I am having a problem with the switches. As the loco goes across the switch in the non straight position it kicks the rail enough to derail the following car. It does this on all the E-Z switches I have installed. In the straight on position all okay. Any ideas?
Bruce
It sounds like it could be the car or locomotive. Have you tried placing a different car behind the loco. Also it would help to know what locomotive and car it is.
Bruce,
I am not sure I totally understand your problem other than you are having derailments going thru the divergent, curved portion of a turnout. If this happens on all the turnouts, then check the gauge of your wheelsets. If only on one turnout, check the gauge of the rail on that particular turnout.
One trick I learned to eliminate annoying derailments on turnouts is to get some 0.010 strip styrene from Evergreen. Cut a piece to fit against the guard rail on the divergent, curved portion of the turnout. This will force the wheel flange to stay toward the "outside" rail, thus the wheel on the other side will not pick on the frog.
If this is confusing, send me an email to ebtbob@verizon.net and I will take some pix and send them along to you in a return email.
Bob Rule, Jr.
Hatboro, Pa.
In God We Trust
carefully watch where the wheels start to climb the rail. this is where the problem is, and it may not be where the wheels actually go off the track. they can ride the top of the rails for some distance before they finally hop over.
does your train derail in only one direction while using the curved route? or both directions? does the derailment occur at thr frog? or at the points?
finally, what size of locomotive are you using, and what size of switch?
The derailment happens with any car behind any of the two locos that I have. They are the complete units you buy at the local hobby store. This happen with both E-Z, black and grey,. When the loco goes past the switch it causes the switched rail to move ever so slightly that the following car goes straight rather than follow the curve. These are HO units. Does the switch need to have a straight track following? As I have a curve going in the oppisite direction right after the switch.
Bruce
I think Bob Rule's suggestions are a good beginning: check the gauge of the wheels and the point rails with an NMRA gauge. Having said that, I can attest to your frustration. I recently built a switching puzzle layout for our local youth group home. In appreciation for this fine forum, I decided to use Bachmann EZ-track units. The puzzle utilizes only two turnouts - and I had trouble with both of them. Upon checking each with an NMRA gauge and track inspection car (car made with a clear body); I found: one turnout that was out of gauge and the other had loose rivets...allowing the rails to spread. Hmmm, two for two - what does that tell you?
Good luck (BTW: you just might want to try Peco track in the future),
Ray
For what it's worth, I have the same problem. I just added two EZ track turnouts to my HO layout and in both cases, I'm losing both locomotives and rolling stock over both turnouts, sometimes in both directions. Either I get a simple derailment or worse, I find the lead truck of the loco or the lead truck of the car trying to take the turn when the switch is open for the straightaway. I'll try all the solutions suggested here but my frustration leads me to wonder -- since these are brand-new turnouts and they ain't cheap, why should I have to repair them right out of the package and where the heck is the quality Bachmann used to be known for? And since Bachmann is supposed to stand behind its products, maybe I should send 'em back to corporate HQ and ask for two that work. Those are questions for you, Mr. Bachmann.
I have to agree with you siemer, I have eight and none of them work properly. They all cause derailment in the turn position. Bachman should be checking on their quality and replacing all the defective ones.
Bruce
I have to agree with siener. I have two layouts, one with 15 switches and a smaller one with 6 switches(6, only because I couldn't find a 7th switch in my "collection" of switches that worked). I have lost count of the number that I have either given up on and tossed in my junk box or sent back to Bachmann. Something, I only do with the more expensive switches because Bachmann only covers the shipping one way, so it is cheaper to just replace the lower end switches.
Bachmann's quality control has REALLY gone to you know where. I have had to replace three locomotives, new out of the box, this year alone. So, I have pretty much quit buying Bachmann, other than rolling stock. I would like one of the new 2-6-6-2 locos(when and if the sound model becomes available), but I'm so concerned about the quality control that I will probably pass on it.
Some one needs to get the message to Bachmann's top management, that they need to do something about their quality control.
I only have 2 ns ez-track switches, but they both worked perfectly fine. My only ez-track came from 2 digital commander sets that I acquired for the EZ-commands mostly. I got the sets for $140 combined with s&h...not too bad and all 4 locos run good, both ez commands work, and I had no problems with the track/rolling stock.
here are acouple of tricks i used in the past with prefab switches (i now lay my own)......
since the wheels are picking the points, you need to "hide' them. you can carefully bend the rail inward just before the point, so that the offset in the rail deflects the wheels away from the point. this is best done with needle nose pliers, and you must be very careful not to make the guage too narrow where you bent the rail. you only need enough offset to hide the point.
another trick is to file the blunt end of the point to a very sharp point. line the switch for the straight route, block the gap between the point and stock rail with something thin like a popsocle stick (if it's thin enough) and use a jewelers file to sharpen the point. you will want to tilt the file slightly toward the stock rail as you file, the top of the point should have a slight bevel when you are done.
it also sounds like your switch has loose points. i am not sure how the points are attatched to the throwbar or how they are hinged, but on older switches with rivits, you could use a punch or nail set and a hammer to lightly tighten the rivets.....
hope these ideas can help.
I have 2 out of six standard NS EZ track switches that have problems with derailments caused by points catching the wheels. I also have a 90 degree crossing that is rough and will cause derailments at higher speeds. I have old Atlas track without the roadbed. I have 6 Atlas switches and 2 crossings that have never caused problems. Problem with the Atlas standard snap track is that it doesn't stay together very good if you don't nail it down with track pins. I got the EZ track with an ON30 train set and liked the covenience of being able to change the layout and set it up on carpet since it stays together without track pins. I got some 22 inch and 26 inch curves for long passenger cars and all was well until I added switches and crossings. I am not happy with the design or quality of the EZ track switches and crossings. I don't think the Atlas tru track will connect with EZ track. Don't think the atlas switches will work on the EZ track roadbed either since the switch machines are totally different.
Right on Jeffery.
I bent the switch rail very little to keep tight to the outer when going into the curve and all works well. Have done this to the six I am using and all okay. Isn't great to have to rework the stuff you buy so it'll do what it is supposed to do !!!!!!!
Bruce
Thanks to all the input!!!!
that little bend in the rail was a trick my grandfather showed me about 35 years ago. he even showed me how even the real railroads do this. i am glad it did the trick for you.
This discussion has got me thinking. Is it possible that the turnouts are being affected by expansion or shrinkage of the plastic ties and base after manufacture? I wonder what temperatures they are exposed to on their long ocean voyage. I am glad to hear that there is an easy fix.
Jim
Ok guys, based on what Bruce said in his second post in this thread, it appears that the passing of the engine is causing the point rails to move away from the stock rail, and back toward its normal position. What bothers me is the fact that by those point rails moving so that the car/s following the engine go straight, that means those point rails have to move quite a bit. That is a serious problem with the design of the turnout.
All the bending of rail, filing of the point of the frog, or my suggestion of using the styrene to build up the guard rails probably will not help much if at all.
Bruce, if these turnouts are manual, with no electric motor to throw the points, you may be forced to get some Caboose Industries hand throws so that once the points are thrown, they cannot move.
Bob
i think it's probably more of a quality control issue. over the years, companies have consistantly found ways to make switches cheaper. especially on the lower end of the market, corners are routinely cut which adversely affect operation.
consider switchpoints. on older switches they were made from sections of rail ground down to a point. that's the way the real ones are, and the way you'd build them yourself. somewhere along the way, stamped metal points became common. usually these aren't filed to a point, leading to derailments such as this thread is about. another problem area is the other end of the points, where they pivot. points made out of rail have the same cross section as the rail they lead into. stamped ones don't, and are often misaligned with the actual closure rail. knocking the blunt ends off the closure rail with a file is another quick remedy.
i never install a piece of rail or track without first knocking the corners off the ends with a file.
bob,
those points don't have to move as much as you'd think. if a wheel flange catches the blunt end of a point, it can and often does ride the top of the rail instead of the inside edge. when it does, it is just a matter of time before it comes back down. on a switch, the rail is curved where the wheel wants to go straight. on top of the rail there is nothing to guide the flange, so it derails.
by filing a sharp point, you provide a bevelled edge for the wheel flange to follow, and it stays where it should be. the same with putting the kink in the rail just before the switchpoint, you keep the wheel flange away from the point end.
the design flaw, such that it is, isn't in the movement of the points as much as in them not being as sharp as they should be.
Given the growing consensus here about Bachmann quality assurance, shouldn't Mr. Bach Man be chiming in with some comments relating to the company's viewpoint, reaction or remedy? Just a thought.
Jeff - You made the suggestion: "I never install a piece of rail or track without first knocking the corners off the ends with a file." This is something I have yet to do - but it makes a lot of sense. All it would take is a slight bend in the rail to expose the corner on the end of a piece of track (turnout, straight or otherwise). A few seconds with a file could eliminate this potential problem; not to mention it is much easier to do with the track/turnout in your hand - rather than at some future date when it is weathered, glued down, and ballasted.
See? You can teach an old dog new tricks! Thanks.
Ray