Hi Bachmann,
While I understand some reationale for not returning the entire Aristocraft line to production, could it be possible that you could do runs of the prime mover gear boxes? Specifically the worm gears, helical gears and axles. These components do wear out over time but the way the gearboxes are made, it is relatively easy to replace these parts. Technically, I could purchase the 3 axle motorblock but I really only need the gearboxes. I currently have 48 gearboxes in operation at various stages of life.
It is nice to be able to purchase gears for the other locomotives in the lineup but it would be great if we could get these components as well.
Thanks!
Dear Mark,
I will pass that idea, a good one, I think, along to the group.
Thanks!
the Bach-man
Mark, I've found these gearboxes to be very bulletproof (IF you lube the gears, and the sliding axles).
I've got a few more gearboxes than you have and have had zero failures, although I'm surely in a more "gentle" climate.
Can you list what failures you have had? Particularly interested in "axle failures". Just compiling experiences.
Regards, Greg
Dear Bach-man,
Thanks! Even if they were offered as an assembled unit, it would be helpful!
Hi Greg,
Good to hear from you! So what I am finding is that starting with my oldest aristo prime mover equipped loco, a Reading Mikado, there was some racing at the axle/ball bearing. Likely this started to cause some minor arcing which resulted in creation of grooves in the axles. I thought I remembered you had dug in to these back in the oughts when you discovered the springs pushing the ball bearing for power pick up would fail. That was part of the reason I checked those when I disassembled my motor blocks.
The other thing I noticed on my most recent prime mover rebuild, a 2nd generation mallet, was that at least one of the hex drives on the worm gear was partially or fully stripped. This was noticable in the form of a bit of a herky jerky movement of the wheel. I note this gear is the one closest to the motor and therefore is subject to the highest torque. My opinion is that this particular locomotive had never been lubricated and run hard and put up wet in outdoor storage. Why? Because the axles felt 'gritty' as I worked to clean that locomotive. Maybe someone mistook WD-40 for lubricant? Anyway, I had two spare 3d printed worm gears so after the heat/destroy a #2 screwdriver/melt red loctite method to remove a steam locomotive wheel, I was able to replace the axle with new spares and also open the gearbox, lube and seal it back up. I did make sure to lube the axles of the locomotives and will double check my other engines as well.
1. you can buy replacement motor blocks for the Dash 9, that have 3 prime mover gearboxes in them, and for some time now.
2. so you need to lubricate the axles on a regular basis, especially if you get dirt and moisture on the axles (shove a driver all the way to one side, put heavy oil on the exposed axle between the driver and motor block, and then shove the driver all the way in the opposite direction.
3. as soon as you lose lubrication at this point, then the ball bearing will wear a groove into the axle... it's not from arcing, but from friction/lack of lubrication.
4. when you have a Aristo loco, you need to test power pickup at EVERY wheel, and fix it if there is no continuity.. it's a weak point in the design, there is a little finger that touches the spring that presses on the ball bearing... if the finger does not touch the spring, no power pickup. With typically several drivers NOT picking up power, that puts additional stress on the remaining working pickups and you are on your way to issues.
5. realize when you get grooves in the axles, they are now locked mechanically from sliding side to side in operation, which in turn puts an extreme load on the geartrain and destroys it.
So this all resulted from not lubricating... it common with locos that are not lubricated... or sit outside or both.
(https://elmassian.com/images/stories/motivepower/aristo/prime/prime_wear.JPG)
Read all about it here:
https://elmassian.com/index.php/large-scale-train-main-page/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/aristo-motive-power/prime-mover-basics
Wow! I've only seen wear like the second one down not the extreme like the ones attached to the gear!! Gads!!
Heavy oil? I've got medium oil. Think that works good enough?
So I use the "heavy gear oil" from various vendors like hob-e-lube or aero-car...
you want something that keeps a good film on the axle, to keep these 2 things:
1. keep the axle lubed so it slides side to side easily in the gearbox
2. keep the small ball bearing inside the gearbox lubed.. otherwise it grinds a slot into the axle as pictured
for those who don't know, there is a small ball bearing and a spring that contacts the axle for power pickup, and if unlubricated:;
1. it stops rolling and cuts the pictured grooves in the axle
2. interferes with power pickup
3. derails the loco (locks the axle from moving side to side)
4. increases drag in the gearbox and accelerates wear of the worm gear
There is a club in Florida that HATES these gearboxes and swaps all Aristo/Bachmann to USAT gearboxes.
Turns out they leave the locos outside, never check or lubricate the axles, and the dirt, high humidity and lack of lubrication cause this damage.
Bachmann has always espoused regular lubrication, and this is a new facet that even Bachmann does not (I believe) full appreciate yet.
Hi Greg,
It's been a little while since you and I have interacted, nice to chat with you again!
I now see what you're talking about on the axles. Only one of mine got sort of bad but no where near the racing that you posted! I will add the heavy gear oil (I have been using medium for a while) to my shopping list! Do you have a part number you can post?
Here in Central PA, I don't leave the trains outside and they generally live a good life in the basement storage areas. To be honest, our schedule is so packed that I normally have no time to run the trains at all. I ran them a half dozen times or less since May and now with colder weather setting in and an oak tree that's about to dump all its leaves, I don't expect to operate more than once or twice again this year! I will be setting up a track out front for the holidays but normally just run my analog trains on that and no prime movers! Just LGB stainz's and Bachmann Annies!
Back to my original product request, I would like to be able to purchase new worm gears, new helical gears and new axles. Based on your discussion of the power pick up, maybe there's a way to improve that design and offer it as an upgrade. I do believe my rear drive train of my older mallet suffers from this problem and only has one working power pick up.
If new steam engine wheels for the mikado/mallet/e-27 and the pacific were made, I would buy them too.
It's easy to fix the power pickup... It's on my site under "prime mover" use the search (or go down into LS >>> motive power >> aristo >> prime mover
But I wonder if the price for 3 gearboxes would be the same as for one replacement dash 9 block, which is available.
OK, will check.
Don't you think it would be cheaper to sell just the component pieces instead of assemblies? I bought a bag of the aristo couplers from Bachmann and I had to do some assembly work. Not that much but some. Anyway, Bachmann also sells individual gears for their other large scale trains so I guess it is just a question of order quantities.
So, per history of Bachmann and Aristo, the handling of small parts costs as much as expensive parts, so with a lot less profit per part on cheap parts, the alternative is sell a bag of 10, or only sell a part as part of a larger assembly.
The gears are sort of historical, i.e. needed for years, back in the heyday... but I think some gears are only purchased with an axle now, or no longer available separate from an entire drivetrain.
Sign of the times...