Hi Everyone.
I think I am going to make the switch from the EZ track (eBay here I come) to a track without the roadbed included.
In the past (in the early 80's) I used the cork bed that you would split and lay down and nail. I see it is still in use now. I did not like it. I did not like it because I was not good at it.
While I was at one of my local Hobby shops yesterday they had a layout demonstrating the different types of building products. The demonstrated the cork roadbed, the black roadbed and an area with no roadbed. It looked about 3/8 of an inch thick it looked like it comes in sheets and is cut to suit your need. I failed to ask them what it was. As I was on the drive home I said to myself hey I could do that.
So here is my question.
What are the people on the message board using under their track? What people like or dislike.
Thank you in advance to all who respond
Robert
PS I as some of you may know this all started when I was having problems with my switches on my Offtrack. And on their People gave some good recommendation on what track to go to. Have been reading on what type of track people are using and I would not be surprised that is one on my next questions.
Robert,
I used good old fashioned cork roadbed and flex track (mostly). I didn't glue the roadbed down. I tacked it down with 1/2-inch brads. This came in very handy when I changed my mind in track placement (more than once). I have also used EZ track. I got some in my Acela set. I don't like waste, so I found a way to incorporate it in my layout. There are a few spots (tunnels and hidden trackage) where I used no roadbed at all.
Well, there's your first response...
Hope it helps,
Jonathan
Jonathan
Thanks for the information. I know I have said this before. But I love your layout!
Robert
Thanks, just don't look underneath. My wiring would make Jim write a new manual. Oh... I have seen an old Model Railroader video wherein a modeler made his own roadbed using 1/4-inch-thick wood (pine I think). It looked sturdy, but much more woodworking than I would be willing to do.
Regards,
Jonathan
my preference has always been for pine roadbed, but it is no longer made.
like you i have triad cork and didn't like it. i have also tried homasote and found that it doesn't handle temperature changes or humidity well.
right now, i am laying my track on pine board, without any roadbed. it is the most dimensionally stable, and strong, thing i've found thus far.
Jward
It was Homasote that they used. What part of the country are you in? Where did you have the layout? Do you have any pictures of your work on the pine board?
Robert
My track is laid directly on homasote. Works great
Quote from: Robertj668 on September 10, 2009, 09:00:43 PM
Jward
It was Homasote that they used. What part of the country are you in? Where did you have the layout? Do you have any pictures of your work on the pine board?
Robert
i am in pittsburgh, pa, where most houses have a cellar or basement, but it is often a cool damp place. it is usually not well heated in the winter, unless somebody is down there. that is usually the biggest room in the house, and most layouts in this area are there.
my current layout is in the living room as my current apartment doesn't have a basement. it is a much more constant environment as far as temperature and humidity are concerned.
don't have the photos posted online yet, as the latest layout is in the early stages of construction. i will post them to my flikr account when i get the time, of the various phases of construction.
Jward
We live in Keller which is near Fort Worth TX and our layout is in our front room. So I thing the Homasote will be fine here.
I am one step closer to getting new track.
Robert
Robert - I am now into micro layouts (industrial/switching) and no longer use roadbed. I glue to track (not the turnouts) directly to the Styrofoam via caulk. Should I change my plans, I can easily slide a putty knife under the track and remove it without damage.
My past two layouts (not micros) used cork roadbed. The secret with cork roadbed is to draw a center line down the middle of your track (if you have dry-laid the track just mark between the ties). After splitting the cork material down the middle align the nonangled side along your marks and nail or glue it down. The other piece is placed against the first and you are ready to install the track. One point: it pays to lightly sand the shoulder of the angled side so that ballast sticks to it realistically. Model Railroader has lots of information on reliable track and publish a booklet called How To Build Realistic Reliable Track. This publication has a section on quiet roadbed.
Hope this helps...try it on a small section of scrap.
Ray
There is a product available called Homabed that is basically 1/4" think Homasote with milled roadbed edges. It is also slotted part-way through so it will bend to curves like cork. Homasote's advantage is that it holds nails and spikes well, but is not as hard as pine or other woods. It can also be sanded, unlike cork, to deal with minor lumps and bumps. If you are concerned about expansion and contraction, paint the Homasote with grey paint after it is glued down and you should have no problems. There. Don't forget, though, that your substrate (plywood or whatever) may also be subject to moisture issues, perhaps even more so than the Homasote.
Thanks on the great input everyone. From the responses I am getting it looks like no on is using the One piece black roadbed? I like the idea on not gluing down the turnouts like Ray said I guess that is to help pull them up if needed and not damaging them.
I am looking at the Walthers Catalog and am dreaming of nice new track. But again I will post that later maybe tonight.
One thing comes to mind when I read these responses is that I am really glad my wife let me build the layout in the house and not in the garage!
So I thank my wife. Thank you Honey!
Robert
I have used two type of black, foam roadbed. They both came in rolls. One was like double sided carpet tape - apply sticky side down, strip off the paper, put on the track. The other required glue and for that I used the specific spray glue recommended. I do not recommend either of them.
On one, I used mostly flex track and two years later it is still moving around. The worst is at turnouts - even though the switch machines are mounted to plywood glued to the bottom of the 1-1/2" foam that forms the top of the table, the turnouts themselves keep shifting around, making maintenance a nightmare.
On the other, I used sectional track where possible and Atlas turnouts with their attached switch machines. This worked better but there was still some shifting where I used some flex track. After I ballasted the track, the shifting stopped. Unfortunately, the water spray and the glue/water mix seemed to facilitate the shifting of the the track and parts that were properly aligned in the evening when the ballast was applied were permanently gibbled the next morning when the glue had dried. Black Foam Roadbed 2, Jim 0.
My best results over the years have been with track glued to cork glued to 1/2 or thicker plywood. To save money for more important things (like new locomotives) I usually cut my own cork, and have found that square edges work just fine. And I normally use spruce sheathing grade plywood - it is softer than fir and half the price of sanded fir. I cut strips of subroadbed, typically 3" wide and set them on top of risers, making joints either at the risers or with scrap pieces glued and screwed on underneath. Cutting is a real pain with a keyhole saw, not so bad with a sabre saw, and easy with a band saw. If the joints do not align well, then I use a plane or a belt sander, the former if my wife is around, the latter if I am working alone (she doesn't like the sound.) With risers 12" apart, this subroadbed is strong enough to walk on, although kneeling on a piece of foam rubber over the tracks is more common. For a long straight, it is possible to put risers farther apart and put a strip of the same plywood on edge under the subroadbed. If a grade starts or ends on that long piece of subroadbed, then the edge of the support plywood can be cut at the radius of the vertical transition curve. Under yards, I usually use a single piece of plywood large enough for the yard. The last step of preparing the subroadbed is to draw the track centerline on it.
Once the subroadbed is ready, I glue on cork, usually with Weldbond. I spread it on the bottom of the cork and on the top of the subroadbed, spreading it with a scrap of cardboard or styrene. I like split cork because you can lay the edge of one piece to line up with the track centerline, then later add the second piece to line up with the first. I used to use sewing pins to hold the cork in place which the glue dried, many many of them. Then I tried bricks but they always seemed to be in the way when I wasn't using them and I could never find enough when I was using them. Besides it was hard to look through them to see if the cork was still aligned (where is Superman when you need him?) Most recently, I have been using a cable stapler for the job. This thing shoots 1/2" staples with an "omega" in the middle that is designed to hold video cable in place. They hold the cork down very well while the glue dries and the loop makes them very easy to hook out when they are no longer needed.
Cork does sand if you want to sand it. A piece of 60 grit sandpaper over a wood block does just fine. But white glue doesn't stick to sanding dust very well, so the next step, if you sand, is to vacuum up the dust. And finally it is time to lay the track. Make sure the ends of the rails and clean and bright and that the rail joiners are in good shape. I am a little paranoid when it comes to this - with used sectional track, I remove and discard all the rail joiners, clean the ends of the rails with a wire brush in a Dremel tool (USE EYE PROTECTION!!) and install new joiners. This makes soldering the sections of track together a real snap. Soldering joints is something I like to do on all curved track and most straight track. If the straight track is really long, I like to leave unsoldered joints every 6 feet or so to allow for expansion/contraction. With flex track, I always solder the joints before laying it on curves to assure that the rails flow nicely from section to section. But we are getting ahead of ourselves. When putting the track down, I like to spread glue on top of the cork and set the ties down into it. With split cork, it is easy to position the centerline of the track over the center joint of the cork (which is over the centerline you drew on the roadbed.) I hold the track in place with Atlas track nails driven in with a modeller's hammer or pushed in with pliers. This is where the spruce plywood really shines. It is soft enough to push the thin track nails into and strong enough to hammer them in. Sometimes there are no holes where I want to put a nail. That is what pin vises and small drills are for.
Next comes the soldering, adding feeders, ballasting, painting the rails, cleaning them, and finally running trains. But all that is a different subject.
Jim
Jim
I was ready to turn the page and then you said.. "that's a different subject" Well have to start that thread someday soon. I had to read the response a few time to soak it all in. Well I am sorry to hear about the bad experiences with the black roadbed and it looked promising.
I like the detail on how to lay everything down. I will have to keep it on hand for reference when I am ready. I need to figure out on the soldering thing with the track. I am no good at the soldering thing.
I noticed that you use Atlas track. I went to the Hobby Shop today they had Peco, Atlas, Bachmann and another one too. I like the switches on them. I guess Jim I guess that you use the under the table type of switch control.
Funny after all the this i am leaning back towards the Bachmann track again.
What I may do is buy some Atlas track with a switch or two and run the trains and take it from there. Yes that sound like a waste of money but it may be a cost saving idea too.
Robert
Robert,
Three years ago I knew nothing about the soldering thing. I am not great at it, but now I get away with it well enough that the trains run and the lights work. Hang in there, it's not that bad once you get use to it.
Regards,
Jonathan
There are lots of soldering articles on the web. The link below will take you to one of them. After reading up on soldering, the three most important things you can do are practice, practice, practice.
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/TechNotes/soldering.html (http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/TechNotes/soldering.html)
Jim
Jim
Thanks again. I think Soldering is something I can master. But first I need to get a good one.
When I have time I want to take a picture of my layout in progress so I can ask more questions later. I may make it a new post, not sure though.
I forget if I asked this before but I would love to see your setup if you have any pictures.
I just feel bad about asking so many questions on here. But I think of it this way. I learn a great deal from other peoples posts, so I am guessing other people are learning from mine as well. Now especially since recently I have hurt my neck and need Surgery on Wednesday and all I can do all day is sit and type.
Robert
Robert,
Don't feel bad about asking too many questions. There's no such thing. I have learned a great deal by just reading ALL the posts on this forum. Sometimes the most obscure topic, can be just the answer someone else is looking for. I remember getting my first DCC Spectrum steamer. It came with a small bag of black stuff, with not comment in the instructions. Found out that it's coal to add some realism to the tender, if one wishes. Read the answer on this forum, because someone else had enough gumption to ask.
Please, DO take pictures of your layout, no matter what stage it's in. I for one love looking at layouts on the net. I wish I had documented my layout from the beginning. Wounded Bear has provided excellent insight and photos on planning and starting a layout.
If you need help with photobucket.com, please ask.
Regards,
Jonathan
Robert,
This is a link for the Homabed already cut. Many modelers use this product.
http://www.homabed.com/site/890800/page/45029 (http://www.homabed.com/site/890800/page/45029)
Most use an adhesive caulk to hold it down and then also use the caulk to hold the track.
Jonathan
Thanks for kind words. I do like to read most of the posts too. Either I can help someone or I can learn something. My son and i are going clean up the table today and make it picture Worthy.
Malbloodhound
That is a great website. I had put finding a good website for this stuff on my to search list.
Robert
Well its 2 months later (Neck Surgery kept me a little quit) and I still have the Bachmann EZ-Track. But a new question has come to mind. The Bachmann EZ-Track is code 100 right? I am only having problems with the switches can a I use another manufactures switch? I know I would have to add roadbed. And I thought that to make it match I was going to put ballast on all of the track.
Now the next question.
If go for the complete redo shall I go will 100 or 83? I am leaning towards 100 as I understand from my previous questions that the older Rivarossi Engines do not run well on the 83.
I plan on using Atlas. I am not good with flex track so I am probably not going to use it that much.
Robert
PS I am excited to start my new "Two Story Farm House" But that will be in another post.
Robert,
What follows is strictly an opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
This is my first layout. I couldn't decide on code, either. So, half of my layout is code 83 and the other half is code 100. Many will say the the code 83 is more realistic looking. I'm no rivet counter. I notice that once the track is weathered and ballasted, they both look about the same side-by-side.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/DSCN0367.jpg)
That's code 100 on your left and code 83 on your right. Code 83 ties are spaced closer together, and that may give the illusion of greater distance travelled. Not sure I buy that.
OK, I also "feel" that the trains run just ever so slightly better on the code 100. If I ventured a guess, it would have to do something with the thickness of the rail and electrical resistance... all things that would give me a PD headache if I thought about it too much.
Wish I had a better photo of track to show you, but once the trains are up an running, who really looks at track any more. Something else to ponder. Not a sermon, just an observation... worth about two cents.
Regards,
Jonathan
PS. Don't be afraid of flex track. I used sectional track on turnarounds and flex track everywhere else. Worked great.
after using code 100 for most of my model railroading career, i've switched to code 83 on the latest layout. my dad laid his entire railroad with code 83 on the main and code 70 for yards and sidings. here are our experiences.....
you will have absolutely no problem attributable to rail size if you stick to rolling stock with wheel flanges conforming to nmra specs (rp25) which is the industry standard now. i was surprised, even the thomas locomotives and cars have rp25 wheels.
older cars with deep flanges are going to have more derailment problems regardless of rail size. if you have them, conversion to rp25 wheels is relatively easy. if you are converting your rolling stock to metal wheels you'll be replacing the older wheels anyway. invest in a truck tuner, as you may need to ream out a few journals to get the new wheels rolling freely.
from our experience, any locomotive which does not have rp25 wheels is going to be a questionable runner at best, often they will also have rubber traction tires, another questionable practice from the "good ole days"..... locomotives have come light years in the past 30 years or so, and i see no reason other than sentimental value to acquire anything that doesn't have rp25 wheels.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on September 10, 2009, 09:38:18 PM
My track is laid directly on homasote. Works great
When I was a very small boy--we're talking more than 40 years ago now--my grandfather built me a train table with the entire table top covered with Homasote. He laid the track directly on the Homasote.
About 15 years ago I tried an experiment in building a small layout. I lived in a small apartment, so it was hardly larger than your typical train set oval of track, but I covered the entire table top in cork sheeting. It worked fine, but it didn't deaden noise as much as I had hoped. This would probably not be practical for a large layout. When I moved I sold the layout really cheap to a coworker for his kids.
Jonathn
Great example of the difference. Code 83 does look better! Which one gets more derailments? How do you control your switches? I would like to run mine by DCC.
jward
Most of my cars have been converted to my 33" intermountain wheels. I need to find out what a truck tuner is.
Johnson Bar Jeff
In Texas I was unable to find Homasote so far But I will keep looking.
Robert,
Any derailments I USE to get were caused by incorrect coupler and/or trip pin height. Some trip pins would catch the rail coming across a turnout. I have since gotten a kadee height gage, adjusted my pins and couplers, and derailments are a thing of the past.
I am DC, so my turnouts are controlled by under-the-track switch machines. When I can afford it, I take out the old Atlas machines and replace them with Tortoise machines. My large passenger yard (8 tracks) uses a mechanical push/pull stiff wire set up (under the benchwork). I don't use them much, and couldn't justify the expense of all those switch machines.
And I have to admit, the Atlas custom code 83 #6 turnouts work much better than the code 100 turnouts. They cost more, but make a huge difference in smooth operations.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Wow the code 83 #6 switches worked better? Now I am more confused on which way to go.
We fixed the couplers. However I should check again.
I really do not want to switch from the EZ Track. I am kinda at the end on the line. I cringe every time the steam engines run over the switches. Will it derail, will it make it?
The diesels run great. But I do not want to have everything set up and glued down and then switch.
Robert
Robert,
I do not use EZ track turnouts. I have heard they are unreliable. However, I have used some EZ track connected to Atlas code 100 turnouts. EZ track lines up nicely with cork roadbed and code 100 track. I recommend the #6 turnouts, because they are easier on the locomotive--ESPECIALLY the steamers. The pilot trucks on my connies and 4-4-0s do not like #4 turnouts. They will work, but running results can be iffy. In this case the more expensive turnouts are worth the cost. My code 83 turnouts are strictly used with my code 83 track. You can mix codes, but it's easier not to.
Regards,
Jonathan
To Robertj668 : A truck tuner is the device used to ream out the inside surface of trucks where you install your wheelsets so that they run smoothly with minimum friction . Check in the Walthers reference catalog to find a supplier or check Micro-Mark website to see if they carry them. John II.
John
Thanks for telling what what a truck tuner is I need one!
Jonathan
Is your current layout EZ track and ATLAS Or I think it was a previous one. Did it look good? Did you cover the EZ Track with ballast?
Robert
My current layout is about 90% Atlas track, with some EZ track mixed in. I received an Acela set for Xmas a couple of years ago, and didn't want the track to go to waste, so...
Yes, I ballasted the EZ track. It seems to hold the ballast as easily as regular track and cork roadbed. In case you are wondering, you can remove the track from the grey plastic roadbed, but it is not EZ!
On the subject of truck tuners. I want one, have not found one yet. Not willing to pay for shipping that costs as much as the device. I have gotten away with this by keeping a small supply of four different kinds of metal wheelsets: Intermountain, Kadee, Atlas & Athearn. Chances are that one of those brands of wheels will fit just right in whatever truck you have. It has worked for me so far, but I still want a truck tuner, if I can ever find one at a train show or hobby store.
Regards,
Jonathan
To Jonathon : regarding Truck Tuner. Found on Micro-Mark website under "trains and Accessories" more model Railroad items, page 1 , "HO" Truck Tuner , Item # 82838 Cost : $9.95 . Shipping costs depends on where its going . I usually order multiple items of stuff whenever I order to get a better price. Good Luck John II.
Regarding E-Z verses Atlas Track : I find that Atlas track is more flexible in complex switching situations espcially yards & terminal areas ,you don't need elevated track for these areas . Bachmann switches include regular , #5, & #6. Atlas has regular , #4 , #6, & #8 in both Code 100 & Code 83 . Atlas has also a larger selection of crossings , in addition Atlas has a great set of track plans. John II
jonathan,
you are in the dc area right? the greenberg train show comes to your area. not sure if he'll be there, but we have a guy who attends the pittsburgh show who sells all kinds of tools. he'd have a truck tuner. alternately, there are undoubtedly hobby shops specializing in trains in the area. one of them would probably have them.
Jward,
Yes, I go to the Greenburg trains shows whenever they hit this area. I visit the "tool guy" all the time. That's where I got my height gage, my wheel cleaning tool, etc. The last couple of times he has not had a truck tuner. I will be hitting him up again in January, when the show comes to the DC Expo Center. There use to be a "motor guy" that also came to the shows, too. He stopped setting up a booth for whatever reason. I would love to remotor some of my older locos if the price is right.
I met one of the original owners of NJ International at the last show attended (the "J" in NJ). He sold it to his son, who moved the company to Arizona I believe. He and his charming wife set up a booth to help promotion for his son.
Regards,
Jonathan
i will be going to the pittsburgh greenberg show to-morrow.
the tool guy is one of our local hobby shops, from bridgeville, pa. i wasn't sure if he travelled or just did the pittsburgh show.
i like nj international. they make some of the most beautiful switchstands i've ever seen.
Let us know what treasure you found. Love to explore at trains shows.
Thanks,
Jonathan
There is a train show here in TX tomorrow. But I am not allowed to bring my wallet my wife said! I guess I could just go and look?
Robert
I am in the middle of breaking in my newest Engine a RIVAROSSI HO 4-6-4 NYC HUDSON. I have included a picture of it too. Well I have to say I am impressed with it initially. It navigating the track and switches beautifully. I ran it 20 minutes forward and now it is running 20 minutes backward. Now here is the great part. No derailments! I am impressed with the they way the Pony wheels (is that term correct?) are installed.
Though there is one problem it is Horn hook and it looks like to convert it to Knuckle couplers. I looked at the kadee website and it looks like it is going to be a bit of work. Well I also need to add sound and DCC too. The design will necessitate the Quick plug in the engine and a separate "sound" module with speaker in the tender. This is after looking at the diagram on line.
I may have to rethink "switching" from the EZ Track now. maybe.
(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac56/Robertj668/NYCHudson006.jpg)