locomotive. Thankfully, I have a couple of these units ('picked up for virtually nothing @ train shows) and find they run quite well for my uses...I am now about to change my uses from DC to DCC. The older generation Mantua products are not worth (in my opinion) the expenditure/effort to convert to DCC - hence my interest in a Mantua 0-6-0T that already had DCC and sound installed.
It was because I have become accustomed to the excellent products, we now enjoy, that I was so disappointed in the running characteristics of the newer Mantua/Life-Like 0-6-0T (DCC capable; but DC out of the box). Additionally, I was interested in garnering anyones experience with the newest generation of Mantua 0-6-0Ts as advertised in MR.
My comments were, in no way, a vindication of the hobby ala pre-1960...that was then - this is now.
Ray
Keep it up guy's you are making me feel young again. ;D ::)
Jerry 8)
Quote from: florynow on January 07, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Yes, yes, yes, the "rubber band drive" diesels. Over 250 scale MPH!!!!!!! I had two of those in 1962 and I felt rich beyond compare. How could I forget????!!!!!! Man. I am slipping.
PF
That's how I felt back then reenacting the Great Locomotive chase with a Mantua/Tyco "General" and a Revell 0-6-0T. ;D
I just purchased the brand new run of the Mantua 0-6-0t "Yard Goat" from my LHS fro 59.99. It is DCC ready with a 9 pin socket and has a completely revised electrical pickup system. Gone are the ugly springs between the first two drivers and it now has all wheel pickup. I had an older version as well and It was a piece of garbage, But I have to say that I am VERY pleased with giving the new version a try. No derailments forward or backward and running characteristics are great. It IS worm gear driven as oppsed to a reduction gear so it will be a little faster out of the hole for a switcher, but as it is, it's a great little locomotive and dare I say? Will give the Spectrum 0-6-0t a run for its money ANY day.
dave
that is exactly the locomotive i bought and can't keep on the track no matter whose layout i run it on. perhaps they have quality control issues over at mantua? for what i paid for my mantua, i bought a roundhouse 2-8-0 and the difference in quality is night and day. intread of a locomotive which derails on straight flex track even thought all wheels are in guage, i have a powerhouse which will pull about 11 cars up a 4% grade on 18r curves, and stay on the track while doing it.
that's all i ask from a locomotive. that it stay on the track and oull decently well.
JWard Hear Hear ;D
I guess I should elaborate on my last post. I have four of the new Roundhouse old time connies and they are superb runners and will pull a ton. The traction tires are a big help. I had hoped that Bachmann would make the Ma & Pa little connies but after looking at a photo recently of an O guage #26 the resemblence seems so close to the little Roundhouse loco that I doubt if they will. It apears to me that Bachmann chooses not to compete directly with other manufacturer's on specific locos which seems a wise business policy. So how about making M&P #41 thru #43 Mr B? You already have the 4-6-0's & 4-4-0's, how's about making us a complete set
Quote from: jward on February 05, 2012, 09:33:07 AM
dave
that is exactly the locomotive i bought and can't keep on the track no matter whose layout i run it on. perhaps they have quality control issues over at mantua? for what i paid for my mantua, i bought a roundhouse 2-8-0 and the difference in quality is night and day. intread of a locomotive which derails on straight flex track even thought all wheels are in guage, i have a powerhouse which will pull about 11 cars up a 4% grade on 18r curves, and stay on the track while doing it.
that's all i ask from a locomotive. that it stay on the track and oull decently well.
I have the RH, 4-4-0, 2-6-0 and 2-8-0. All exactly the same length. They look a little odd when all together.
At least the 2-8-0 would seem to be longer but there are different sizes of standard gauge locos with the same amount of drivers.
Rich