I have several long curves coming up in the Virginia Tidewater and Piedmont construction. I've alsways thought/been told/learned (take your choice) that the flexible rail should be on the outside of the curve. Yesterday a friend who is excellent with track told me that I could greatly decrease the big gap caused by track curvature by alternating the location of the flexible rail before soldering the sections together.
Comments on that?
Gene
My flex track gets laid with the sliding rail on the inside of the curve. Atlas seems to recommend it being installed that way as well.
http://www.atlasrr.com/superflex.htm (http://www.atlasrr.com/superflex.htm)
Quote from Atlas....
"Super-Flex Track has one stationary rail and one that slides, allowing it to bend easily. When bending the Flex Track into the desired shape, you must keep in mind that the sliding rail must always be on the inside of the curve (closest to the center of your layout plan)."
Sid
Sounds like Atlas has the right idea for the general rule. I never thought of it that way, but it does make a lot of sense for the slider to be on the inside.
Rich
My slider rail has also been on the inside.
It's been a long time since I played bridge, but let me review the bidding.
I was told that for long curves - like a helix, or a 3200 (180 degree), I should solder the sections together. I've heard that before.
But,
How about alternating the flexible ties back and forth by sections?
Gene
I have been studying (call that "playing with") a piece of flex track for several months. Since both rails are flexible, it doesn't make sense to me why the sliding rail needs to be on the inside, but I usually follow the manufacturer's directions. They should know.
Reminds me of a joke: 1st carpenter: Why are you throwing some of those nails away? 2nd Carp: The heads are on the wrong end. 1st Carp: You dummy, those are for the other side of the house >>>>>>>
Anyway, how about some specific instructions do s and don'ts. I have the special saw, and the special nippers, a little miter box and a bunch of track nails.......and a bunch of stupid carpenter jokes.
Bo
Bo;
The more I think of it, the more sense it makes, because the outer rail is fixed; therefore the more "stable" in terms of final setting. It is easier to cut four inches of rail, than to try to stretch 1/4". I know this...I am an electrician, and the same rule applies here! Much better to toss 3 feet of #4/0 copper into the scrap heap and have nice neat quality splice/termination work left when you are done, than to try to stretch 2 inches.
I recall one job I was running when I first had become a project foreman. There were two feeders in 4-inch conduit, one was 125 feet long, the other 160 feet long. I planned out those runs to the nines. had my crew stretch the runs (four each couduit rn) out and measure them in conjunction to running a #12 "cheater" up the conduit each for an accurate measurement. I still allowed for four feet each end of the run- BTW, this was 600MCM copper! Halfway through the pull, the boss-the big kahuna!_ walked in. Don't you think my knees weren't knocking until those runs were pulled. He looked at the four foot excess, smiled and walked out. One of my very proud (and VERY relieved) moments.
I will always plan some waste...
Rich
I was an electrician in KC for some years, and yes, I always added a few extra feet.
The stability is a good point, I can't think of any other reason, other than just trust Atlas' recommendation.
Something else I learned over the years of working with sheets of balsa (or anything for that matter) Always cut the longest needed first, the little scraps will be used for other pieces. I remember once when my brother (a carpenter) was building a house. By the time the major framework was done, there was a huge pile of scraps. All those scraps got used up for partition blocks and fillers What was left barely filled a wheelbarrow.
(Irate carpenter): I cut this board twice, and it's still too short >>>>
Bo
As my father-in-law used to say, "Measure twice; cut once."
Gene
No, no, Gene ... I distincly remember that saying (you have it backwards, I'm sure): It should be: 'measure once, cut twice'. I've proven the truth of that many,many times in my life ;D
lanny nicolet
Dear Lanny,
No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!
Have fun!
the Bach-man
I understand that you have to remove a tie or two to lay the flex. Do you then just lay the loose ties under the rail, or just leave them out? If you are using ballast, it probably doesn't matter. If not, then the spacing might be weird. I also assume you install the usual rail joiners then solder, right?
I've never seen them, but I think you can buy double tie pieces for fillers.
Bo
Quote from: Bojangle on June 28, 2007, 01:42:59 AM
I understand that you have to remove a tie or two to lay the flex. Do you then just lay the loose ties under the rail, or just leave them out? If you are using ballast, it probably doesn't matter. If not, then the spacing might be weird. I also assume you install the usual rail joiners then solder, right?
I've never seen them, but I think you can buy double tie pieces for fillers.
Bo
A common school of thought regarding flex tracklaying --- Connect by rail joiner and solder at the joiner most, if not all, of the flex track pieces needed for the entire curve. As you lay the curve remove any interfering ties. For appearance, lay under the track any needed ties removed before adding the ballast. A similiar method click http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=289 (http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=289)
When using DCC on a medium to large layout, I suggest power feeds to each piece of track and not soldering at the rail joiners.
Bo, I slip cut off ties under the rails to replace ones removed for curves, but I file off the faceplate first. I find it very hard to get the rail back inside the holders.
I may not be reading correctly, but I think my basic question still hasn't been answered. That question is:
Has anybody tried alternating free and fixed track sides while laying a long curve using the solder technique? That is the first section has the fixed side to the outside and the next section has it to the inside and alternating like that for the duration of the curve.
Hunt - thanks for the article.
Gene
Gene;
Sounds to me like you would be breaking SOP and ultimately messing yourself up somewqay or another. My thought? Stick with a winner.
Rich
Dear Hunt,
Thank you for another great link. I try to save these aritlces, but missed that one!
Best Wishes,
Jack
Gene,
A few thoughts:
My experiance with Atlas code 83 flex has been that both rails slide with about the same ease. The only differance being the side with the tie gaps is going to be the one that "slides". Atlas flex track has tie sections with all gaps on one side with ony the gaps between the long "sections" of tie being on both sides.
The only differance I can see between flexing it one way or the other is whether the ties close up or spread out. Closing up may be better for a Class one line, spreading out better for a branch line.
I use Altlas's flex track ends in locations with insulated rail joiners and I always position them directly across from each other. On curves I do as you mentioned, shave off the spikes/tie plates and solder the railjoint.
Sheldon
Sheldon:
Now I understand why the sliding rail goes on the inside curve, to let the ties close up rather than spread out. I noticed also that the fixed rail has a tie gap every 9 inches, a standard length of snap track. (I'm looking at a piece of code 100). Very interesting.
Bo
Gene,
After curving the track,the outside rail will always be short whichever side you put the flexible and the inner rail will need cutting to match. All switching will do is give you different appearance of ties between sections.
Eric UK
It follows that the outside rail has to be shorter. Apparently it has something to do with how much shorter.
Gene
QuoteAfter curving the track,the outside rail will always be short whichever side you put the flexible and the inner rail will need cutting to match.
I don't agree. You don't want the ends to match. It is far more desireable, for a number of reasons, to have the rail joints staggered. This is what I do:
(http://i17.tinypic.com/4lz5cau.jpg)
Afterwards I, of course, replace the appropriate number of absent ties and modify some to accommodate the rail joiners.
Craig,
So what you are doing is removing ties on either end and leaving some in the middle - is that correct?
Gene
Gene, yes that's correct. I remove a few ties and slide the rails into the ties of the adjoining track section, then solder them up and replace the missing ties. If necessary, I deliberately make the joints further apart than they naturally occur so there is always plenty of solid rail opposing each joint. In that case I choose a specific number of ties to remove from each section of track and insert the rails into a segment of ties as I did in the photo. The track in the photo was one of four that I bench-soldered and installed as a single section. The joints are strong, the rails do not bind or kink, and the rails stay in gauge.
You had asked if anyone soldered fixed rails to floating rails. In the past I've done that on meandering curves but these days I use flex track with no fixed rails. As Sheldon mentioned earlier, the only consideration is which side the ties are molded together on. They will either spread or close depending on which side is inside or out.
Craig
Craig:
Very nice work, I noticed you even preserved the "spikes" on the loose ties. I haven't worked with flex, hope I can do justice to it.
Is it possible to "bunch up" the ties to one side, (slide them together) then slide them back in place after joining, rather than completely remove them?
I have been experimenting with a piece, the spikes on the sliding rail are longer/larger, I'm trying to figure out what keeps the "fixed" side from sliding also, is the rail glued to the ties? I removed some end ties, had to really pull to get them off the fixed side.
Bo
Bo,
The flex track I use does not have a fixed rail; they both slide with ease. Atlas Superflex is the same way. I know what you mean about the difficulty of removing ties from flex track with a fixed rail because I used it in my yard a few years ago.
You can't bunch the ties up because they have built in spacers. On one side the spacers are connected in larger groups. This keeps the gauge uniform by preventing the ties from shifting (out of right angles to the rail)as the track is formed into a radius; if the ties shifted, the rails would move closer together. Also, you can't slide the ties past your rail joiners. I have pretty good luck just pressing the rails back into the cleats on the ties after I slide them under the rails, but where joiners are located I grind the cleats off with a dremel and a 1/8" bit.
Craig
Bo,
E-mail me and I'll send you a link you might have use for.
Craig
I have said it before; be careful of this-use a track gauge judiciously, and muchly, as this is a potential for a bucketful of trouble. Those tie-less rail sections can narrow up and even a little can spell disaster; especially if that joint is tunnel-bound...
Rich
"I've been rich, and I've been poor. And rich is better!"
-Sophie Tucker
I always put the ties back so there are no tie-less sections. In places where rail joiners are installed, Rich is absolutely right. I place a gauge on the rails and glue fitted ties beneath the joiners. I leave the gauge in place while the glue cures.
Speaking of gauge:
Super-flex type track tends to have a little play in the gauge because both rails are loose in the cleats. On curves, the tension tends to eliminate that play quite a bit but on straight runs I find myself placing drops of glue on the cleats here and there after installation and gauging.
Craig