Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: Craig on August 12, 2009, 05:40:02 PM



Title: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 12, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
I acquired a track powered large scale Bachmann 4-6-0, item #31497,  as part of a recent trade. The locomotive is sealed in a factory carton. I can see that the side rods and valve gear are all plastic, unlike those of the 4-6-0's already in my roster. How did/do these versions compare to the latest editions? The details are nice, but I know nothing of this particular mechanism; would you keep it? Please opine if you own one of these puppies, or if you have owned one in the past. Thank you.

Craig


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Jon D. Miller on August 12, 2009, 06:51:05 PM
The 31497 you have is a White Pass engine #10.  It is a Bachmann Plus series.  I find it listed in the 1994 catalog.  Loco Bill will be able to give you the exact years this locomotive was offered.

Here's a link that will give you a complete run down on the Big Hauler locomotives offered by Bachmann.  Drive trains from generation 1 through 5 are covered.  As Bachmann upgraded the Big Hauler's drive train folks started referring to the locomotives by generation based on the various drive systems.

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html

The locomotive is worth keeping since it is new.  First thing will be to give it a good lubrication.  George's site, listed above, will cover the Plus series and provide tips that will help extend it service life. 

One of the "Enthusiastic Children"


JD





Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 12, 2009, 07:50:50 PM
Jon,

That's a great site. Thank you for your assistance.

Craig


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: jpipkin on August 12, 2009, 08:09:08 PM
I've had one for over 10 years and it still runs great.  Lubrication and basic maintenance is the key.

Jim


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Jon D. Miller on August 12, 2009, 09:30:08 PM
Craig,
I should have mentioned that the Plus is a version 3 Big Hauler.  At George's site he makes mention of using a wire tie around the moter to hold if firmly in the motor mounts.  Follow his advice on that.  Also he mentions changing the ring that goes around the bearing end of the motor, that's where the motor shaft exists and the worm gear is attached.

If your Big Hauler has the older type ring, as George describes, I have the white ring that is recommended to be used.  If your engine has the older ring, contact me and I'll send you the ring that George recommends using.  This ring, when used in conjunction with the wire tie will help extend gear life.  You can contact me at jlsrails@aol.com with your mailing adress and I'll send on right out.

As a side note. I had an ET&WNC Plus version.  It was operated without any problems till the Version 5 ET&WNC Anniversary was introduced.  At thst time I sold the Plus version to a fellow club member.  That Plus version ET&WNC is still in operation, so they do hold up if given proper care.

One of the "Enthusiastic Children"

JD


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 12, 2009, 10:17:44 PM
Thank you for the generous offer, JD. And again for the helpful information.

I take it that the plastic side rods never bothered you? I've never owned a loco that didn't have metal side rods so I'm mildly put off by this design. That bias isn't based on anything in particular; I know nothing of their durability.

Craig


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Barry BBT on August 12, 2009, 11:34:51 PM
Craig,

I offer laser-cut stainless steel siderods for the Plus loco.  Comes complete with SS hardware.

Barry - BBT


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Loco Bill on August 13, 2009, 12:08:31 AM
CRaig,  I am away from my resources right now,  so detailed info on the loco will have to wait.  I will be back next monday and will provides years built Etc, if you really are interested.   The Bachmann Plus series was supposed to be an improvement to the chassis, but in my opinion was no real improvement.  As JD says much has been written about fixes, and if that kind of thing turns you on go for it.

As for my opinion on keeping it well.........

I personally got rid of my old versions of chassis 4-6-0's with plastic siderods.  Never liked the way they looked.   Sold them on Ebay getting from 50 to $75 for them used.   All my current 4-6-0 are Annies with the version 5 chassis and the metal detail parts and siderods.  My favorites are the annies with the Walshearts valve  gear.  They are solid and depedable, and I have converted them to battery power.

I was always messing with and tweaking the older version chassis 2 thru 4, motors & gears and decided enough was enough and so away the went!   I have never looked back and never regretted getting the Annies.

No matter how much you do to pretty up the older ones they are still the older ones!!!

Again this is just my personal opinion.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Danny Sheehan in Oz on August 13, 2009, 01:50:09 AM
Craig, I would not worry about the Plastic Rods, as even the so called Creme-de-Creme, LGB, used plastic rods, no problems ever.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 13, 2009, 10:49:03 AM
Thanks to all for the responses.

Jim, I appreciate the tip.

Barry, Thank you for the offer. Do you run your laser cut parts through a tumbler? Just curious.

Loco Bill, thank you for the honest opinion. I enjoy my late version Annie quite a bit.

Danny, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on, and experience with,  plastic side rods.



Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Loco Bill on August 13, 2009, 12:03:11 PM
Craig you are welcome.  My wife emailed me the info on The Bachmann Plus  WPY 4-6-0  It was made from 1992 to 1997.  It supposedly had a new improved worm gear drive and some detail upgrades such as metal handrails and a better  valve gear.    Barry can give more detail on the drive train if you need it.

In the 1997 they quit calling them Bachmann Plus.

Cheers


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 13, 2009, 12:23:11 PM
Thanks again Loco Bill. Great info.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 13, 2009, 12:25:20 PM
Someone please clarify; What makes a 4-6-0 an "Annie"? Was this a Bachmann anniversary or a Baldwin Anniversary? Is mine an "Annie" or just a Baldwin 4-6-0?


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: on30gn15 on August 13, 2009, 02:41:37 PM
That's a really good question Craig.
Just looked in their printed catalog, doesn't say for which anniversary of whom, only that posters on this board nicknamed it that.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Jon D. Miller on August 13, 2009, 03:36:40 PM
The Anniversary edition of the 10-Wheeler was introduced by Bachmann to mark the 10th anniversary of the Big Hauler's introduction.

Bachmann even produced a limited production box car to mark the event (year).

Here is a link that addresses both the standard 10-Wheeler and the Anniversary 10-Wheeler.  There are pictures that illustrate the visual and trim differences between the two versions of the 10-Wheeler.

http://www.grblogs.com/index.php/2007/11/08/bachmann-10-wheelers?blog=4

Most questions you may have should be answered.

Should note that George Schreyer's excellent site, referenced in a posting above, contains one small error in addressing the 10-Wheeler.  George lists the Anniversary locomotive as having a version 6 drive train.  The difference being cited is that the Annie has a 7-pole can motor.  This is incorrect.  Both the standard and Annie locomotives have 5-pole can motors.


One of the "Enthusiastic Children"

JD


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Craig on August 13, 2009, 04:11:57 PM


...Most questions you may have should be answered....




One of the "Enthusiastic Children"

JD

JD,

Mine certainly were. That is quite a reseource and I thank you for providing it.

Craig


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Barry BBT on August 13, 2009, 11:38:41 PM
I have never had a need to put the siderods in a tumbler.  The laser cut is very finely finished.  I ad some detail,  re-drill each journal opening and re-drill a hole to tap for a ss bolt head for some relief.  Have been using these for about 15 years.  Also have them for my 2-8-0.

Re Plastic siderods, I started having the siderods laser cut when I noticed my drive was causing the plastic sideords into a "S" wave.  Further, the Bachmann siderods were no longer meeting "my" specs.

Plastic siderods are a weak link if the siderods are used to transmit power to other axles.  The LGB Mogul used siderods just as floaters, both of their drivers were geared.  In fact one of the rodpin openings was oval, none of this is a problem, just a difference.

If anyone would like a picture of my siderods send me an email and I'll respond with a photo.  Also have replacement  mainrods (two styles) crossheads and crosshead guides.  All in magnesium bronze, tough stuff.
These are for the the Plus series Big Hauler, not the Annie.

Barry - BBT
   


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: armorsmith on August 21, 2009, 09:30:30 PM
Barry,

I wish I had found this thread before I purchased two of these lokeys.  The one is a 'B&O Royal Blue Lines' and the other is a 'Durango and Silverton' in the Bumble Bee paint.  References to Versions 1 thru 5 and 'Plus' series have been made. I do not have the Bachmann numbers on these (unless they are in the secret compartment). 

The B&O is used, the Bumble Bee is in it's original styrofoam packing.  Both were purchased on eBay for reasonable dollars.

Thanks for any help.

Bob Cope


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Barry BBT on August 22, 2009, 01:33:19 AM
I guess the easiest thing to define is the Royal Blue, I don't think it has changed over the years and has never been marketed as an engine alone, always in sets.  The set number in 2001 was 90016.

The bumble bee has been sold singly and in sets, but this is easier the early "Plus" type loco (plastic valve gear) was cab number 177.  The ANNIE version is 178.  This is casual, but should work out.  There may have been some other numbers along the way and in the future, but these should work for now.

Barry - BBT


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: armorsmith on August 22, 2009, 12:01:38 PM
Barry,

Thanks for the quick reply.  The Bumble Bee is the #177, and base on other posts and other very informative web sites, I should get a good bit of service before major overhaul.

As for the B&O, would a picture of the bottom with the cover removed be of assistance getting a closer definition of which drive I have?

Thanks,

Bob C.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Barry BBT on August 22, 2009, 02:15:07 PM
Maybe, I can help.

The fully flat bottom plate is used on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd series drives.
The fourth drive had a bump (for gear clearance) exactly in the middle of the plate and on the third drive axle.  The 5th generation has a bump on the third axle, but off to one side.

The fourth gen gave us great promise but didn't work out.  The third gen must have the motor tied down with the wire tie.  The fifth gen will serve you very well, just don't over load it. 

If you want to pull more than 6-8 cars consistantly and go up and down hills, talk to me.

Barry - BBT


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: armorsmith on August 22, 2009, 03:50:19 PM
Barry,

Thanks for your input again.  It appears that the B&O is a first, second or third gen as it has the flat bottom plate. I just finished reading George's pages on this and will be opening it up in the near future to recon the necessary work.  This is only intended for a short 3 passenger consist, and the Bumble Bee is going to have a 6 care consist.  We usually run at traveling shows where all the track is flat on concrete floors, so no grades to deal with.  If I run at the club layout, we designed it with max 1.5% grades which are fairly mild.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob C.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Barry BBT on August 23, 2009, 01:47:21 AM
Since we know what we're working with, let's see what we can do.  First, the motor must be "tied" down.  Most important.  This involves the motor,  loco weight, a wire tie and the  motor. 

Once this is done, you are ready to run, just don't get crazy.

Barry - BBT 


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Loco Bill on August 28, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
Your Durango & Silverton 4-6-0 #177 came only in set 90058 which was the passenger set.  D&S locos have to date not been available as a seperate item.  It is a version 5 chassis.  D&S 4-6-0 #179 from the freight set 90057 is also definnitely a version 5 chassis. 

There is always risk in buying on Ebay!  I heard from more that one source that some bought the D&S set to get the version 5 loco and used it with the older D&RG Bumble Bee tender.  They then took the older early version Bumble Bee loco and put it with the newer D&S tender and put them up on Ebay to get rid of them along with the cars, apparently making a good profit in the process!!


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: armorsmith on August 28, 2009, 06:07:52 PM
Barry,

After inspecting the insides of the B&O, the motor appears to be solidly 'glued' to the side framing of the gear enclosure.  George's site comments about this possibly failing under heavier usage due to motor heating.  Knowing this going in, I can keep an eye on it after each operating session until I get a better idea of how this will stand up.

Bill,

I purchased the D&S 10 wheeler from Al Kramer, who is supposed to be a very reputable person, so I am not too concerned over swapping, although that is good information to know.  Is there an easy method to know if this has been done?

Thanks to both,

Bob C.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Loco Bill on August 28, 2009, 06:25:57 PM
Bob,  You are almost always safe with Al,  He will always tell you if he is selling used stuff.   
Al Kramer does buy and sell collections.  If he is selling a collection even with Al it is best to know what questions to ask.  If he buys a hobby shop or distributor inventory,  you must ask questions, because the stock may be old.   Example the latest run freight cars have metal wheels, but the early runs do not.   It is always best to ask if the item you bid on has metal wheels, unless it is stated in the description. 

Some of the guys have told me that they bought items on Ebay in the new boxes that have plastic wheels or even plastic wheels with wear on them.  They should have metal wheels after 2000. The car may have been new, but the wheels were not!!  Somewhere along the line someone swapped out the wheels, and it may not have been the seller whose item you won.   

It is always best to ask the right questions!!!

Cheers


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Don Pearson on August 29, 2009, 09:44:34 AM
I of course can not play at the same level as those who have had years of experience with the mechanisms themselves, but would like to comment on the details of this locomotive. It is actually a very well done copy of the Baldwin T-19s the the DRG ran. The Denver public Library has loads of information on all of the DRG loco's.
http://www.drgw.net/info/index.php?n=Main.DPL-T19
This of course is DRG 718, and with the exception of the whistle and light placement, is well represented in the locomotives offered in the Bachman sets.


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Barry BBT on August 30, 2009, 02:53:37 AM
Bob,

I always found a bit silly when finding the "glue" to hold the motor in place.

It is actually Hot Glue, which softens as the temp rises, internally (from the motor) or externally (living in Texas, Nevada and Arizona).  The hot glue softens, the motor moves.  But I don't damn good intentions.

Don,

The prototype for the Bachmann BH is the Tweetsie 4-6-0.  Lee Rilet sat on the restoration board of the E.T.&W.N.C. RR so had access to the loco to come up with the great rendering.  Don' I am not challenging your conclusions, simply adding what I know.

Barry - BBT


Title: Re: 4-6-0 Annie, older version. Worth keeping?
Post by: Alex Butner on September 17, 2009, 07:22:15 PM
I have a Royal Blue 4-6-0, it looks like a 3rd Generation locomotive to me. It was great but it died because I didn't know what I was doing and its motor fried.