Hi Guys,
I was looking at an ebay listing and came across this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/297518397386
At first glance, it looks like the newest Anniversary loco but on closer inspection, the chassis has been swapped on the engine. I did reach out to the seller for a clarification and he is looking in to it. ANyway, would the old chassis actually work with the new electronics?
Is the valve gear why you say it does not have the original chassis?
Quote from: Mark Oles on October 16, 2025, 02:02:19 PMI was looking at an ebay listing
The box says it has a p-n-p board, and looking at the tender it has very nice small rivet heads. That makes it a new gen-7 version, with Pittman motor, brass gears, etc.
It is still available in the B'mann store for $1,200. Street price seems to be $600.
Why do you think the chassis has been swapped?
Yep, agree, that is the latest, 7th gen tender for sure.
Without detailed pictures of the undersides, can neither confirm or deny the loco.
Hi Mark, The entire loco may have been put in a different box. All version 7 Chassis have Walshearts Valve gear. The 1225 Christmas loco was decorated the same way in all versions of it. It would be easy for a cheater to put the older locomotive in the version 7 box. I personally do not believe it is a version 7. We would need pictures of the back head and the underside as well as of the interior of the tender to be really sure.
Take care,
Bill
Bill, you do agree that the tender is the new, v7 design though, right?
I think that this has had its' chassis swapped for an older generation chassis.
The valve gear is different from what is shown in the photo shown on the Bachmann website.
Also, its hard tell, but the front pilot looks like the old design.
Finally, the model number shown on the pictured box,91805, corresponds to the description on the Bachmann website as well.
Just my 2 cents here, but I think that this one is a cheat.
Perhaps not intentionally by the seller...
But it does appear that someone changed that Version #7 chassis for a version #5.
Mike
Yeah, as Bill noted, we have a version 7 tender, and NOT a version 7 chassis/rod and valve gear.
The mystery deepens. I flipped the pic on the B'mann store and put them one on top of the other.
Note the airpump is missing on the eBay version. Could this be a gen-5 Anniversary version with a new tender? We need more photos.
Good theory, why would someone sell the new tender... answer: existing loco with electronics in the old tender, but needed the nice valve gear and the newer drivetrain?
Something is not Kosher
The top photo is the starboard side of the engine... no air pump.
The bottom photo is actually the port side of the engine, and it shows the air pump where it belongs; the bottom photo is a reverse image.
Jay
Pete, you flipped the image to fake the other side of the loco, and then say the air pump is missing?
Air pumps on both sides of the loco?
good catch V12 !!
It is pretty useless without additional photos to trust anything about this locomotive and tender. I do not trust anything about this ebay offer. No further comment on my part until I see detailed photos including the bottom, backhead and the inside of the tender. I have a personal policy of never buying motive power on ebay because of things like this. it has been fun tho!
Quote from: veetwelve on October 19, 2025, 02:33:01 PMThe bottom photo is actually the port side of the engine, and it shows the air pump where it belongs; t
Oops.
It did occur to me that a gen-7 tender with all the electronics might be worth a pretty penny.
Pete, sure would. If the tender is Gen 7 the the new style plug ins on it would not be compatible with the connectors on the loco if it were an older loco, Right?
In one of the pictures you can see the new, larger, more wires plug indicative of a "Gen 7", so if male plug is on cable coming from tender, then the tender is "Gen 7". But the loco does not match the picture on the box's end-cap in terms of gearing, wheel/driver center color, cylinder decoration, etc. Loco definitely does not match and fairly certain not "Gen 7". Quality eBay listings usually have many more photo showing many more details. Avoid this item.
Just by rivet size alone, that has been confirmed as a Gen 7.
I think earlier it was pretty well determined that is not the original box.
My theory is that someone wanted a newer chassis, bought a new Gen 7 at some point, swapped out the chassis and is selling it.
So it is the original box now containing the original tender and the original loco shell.
But for some unknown reason the original chassis has been removed from the original shell and been replaced by an older version chassis that looks in nearly new condition.
seems so, unfortunately, what is being physically offered does not match the box or the description of that item on EVERY other site, including Bachmann.
the seller sells a fair amount of trains vs other stuff, he has sold 157 items, but has 301 feedback entries..
Anyway, good on Mark for ferreting this out.
Quote from: Loco Bill Canelos on October 21, 2025, 07:35:06 AMit would not be compatible with the connectors on the loco
It would not. Interestingly, the photo on the box from eBay shows a lot more wires than I would expect from a regular Annie, and the box says it is p-n-p equipped. The photo of the loco shows a tender with a big plug. (Attached.)
Quite a mystery.
That actually makes sense...
The tender is definitely V7.... the loco number and box indicate V7, so those wires should reflect V7 connections...
Now, is it (the motor block and other boards in the loco) actually wired correctly? Who knows?
Quote from: Greg Elmassian on October 22, 2025, 06:58:23 PMWho knows?
I am curious, so I messaged the seller. He said he'd send some more photos tonight. Also said he's not a train guy so he has no idea what might be problematic.
Hi All, At this point I feel the loco and tender are V7. The V7's first appeared in the 2020 catalog and still appear in the 2025 catalog except for the 91801 Flying Rio Grande. The 91805 NP&S 1225 Christmas V7 as shown on the box end in the sellers listing checks out with the catalog listings. The idea that the chassis might have been changed in some way seems virtually impossible since an older chassis would not have compatible connectors with a V7 tender. I say virtually impossible because some one of us might try it just for the hell of it. It will be interesting to see the photos the seller sends to Pete.
Bill
So the unexplained part is the valve gear.
The wires from the chassis to the loco are simple, so I do believe it would be pretty simple to graft an older chassis, since you are only talking motor and power pickup wires.
(Of course the chuff circuit I believe is different, although that brings up an interesting, related subject, the recent realization that replacement chassis come with a board that interfaces to BOTH the traditional chuff cam,and the optical interface... the circuit board supplied with the replacement chassis has TWO sockets, one 2 wire for chuff cam, and one 3 wire for the optical)
So, I think the possibility exists that someone did swap a replacement chassis with different valve gear into a V7... so far the part number on the box only came with the walscherts valve gear, and this one has different valve gear..
Interesting situation.....
I agree the possibility exists, but makes little sense. I agree the valve gear question is puzzling. Having said that it would not be the first time Bachmann used a picture that was not of the actual product.
I have been following Bachmann Large scale since 1998 and crazier things have happened. Still hoping Pete can get pictures from the seller.
Really need to see a picture of the rear of loco to see what type of connector/cable is present. Since photo shows tender connector unattached, no way to know if even possible to connect. Seller told Fred2179 that he's not really a train guy, so he may not have even tried to connect and run, simply removed from box to take pictures and assumes it all matches and works.
well my theory is still a chassis swap:
1. v7 tender for sure, rivets AND you can see the multi pole socket..
2. correct box for the loco shell and tender, again v7
3. looking carefully, you can see the multi pole male connector not plugged into the socket, but there
4. wrong siderods/valve gear
It appears the loco plug is correct, and clearly the tender socket is right.
Was the loco number ever sold under a different road number?
Greg
My theory is the loco and tender are correctly identified as V7, even tho the valve gear is different than the one shown in the catalog.
I say this for the following reasons:
I have been studying my database and so far can find no evidence the 1225 road number was used again with the latest NP&S paint scheme. The paint scheme on the subject loco was first used in the sets made for Sam's Club. The idea being to brighten up the red color. What I do see is the locos were made with both Stephenson and Walshearts valve gear. I also see many mistakes in the catalog pictures not reflecting the actual item, some involving the valve gear and others the incorrect road number, and some with a different paint scheme on the actual product.
Forgot to mention the picture on the box does show the Walshearts valve gear while the loco inside has the Stepenson gear supporting Greg's theory. When the mystery is solved if ever I will so note in my database of Bachmann large Scale items.
I see the seller has offered $45 off, $370 is an amazing price if my theory is correct. I'm almost tempted to push the button but I would have to repaint it. $370 is a decent price for a loco with V5 these days.
Oh the fun of speculating. LOL
Hi, Bill!
He's still asking $415.00 plus shipping.
When did you see it at $370.00?
It's been on my Ebay watch list well before it became a conversation piece here.
It sure is pretty!
I check Ebay listings every day for Big Hauler parts as I'm currently looking for another D&RGW or D&S tender tank in the bumblebee paint scheme.
Best regards,
Mike
Hi guys!
Interesting conversation. I looked closely at it again a few more times. I think this is a South Pacific Coast (81095) chassis based on the paint scheme and valve gear design. And it is clearly the V7 tender and it appears to be the boiler shell from the NP&S from the V7 production. Nothing about this makes much sense, unless somehow the original drive somehow was damaged or scavenged and this one added. The guy did offer a lower price to me as well but I was more curious than interested in buying.
Yeah, I would stay away... it would be interesting to know how the chassis was integrated, specifically chuff circuitry, and I believe there is still a flicker board.
I'd stay away.
Just because I'm curious, I messaged the seller and asked for pics of the cab and tender. He obligingly sent pics of the underside of loco and tender.
(I'll attach the other pic in my next post. Edit: it let me put 1310MB in the attachments so here's both.)
From Bill's sticky of the chassis ID, that's a Gen-5 regular Annie chassis - slotted front truck mount, Stephenson's valve gear. Yet the loco has all the PNP460 gen-7 features of dual electrical plugs, looks like it has a firebox glow window behind the opening door?
He's offering 11% off, or $370. It's still at 'make me an offer' so he'll probably accept less?
I'm just curious as to what happened?! The tender wheels show wear, the annie wheels do not. It even shows the new drawbar style. I guess it is just odd to me because this new version big hauler is seemingly superior in every way to all previous big haulers. It's like they took the original battery big hauler drive mechanism and put it under an annie (which wouldn't work anyway). In a way, I kinda feel bad for the selller because it is such a weird thing he's trying to sell. If it was maybe $50, I would think more seriously about buying it.
On the flip side, this makes me more confident in a future anniversary big hauler purchase! Love the drawbar arrangement and large connectors!
again my theory: new chassis swapped into a V7... perhaps ran originally and damaged the v7 chassis... or did not want it any more but wanted the chassis... since the seller seems to NOT be the person who did the swap, we'll probably never know the "back story"
Well, someone bought it.
Maybe it's a member of our little board?
If it was one of you guys, please respond with details after you receive the loco.
Thanks!
Mike
Mike if you bought it please post all you can about it when you get it. You can also PM me if you prefer. I want to see if there was some kind of intermediate chassis just before the V7. The plugs, firebox door, seem to be v7, but the front truck seems to be earlier, and if it is a v7 it would be the first with Stephenson valve gear.
Bill
Clearly a modified (seemingly well done) of a V7 loco shell with a V5 frame/chassis especially with the wiring. Should be noted that seller also has a 4-6-0 modified to a Camelback. Appears as the original owner was into "extreme" modifications. Why? Only he/she knows. I will say that the workmanship looks pretty good. One thing, I have never seen V7 chassis on Bachmann parts store, so maybe chassis was broken and original owner wanted new chassis from Bman parts so settled for V5 and adapted wiring.
Hi.
No, I didn't buy it, Bill.
I was tempted, but in the end, I decided not to get it.
I have a couple of projects in the works, and I already have a Christmas train(North Star Express Anniversary Edition).
I did like it,even with the mods!
Mike
Quote from: RailMan63 on October 28, 2025, 09:06:19 PMMaybe it's a member of our little board?
T'was me. I couldn't resist. He took a much reduced price, so when I finish opening it up and taking pictures for you guys, I can hopefully sell it before Christmas for what I paid. :)
Well Pete it would be you! I will look forward to your photos and opinion as to what it really is. If is stock I will have to change my info related to identifying it. Bill
Just saw this on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/p/25053570820 it is a V7 91805 1225 with Walshearts Valve gear and looks exactly like the photos in the catalog.
The the link shows the V5 1225 Loco from the Wonderland Flyer set. It would be easy for even an experienced G Scaler to think it is also the V7.
Cheers and Beers, Bill
https://www.ebay.com/itm/267454609227?_skw=Bachmann%20%20g%20scale%20christms%20locomotive&itmmeta=01K8ZQSWRSH9TXARD7G2AVH7G4&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA4FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1eDlw4xsYyeiyLvlCJD%2BYF9Q4mwlkvxJkTCqer9GEdB2I9e1ZVN5hp0V5ofyKRdehIIzfZWDE2ECPGauBCMor8HGh5lX%2BmbcSld0F4fXE7E%2FY6w%2ByPsCqraKh02cLePx5IS8tjJFoHGHzqaia0ZGwHGp3Oi58q1%2FfnWAw1xDDd%2FXuaSf%2FtYyOJ1VEDMTIr3mr%2BhJ37Onf556CCfxLro7qtHnpd%2BKP9SW37YH8vX%2FIMcc%2BrSEgutvKxy6atIh5%2BB4KJevfoDArbfZOl9HANBtPwm%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-DN5_fHZg
Quote from: Loco Bill Canelos on November 01, 2025, 09:07:55 AMV5 1225 Loco from the Wonderland Flyer set. It would be easy for even an experienced G Scaler to think it is also the V7.
And he's selling the tender separately? Weird.
Unfortunately, that's a very common practice on Ebay.
Sellers think that they can make more money by selling the loco and tender separately.
And this is exactly what that seller is doing.
Grrr!
Well, at least he's not trying to pass it off as a V7...
Take a close look at the picture of the back of the loco... it has the two 2-pin plugs of the original units... that part is definitely not V7...
says he cannot get sound to work... of course the speaker is in the tender which is nowhere to be seen... ha ha....
interesting mess
It took a while, but the box finally turned up and I opened it. It's definitely a V7 tender. I'll dig in to the loco later this week (or later today!). The additional 'bits' are interesting - the old driver+fireman and a pigtail pnp board.
More to come. . .
I took the body off - sorta remembered how - though there were a few bits that I didn't expect, like a pipe/rod from under the cab to the chassis that wouldn't come off. It's attached to a rubber connector which is now a bit stretched!
All that can be seen is a PCB which seems to be the connection point for loco electrics to the new tender. G918X+PCB01 is the inscription. You'll also see all the wires coiled in the boiler and heading for this board.
I can only speculate that the board came from the original V7 loco. In which case (a) he wired items like the motor feed from the board to the V5 motor, or (b) it really is a V7. The latter doesn't fit the other facts, like the front truck or the valve gears.
Guess I will have to take the chassis cover off the bottom and see if there is any sign of someone connecting new wires?
So I took the bottom plate off, and there were no surprises, except to confirm plastic gears like a regular Annie. Wiring looked normal, except the wires to the chuff trigger were cut. Hmmm . . .
After putting the bottom back, I put it on it's wheels and removed the weight. And there it was - a couple of connected wires with tape wrapped around them. [Not even shrink wrapped. Tut. Tut.] Then grey-orange come from the MOTOR connector on the PCB. The track pickups are also reconnected to the TRACK connector on the PSB.
So someone did install a V5 Annie chassis in this V7 loco and tender. Will we ever know why?
That was our guess, V5 or 6 chassis in V7 loco and tender... seems so...
That board now comes with the chassis, as stated in another thread... Looks to try to be "universal"...
Quote from: Greg Elmassian on November 11, 2025, 12:16:21 AMThat board now comes with the chassis,
I noted in the thread about the V4-V5 swap that there was a PCB included, but it didn't have the 2 big connectors for the tender pnp motherboard? Seems, as you say, that they are trying to maintain compatibility. The plugs on this board seem to be the same as the smaller board in the non-pnp V5.
Which brings me to the next question. I plan to check the wiring connections and make sure they are sound. The chuff trigger wires have been cut. I imagine that I can wire them back to this V7 board, where there is the same trigger/sensor plug and solder pads. (pic attached.) If I wire to this, I hope the tender motherboard will reflect the chuff - I do have a meter to test. It looks as if I could just solder the wires to the CONO solder pads? Any thoughts?
Edit: I could even plug in the tender and use my meter to check the Chuff Trigger on the motherboard and see which pins on this PCB are connected, before I even reach for a soldering iron. Duh!
The meter says that the square CONO hole, and the center pin in the 3-pin connector, are all wired to the "Chuff SW" location on the tender motherboard. Which makes sense.
However, I assume the other CONO pad [rnd solder hole] ends up to ground somewhere. I know that a Revo just needs the chuff trigger (J2-1?) wired to the CHUFF SW for it to chuff..
OK, so the tender is a V7, most electronics there, and I would assume the chuff circuitry.
Now, are the 2 large connectors on the tender and are the corresponding sockets on the loco, and do those wires go to the motherboard on the loco?
trying to see how "far" the V7 wiring goes from the tender to the loco "guts"
Quote from: Greg Elmassian on November 11, 2025, 11:59:37 AMand do those wires go to the motherboard on the loco?
See my Post 46. This hybrid has the PCB out of the V7, with the big connector cables. It appears all the LEDS, switches, and smoke unit have common connectors so they plug in to this V7 board as they do on the V5 PCB.
Quote from: Greg Elmassian on November 11, 2025, 11:59:37 AMand I would assume the chuff circuitry.
There's no chuff circuit in the tender - just the pnp motherboard. (It is 'sound ready', which confuses a lot of buyers.) When I did a 2-6-0 recently, I had to wire the Revo daughter board to the chuff sw. You also have to connect the Revo to the spkr pins on the motherboard, as it doesn't use the J2 pins.
Quote from: Fred2179 on November 11, 2025, 11:43:26 AMHowever, I assume the other CONO pad [rnd solder hole] ends up to ground somewhere.
I did notice that the round CONO pad has a trace to D2, which suggests it might be grounded through that.
Today was button everything up and test it out. I haven't dismantled a 4-6-0 since maybe V4 or earlier. This V7 has a multitude of detail bits, including pipes across under the boiler between air tanks, oiler feed to the cylinders, etc.
I ended up googling to find where the various pipes go - see attached front view of the black loco showing the pipes on the air tanks. The side view of the air tank shows the extra pipe that fell off - I glued it back. And at the back are these really heavy tanks, with rubber pipes connecting them to the chassis metal pipe.
The boiler didn't want to settle down, so I moved the wire bundle from the rear connectors to the front of the weight. (Compare tha to my photo in post #46.)
Wow. Someone went to a lot of trouble to swap the drive. I guess the only thing they really wanted was the drive and didn't care about the electronics. Maybe they had already gutted their other engine and had it all set up with lights and sound.
Quote from: Mark Oles on November 17, 2025, 05:03:24 PMSomeone went to a lot of trouble to swap the drive.
I don't think it was much trouble. That recent thread about the Gen-5B Annie chassis talks about 'connectorized' wiring, and the Parts store chassis clearly has connectors on the various wires. They give you a PCB if you want to use it.
In this case, whoever it was screwed the Gen-7 PCB onto the chassis using the existing mounts, probably without disconnecting all the wires to smoke, LEDs, etc. I think it was a Gen5A chassis without motor or track connectors, so the conversion required attaching the motor and pickup plugs to the Gen5A chassis wiring. They didn't bother with the chuff, so I connected the old fingers to the PCB.
The biggest hassle is putting it all back together. :-X
From what I see, you can't get a Gen 7 chassis from the parts store. The only choice now is a Gen 5B. Something must have happened to the original Gen 7 chassis (i.e. drop/break) and owner had to adopt the Gen 5B or earlier Gen 5. If the pilot truck is a drawbar its Gen 5B, if its a pivoting truck its Gen 5. Just noticed it has chuff drum so its a Gen 5 chassis.
Umm... my opinion is that the original purchaser wanted the fancy valve action and took it and put it in his loco, and replaced it with what he could buy, since the chassis looks new.