Just bought an EM1 today and its acting funny, I need to put it up to 80-100% throttle before it will move and then it takes off like a rocket. in reverse the front headlight flashes like a strobe. I'm running it on DC.
Is that correct behavior or is something wrong?
Remove the decoder first and replace with jumpers and then it should operate normally, if not then you have a problem.
is there supposed to be jumper plugs or do i have to hardwire it? if so you know what colors are motor leads, headlight,reverse light, etc
All I know is I put the sound in my EM-1 and it requires 75-80% throttle to move and that is normal. However to figure out if you have an issue if you don't have the sound, you can remove the decoder and install jumpers, there may not be any included but if the locomotive has an 8 pin socket there should be some. I have not tried the loco with just DCC without sound on a DC layout.
ACY answer about using jumpers is not applicable to the EM-1. This locomotive does not have an 8-pin NMRA DCC socket.
BaltoOhioRRfan,
Need some more info
Did you install a sound module?
What DC power pack are you using? If your power pack provides a Pulse power switch, set to the Off position. A Pulse power pack will result in erratic and unreliable operation.
If light flashing in a repeating pattern, count the number of times the light flash before the pattern is repeated and let us know.
The light just flickers while the engine is in reverse, I can't get her to run at a slow speed without stalling.
I use an MRC 200 Tech 4. I'm thinking about taking out the DCC board and hard wiring everything or swapping it out for a board with an 8 pin plug. anyone know what the wire color code is? (IE is red for motor positive, headlight positive, etc)
You cannot depend on the wire insulation color to be correct for the wire use for the internal locomotive wiring remaining after you remove the PCB-decoder. You should label each wire's use as you remove it from the circuit board.
The EM-1 is a power hog. It does take most of a DC throttle to get it moving. That is normal.
Also, as stated, there is no spot for jumpers. You would have to remove the whole PCB and hardwire the pickups. There is a small board in the locomotive that indicates which wires are headlight, motor, pick up and so on. Makes it easier to hardwire to the locomotive/tender plugs. Color coding is not helpful, a lot of the wires are black. The tender PCB is marked well, if you have a magnifying glass.
I have run my EM-1s in DC with sound. It takes nearly all 14Volts, but it still runs nicely, just not real quick.
Honestly, the locomotive was designed to run well on DCC which is does very, very well. Creeps like crazy, pulls well, just needs the correct hooter whistle. Yeah, I'm still a touch miffed about the whistle, but still a great loco. I've been running them for a few years now with no problems so far (knock on wood).
Regards,
Jonathan
Hooter whistle...
D
SGT C.
If you're going to run big sound equiped locos like the EM-1 on DC, I suggest you get a power pack rated for at least 3 amps. Something like the MRC 9500, or Bridgewerks Mini-Magnum 3S. Here's a quick and dirty expanation of why:
DCC is a constant voltage, variable current system. That's why DCC systems put a more or less constant 12V on the track. And the focus in reviews is on the current load capacity of DCC power supplies and boosters, not their voltage output.
DC operation is more of a constant current, variable voltage system. Which is why DC loco reviews tend to focus on how little current they pull under load, and what speed you get at a particular voltage.
DCC and sound equiped locos are current hogs, especially large heavy locos that need more current just to move the loco than a lighter loco, and generally should be operated with power supplies having a current rating higher than most entry level systems.
With smaller DC power packs, raising the track voltage by cranking the throttle almost full is incidental to what's going on. There are major DC voltage drops getting through the decoder. When voltage drops, current goes up, until somewhere around 12VDC (give or take a volt) there's enough current generated for things to start working. Which is why DCC systems generally put out somewhere around a constant 12V to the track.
A side effect of this is to pull enough current from a smaller DC, under 3 amp, power pack to push it near it's upper limit. This causes heating, and can lead to early failure of the power pack that might not be covered by the manufacturers warranty.
Len
Should i just replace the DCC board with a PCB bored with an 8 pin plug incase i go to DCC Later on? I do believe i have one from a 4-6-0.
I dont ever plan on putting sound in the engine.
Only you can decide whether or not to modify your loco.
The basic questions are, do you plan on operating it with DCC at some point in the future? And are you comfortable doing this kind of modification?
If yes to being comfortable doing this kind of work, and future DCC operation is possible, then you probably want to use a PCB with an 8-pin dummy plug. If not, you're probably better off hardwiring the connections directly.
Whatever anyone else says they might do, you're the one who has to decide.
Len
It may see DCC in the future, and at this point i've got some skills at wiring (replaced a PCB board in a Shark Nose, and did other misc wiring work in other engines and board switches)
I just want to know if a PCB board from a 4-8-2 or 4-6-0 would work in an EM1. I cant see why not but electronics can be very finiikey
If there's a way to mount a different board, and you know which connections, e.g., motor outputs, track power inputs, lights, etc., are which, then it should work if everything's connected correctly. And a properly wired dummy plug is installed.
Len
thanks for the help guys, this weekend i'm going to attempt the swap of boards with a 4-8-2 one. i'm gonna put tape with different colors on the wires to help make it easier to put the old board back in just incase the attempt fails.
You might want to try a different transformer before removing the electronics...
Problem with that yardmaster is I'd like to put "Helpers" on the rear of the train to replicate coal drags going over Sand Patch, which useally 2 helpers were on the end, Big Sixes or small articulateds. and with the EM1 being a power hog the helper would be trying to do 80 SMPH while the EM1 is doing 30 SMPH.
Side note, the engine is going into "surgery" today, will post the results.
Regardless putting helpers on the tail of a 150 car coal drag is generally a bad idea especially if you are running standard DC and not DCC where you can speed match everything as needed. A fairly simple solution would be to upgrade to a basic DCC system like the EZ Command which can be found for $50 or less, you can get basic DCC decoders for $15 each or less. So for a $75 investment your problem is solved.
it wouldn't be a 150 car coal drag, i only have about 75. I was going to do a 40 car coal drag and hope to have an illusion effect with scenery as there wont be a real grade. and I do infact want to go DCC eventually thats why i'm installing a DCC ready board.....once i can get the dang tender open....all my screw drivers wont fit in the holes.
Unless your cars have extra weight added and metal wheels and couplers, the helper engines are still a bad idea and would likely cause a derailment.
I still think going DCC now is the best and easiest way to run your helper engines.
With 130 locomotives, DCC is NOT an option right now as all but 3(4 including the EM1) are DC. Only engines i have with DCC are my 45 Ton Switcher and Sharknose AB set and they start up with half the volts the EM1 takes. Once my layout is built(right now i just put a loop on the floor as space in the basement was limited because of all the crap down there, slowly being cleaned out) I plan on buying DCC Decoders for my engines a few at a time. when I go to DCC I'll probably use the Bachmann Dynamis system or digitrax haven't made up my mind yet.
Then I suggest you forego the helper engines until you convert your layout and the helper engines to DCC.
Does all your rolling stock have extra weight and metal couplers and wheels?
I use Mark II EZ Mates mostly, but will probably start swaping out the Kadees since the EZ mates are almost just as much. Since my longest train will be 30-40 cars didn't see the need for the metal ones. the hoppers i have which would be the main consist for the EM1 have metal wheels,
as for weights, unknown. Thats one of the things I want to do this year is weigh all my rolling stock and get em to NMRA specs. Once i can get my brain to remember, i'm going to get a postal scale when I go to Walmart.
I also may tack on some diesels on the front end and forgo the rear helpers. as I said it would mostly be for looks since i don't think the EM1 would need help with 40 hoppers plus caboose.
On a grade of roughly 2-3%, the EM-1 can't pull 40 cars. If your cars have plastic couplers or are not heavier than the NMRA recommended weight, you will have derailments with helpers on the end; I found this out from personal experience.
BOF, you don't need to go postal at Walmart for a scale. I have a nice digital kitchen scale I bought at Ocean State Job lot for less than $10 that works great to weigh cars and locos.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 17, 2015, 06:32:54 PM
BOF, you don't need to go postal at Walmart for a scale. I have a nice digital kitchen scale I bought at Ocean State Job lot for less than $10 that works great to weigh cars and locos.
Very very funny. The one i was looking at is a digital kitchen scale for about $15. i call those postal scales since they arent ment for very much weight.
ACY. There will be no grades on the layout, I hope to give the illusion with the helpers and scenery.
I am glad you appreciated my sense of humor :D
If you go through enough old Model Railroader magazines, and visit a few clubs that started out DC, you'll find there are a few tricks that help when using a rear "helper" on a DC layout.
1. Use knuckle couplers. On the helper's front coupler, be sure to remove the knuckle spring and glue the knuckle in the open position. File the little "hook" of the inside of the knuckle to prevent hang ups. This will eliminate the need for any switching maneuvers when the helper drops off at the top of the hill.
2. Set up the "helper district" with at least 3 electrical blocks. The blocks should be sized so the lead power and rear helper are never in adjacent blocks on the shortest train requiring a helper. This lets the helper be operated from it's own throttle, allowing it's speed to be matched to the train to prevent "over run" and derailments. With practice, the illusion the helper is doing something can be created without the helper actually putting any slack in the train. It also allows the helper's direction to be reversed, for return to the bottom of the hill, without affecting the rest of the train.
3. Make sure there is a siding, set up as a seperate electrical block, at the bottom of the hill to park the helper in when not in use. Adding a small shack for the helper crew is a nice touch.
As for car weights, those suggested in NMRA RP 20.1 (1oz+1/2oz per inch of car length) are a good place to start. In fact, many clubs require cars to be weighted to this RP to operate on their layouts. Some folks that don't operate at clubs feel, with modern trucks and metal wheels, this is too heavy and use 75% of the NMRA recommended weight. That's your call, the key is to be consistent on how you weight your cars.
Len
Finally got the tender open...
Now the board isn't labled in a way a normal person would understand...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10922416_907846775915458_8121381431023327527_n.jpg?oh=f96686eb34e9a959802bc350c4a9fe08&oe=55306880&__gda__=1432416694_6a3d23dbe4be7c470d61f908300172f3)
I take it BL means Backup Light, does the V+ mean thats where the positive is supposed to go and the BL is the negetive?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/150193_907846765915459_3111145010581701763_n.jpg?oh=b0a1ab13f73e0416dac5cc54fc517503&oe=552F14F9&__gda__=1428476638_a48636dc229001e3d2dd7ceeb4ca80c0)
Same here, i take it HL means headlight, and does the V+ mean thats where the HL Positive goes and the negetive is the HL?
Board i'm replacing this with has everything labled a little more understandable, like LED1 + and LED1 - etc.
V+ is positive voltage, for whatever is connected to it.
The motor is slightly different, since it's bidirectional. When the loco is moving forward, M+ is positive, M- is negative. This flips when the loco is in reverse.
Len
thanks....now for the other board, thought i had it figured out, i think i'm wrong
are the yellow and brown wires the motor mounts? if so is the yellow the motor positive?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10930179_834442006579257_5821843126531530766_n.jpg?oh=5ba2fdf63b2cfda188fed739e8bc3738&oe=556914B1&__gda__=1428392969_3c655d4a42b61b86ff84502ea8076f72)
The brown wire appears to be connected to M+, whether that's correct or not I can't tell from the picture. The simplest way to find out is take the motor leads loose, then connect them to a 1.5V battery and see which way the wheels want to go. Whichever lead is on the battery + end when it goes forward should go to the M+ connection on the board.
Len
so the LED leads are the orange and red wires for sure?
SUCCESS!! well mostly, got the new board in place and tested it, I gotta turn the motor leads around but she runs heck of a lot better on DC now. I'm very very very very very happy now haha.
Thanks for all the help guys!
Shes up and running, headlight got dimmer but it seems at a more prototypical brightness now so thats a unexpected plus.
Congratulations. ;D
Len