I am new to trains bought a bachmann ho small set freight car plastic and three of the trucks the part that snaps them in place have broken where can I get replacements they are also plastic
For some inexplicable reason, my prior response was deleted.
Do these have the couplers mounted to the trucks?
Yes they do one small screw any help would be appreciated I got into this to have a hobby with my grandson 5
do the trucks snap into the underframe, or are they held on with screws?
are the couplers the newer knuckle style or the old Horn Hook?
They snap into the undercarriage and the coupler like a horn on a impala curves and hooks in place
k410, now it becomes the $64 (only cheaper) question bc here is the deal: rolling stock runs better when the coupler is attached to the underside of the car body. Also "knuckle" style couplers with the little copper spring operate better than the "horn hook" style your car currently comes with. If you are willing to purchase trucks (with wheels) and knuckle couplers and are handy enough, you can modify you cars to have this kind of set up. The question becomes, it is worth it to you to modify your cars or just replace them? Your locomotives would also have to utilize a knuckle style coupler to work with rolling stock that has knuckle couplers.
This would involve filling the big bolster hole where the broken pin formerly fit into with something like styrene, plastic or JB weld and then tap it for a 2-56 screw that would then hold the new truck (truck only w/o coupler attached). You would also have to mount a coupler box to the underside of the edge of the rolling stock to hold the knuckle coupler. All of this involves spending dough on trucks, coupler boxes, screws and knuckle couplers.
The hole where the style of truck you have fits into, is pretty large compared to other styles that have trucks with couplers attached (referred to as Talgo trucks).
As part of this process, you should also have a Kadee coupler height gauge so you can set the height of your couplers to be the same so they operate well together.
Jonathan and Yampa Bob here posted pics on how to modify the rolling stock. Both were very good tutorials. Search under "modifyng old rolling stock" or something similar and you should be able to find them. There is also info out there on the net (GOOGLE) about doing this. If you are interested, I can find a link I saved and post it.
You could also search for trucks with the pin style like you have, but don't know how successful you will be since that style went the way of the Do Do Bird. Even if you searched out the same rolling stock to "cannibalize" these kinds of trucks from, the same problem remains-those pins are known to be fragile and break.
Please let us know if you want to know more.
Kellum; the best investment you can make on rolling stock is good trucks and couplers. Along with a good coupler gauge, as well as an NMRA gauge (National Model Railroaders Association) available at most good hobby shops, good truck and coupler installs are extremely important, whether or not you are an old-timer, or brand new to the hobby. In my opinion (as a human being), the best trucks and couplers are going to be Kadee. You can go on their site at "kadee.com" and see what they have-I also recommend them because they have a pretty good information team, and can answer pretty much any question you have. Good Luck and welcome aboard.
Rich C.
Kell-
You can save a bit of cash if you cut the beams which support your existing couplers off of their trucks and then replace the (presumably plastic) wheelsets with new ones with plastic wheels. Then you can install couplers on the bottom of your railcars' bodies. It's probably better to replace the entire truck, but getting rid of the coupler and installing metal wheels will help a whole lot.
Let me throw in my two cents about jbrock's suggestion that you should have a Kadee coupler height gauge. He is 100% right. Having couplers at the exact right height is very important.
-- D
this in a nutshell is why newbies should avoid the so called bargain lots of cars on ebay. most of the time you are getting 30* year old cars of inferior quality, that will take a lot of time and money to make into good performers. your best bet is to bite the bullet and buy the new cars, as most of them are very good runners.
here is a rough estimate of the cost of upgrading just ONE car:
metal wheelsets, $1 each, 4 per car.
new trucks, $3-5 per pair.
kadee couplers, $1 each, 2 per car.
total upgrade cost about $10 per car. vs cost of new silver series at the favorite spot $10-15.
as you can see, that bargain lot isn't such a bargain.
Not to take away from you point Jeff as I agree with you about doing a cost analysis of what it costs to "upgrade" a car (please see above I mention having to purchase the items to do so as well as asking the question: "is it worth it to you to modify your cars or just replace them?") 'Worth' would be $$.
But, I think the prices you state for the parts are a little on the high side, as I have found quality trucks, couplers (I know you prefer Kadee over EZ mate Mark IIs or McHenry's) and wheels (I know you like all metal and do not like delrin axle wheelsets like Kadee and P2K). Not everyone has the same "requirements" for those parts. I also think the low price you are talking about for everyone's favorite Bachmann on-line retailer, is a little on the low side.
That said, I certainly would not invest $10 in parts to convert a candy colored old Bachmann freight car with horn hook couplers and I can't imagine anyone would unless there was some huge sentimental value attached to it. But my point is, if one puts some effort into price shopping, they can find better prices for the parts. And it therefore may become 'worth' it to them to modify a car. In addition I think some shopping can also find better prices for freight cars that have all the modern accouterments.
keep in mind that if you order parts online you have to pay shipping, which unless you are buying in bulk, negates any online savings. thus, for parts, you end up paying about the same as going to the local hobby shop for them.
you could get away without the metal wheelsets, but on an older car you'd definitely want to replace the pizza cutter wheels with ones with an rp25 contour. as for couplers, my experience has shown that the plastic ones are nowhere as durable as metal ones like kadee. I do use them if the car or loco came with them, but when they do fail I replace them with kadees. by converting the older cars to kadee to begin with, you won't have to change the couplers a second time if they fail.
with the plastic knuckle couplers, I have found two major problems. some have a plastic spring to hold the knuckle closed. with those types it isn't a question of if they'll fail, it's when. once the spring loses its spring, they won't stay coupled. the other major issue is that if the trip pin snags on anything at speed, you bend the coupler shank, once bent, it throws coupler height out of whack, and the shank is almost impossible to straighten to where it was.
you may not agree with what I post, and that's your right. but there are good practical reasons for what I recommended. I learned a lot of this stuff the hard way, and hopefully I can save someone the frustrations I went through with those conversions back in the days when we didn't have much choice.
The same shipping cost and possibly tax, can apply to ordering new rolling stock on line. Buying from a local shop will (should anyway) add the cost of tax. If there are no local shops to buy from, factor in the cost of gas to drive there. No gas cost to consider ordering on line.
I don't know why, but you appear to misunderstand what I have said about wheelsets and couplers. I did not advocate for buying plastic wheels, non rp25 contour wheels or non spring type knuckle couplers. The Kadee and P2K wheelsets I mention, are metal, rp25 contour wheels. It is my understanding that you do not favor those over all metal wheelsets, bc you do not like delrin axles. You have stated this in the past, that you prefer metal axled wheelsets. If I misunderstand you, please let me know. The EZ mate Mark IIs and McHenry couplers have knuckle springs, which is why I named them.
I agree with you that an all metal coupler, like Kadee, has less of a tendency to bend out of shape than a plastic knuckle style (with springs of course) like EZ Mate Mark IIs and McHenry, but I would not say they are "required", especially depending on your use. If a trip pin is too low, the easy solution is buy trip pin pliers from a place like Micro Mark to turn them up.
I know there are practical reasons for what you suggest and that you have made a habit of making practical suggestions. That's a great way to make suggestions, I think. I would point out what may be practical for some, may not be for others. It goes back to what I said early on, it still comes down to determining whether something is "worth"" doing for you, the individual.
On the subject of plastic, since it has been brought up, and when I say plastic, I refer to delrin wheels, many folks have successfully used delrin rp25 wheels on metal axles, on their layout. This includes Jim Banner.
Quote from: jward on January 23, 2014, 11:19:46 PM
here is a rough estimate of the cost of upgrading just ONE car:
metal wheelsets, $1 each, 4 per car.
new trucks, $3-5 per pair.
kadee couplers, $1 each, 2 per car.
total upgrade cost about $10 per car. vs cost of new silver series at the favorite spot $10-15.
Jeff-
I'm with you 100% on the question of upgrading older, inexpensive rolling stock. Basically, my position is don't do it except for pieces with great sentimental value or ones which are otherwise unavailable. However, I'm not so sure that the costs are quite what you listed.
Crummy Talgo trucks can be greatly improved at the cost of new metal wheelsets, which can be around $3 per car. The Talgo beam can be removed enabling the installation of Kadees on the car body's underside. In my experience, that doesn't have to cost a buck a car. About $1.50 is more like it. Thus, the operational improvements will come to roughly $5 per car rather than twice that. And I have to add that my observations with the Favorite Spot don't impress me as quite as inexpensive as you state. Oh, I'm sure that some auctions go at the prices you cite, but that's an artifact of a lack of interest in the model at that particular time, not a characteristic of the Favorite Spot's overall pricing structure. Mind you, I buy from the Favorite Spot at times and have referred a number of people to them, so my comment is not intended as a criticism of that retailer. As far as shipping and taxes go, they are only as high as you mention if the upgrade components are bought in small quantities. The cost per unit can be as little as 10-15 cents if they are purchased in bulk. This is, if anything, less than the sales tax would be on a local purchase, at least in a high tax (7.125%) state such as Minnesota where I hang out.
I have known people to state that updating old cars allows them to get a full complement of rolling stock on their railroads quickly at a much more affordable cost than all new stock. I suppose they are right but I still cannot endorse the practice. Those renewed cars will still suffer from a lack of the fine detail found on most current stock. Sooner or later that will motivate at least some modelers to replace the old cars; they'll find that there is not much of a market for them. A LHS might give them a buck or two at most. Even brought up to date they'll be lucky to get more than $5 on eBay and many cars will sell for much less. Thus, their investment in the cars and updates will be mostly a throwaway.
I encourage folks considering such an action to rethink if they really want to spend scarce hobby money on things they will eventually have to scrap at a loss. I'm happy to report that, so far, I've persuaded friends that building their rolling stock inventory slowly with quality items makes more sense in the long run. I've even lent some of my own models to them while they are in the process of acquiring new things. This gives them a chance to check out different brands, compare kits with RTR, and have a good experience rather than the frustration of cheap junk derailing or uncoupling.
-- D
Doneldon
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Re: Can you replace horn and hook couplers on old Bachmann rolling stock
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 03:44:11 PM »
BigAl-
Yes. I strongly encourage you to mount your knuckle couplers (Kadees are best) to your car bodies for best operation. You can just cut off the truck coupler arms or replace the whole assembly with new trucks if you have Talgo trucks. Be sure to use a coupler height gauge to make certain that your couplers are installed at the right height; this is much more important for reliable operation than you may think.
While you are updating your older rolling stock, make sure you have metal wheels. You'll need 33" diameter
wheels for most freight cars and 36" wheels for most passenger cars. In most cases, it is possible to twist the
truck to remove the old wheelset and install the new one.
-- D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 11:17:10 AM by Doneldon »
I'm confused. In one post, I see the words "strongly encourage", in the other, I see "don't do it". ??
-jb
This adds to my confusion. In one post, I see the words "with a little investment", in the other, I see "will take a lot of time and money".
-jb
jward
protowatchdog
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Re: Still run your Old rolling stock?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 09:22:13 PM » Reply with quote
the tyco and ahm stuff, like most train set equipment from the 1970s, were truly dismal performers. and yet.....i still have some around. with a little investment to replace the wheelsets and the truck mounted couplers you could make some nice running cars out of them. some of the stuff they had was truly unique, like the 60' hi cube boxcar, or its little brother, the standard height 60' boxcar. ahm had a model of a tie car, sort of a bulkhead flat with a bar cage along the sides. or the 6 dome tank car. all of these i would consider upgrading simply because of their uniqueness.
and back in the days before the bowser cabooses, the old tyco streamlined caboose could be kitbashed into a reasonable model of a pennsylvania N8 class caboose.....
metal wheels and body mounted kadees make a world of difference.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
wow you're really reaching there, digging up something I wrote 5 years ago......
read the whole message to keep the context. what I stated was that in the case of unique models, such as those listed in the post, I can justify the time and expense to upgrade those cars. their unique look adds to the variety of the cars running on my layout, for much less hassle than building say a resin kit.
in the case of say a 40 foot boxcar or hopper car, those upgraded models being sold to-day are essentially the same car as those produces in the 1970s, but with all the upgrading already done for you by the manufacturer. unless there is a compelling reason to do so, I won't try to upgrade those cars.
also keep in mind that I am old enough that I can remember a time when those junk cars were the rule rather than the exception, and was forced by circumstances to do the upgrades on them. I also had access to my dad's and grandfather's tools back then, which helped greatly.
during that time, certain cars common in real life were unavailable in model form, such as 3 bay hopper cars. if you wanted them, you had to hack apart a couple of tyco or lifelike hoppers and reassemble them in the configuration you wanted.
Jim-
There is no conflict if you read carefully. I urge people NOT to update their old equipment because I, like you and several others on this site, don't think it is cost effective or a good idea generally because the old cheapies tend to have poor details, paint and lettering. However, I'm aware that people do this anyway for a variety of reasons. In that case, I strongly urge that, among the updates, replacing couplers (whether X2f or knuckles) include repositioning them to the car body rather than staying with the Talgos. It's also true that there are some cars which are worth bringing up to date, including those with a high sentimental value. For those situations, too, I strongly urge that the couplers be repositioned if the car in question has Talgos.
Keep in mind that some old cars are worth upgrading. I have purchased old wooden Silver Streak cars with excellent finish work but, for reasons unknown to me, lousy trucks and/or couplers. (Those kits were sold without trucks and couplers.) Replacing the hardware on those with quality components is easily justified, in my opinion. The same can be said of Ambroid models, LaBelle kit cars, Walthers wood and metal heavyweight passenger equipment, a few brass models from time to time, and Central Valley kits. Of course, the CVs usually have fabulous trucks since they were sold that way, but sometimes they have horn hook couplers or replacement trucks because the originals crystallized and disintegrated.
Would I ever upgrade an old shake-the-box plastic kit? Sure. I did exactly that with the first HO kit I ever built, a silver Athearn Western Pacific Feather River boxcar, vintage 1959. I replaced the couplers, of course, and even the all metal trucks which I had assembled decades before. (Keep in mind that Athearn trucks at that time came in pieces. They had to be assembled, including four tiny springs per truck which held the assembly together. And this was before I knew the trick of using a piece of thread to restrain an errant spring! I therefore spent a fair amount of time crawling around on the floor with a flashlight, looking for the tiny shadow caused by the minute metal coil. Yes, updating my old box car was well worth it to me after all that.)
-- D
Doneldon offers good advice.
1) Stay away from Talgos.
2) Body mount all couplers.
3) Fortunately, I have few of the poor quality cars, I gave the less detailed ones away.
4) In my case though, I usually do not replace the trucks but everything now has metal wheels. I'm a little less concerned about freight car details as I am about locomotive and caboose details. After all, most people generally look and the front and rear of a train, not at the consist. I consider freight cars as part of the "Big Picture" and providing they do not stand out but blend in, that's good enough for me.
Cheers.
Roger.
doneldon,
I do agree with you about the older athearn cars. most of them came with rp25 wheels and body mounted couplers. so it doesn't take much to bring them up to good running standards. all I usually do to them is put kadee couplers on them, and add a bit of weight to them.. the same goes with roundhouse cars.
does the lack of detail on the older cars bother me? not really. my cars get a lot of handling, and fragile detail parts tend to break off under heavy use. if it's just going to break off anyway, I'd prefer they leave the parts off and lower the price of the car to reflect this. for me the most important thing is that they run well.
Perhaps the best thing to do is to take about fifteen minutes with the proprietor of a good hobby shop-who is well-versed on model railroading. If he is any kind of professional, he will give you some sound advice, sending you in the right direction. Like a lot of the others, I would not buy what I like to call "junkers". But then I am more into resin kits now; just the way I have evolved. We all evolve differently here. My advice is to look at Intermountain, Bachmann, et al. These are a pretty good class of quality-and they will tend to leave you alone until you have established yourself in this hobby and become somewhat well-versed in it. Good luck.
Rich C.
Jeff, there may be more recent posts, but that was the first I came across, so I stopped my search there.
I think we all, are in agreement on most aspects of this and much has been repeated. Here's the points I have been trying to make, from the beginning:
-the individual needs to decide whether a car is worth updating, based on age of car, availability, quality etc, etc and cost of parts to do that-the parts including, knuckle couplers with metal coil springs, draft boxes, rp25 wheelsets and trucks (non-talgo obviously)
- the cost of the parts are not as high as it could be or thought to be, especially if one shops around. while metal (rp25) wheels and Kadee couplers are better, they are not required. you can have a fine running car with delrin rp25 wheels and EZ Mate Mark II or McHenry (both metal coil spring) couplers. the new trucks can be delrin, as opposed to having to be metal
Now, as I said before, I would not spend $10 in parts to upgrade a candy colored old Bachmann car, in fact, I can say I would not spend any $$ to do so. But someone may actually want to. Just 'cause I don't, doesn't mean someone else might not want to. Would I spend a couple of bucks to upgrade an AHM, Gilbert, Life Like, IHC, TYCO, Walthers or Athearn car? Yes, and I have and it has not been cost prohibitive bc I did the cost/benefit analysis before doing so, which included some price shopping as well. Plus, it was fun! Do I also buy Silver Series and other cars that don't require any upgrading? Sure do and I like those cars as well.
Rich, I wish I could walk into the LHS and get some good advice, but I am not sure the owner would be able to tell a horn hook coupler from a knuckle coupler :D Radio control is his bag.
Peace out my brothers!
Brock;
you know; as a kid, I grew up in the Greater Boston area, and could open the phone book and find about twelve hobby shops-including Hobbytown of Boston-and do very well. One in particular stands out: Eric Fuch's. I am sure the old timers can remember that name. it is too bad how things have evolved, and what one might accurately describe as total indifference to the hobby-on the part of the personnel seems to be the rule now. This is one of the things that has lead most guys towards on-line shopping.
Rich C.
I agree with you Rich.