Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => HO => Topic started by: 112040025 on September 16, 2009, 08:41:02 PM



Title: american 4-4-0
Post by: 112040025 on September 16, 2009, 08:41:02 PM
is the bachman 4-4-0 a good locomotive. i wasnt something that will last and something that will look good. is the disneyland set a good set? it is expensive in the catolog, but at target. om it is only 99 dollars.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: simkon on September 16, 2009, 11:01:08 PM
I don't think it runs especially well. And the Disney train set isn't especially good either.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: jonathan on September 17, 2009, 07:07:03 AM
I think the 4-4-0 runs fine considering it's low price and simple electronics.  I have two.  You can get them at train shows for considerably less than retail.  It is a little noisy and not as smooth running as a spectrum model, but it is a strong puller, considering its small size and price.  I pull up to nine old time cars (Mantua & Roundhouse).  I have made the old cars free rolling with good trucks and metal wheels.

Make sure the wheels are clean and all the mechanics are well lubricated.  The drive rods need a little conducta-lube on the crank pins.  This is not done at the factory for some reason. The track must be clean as well.  The headlight will flicker more than most locos as pick up for the headlight comes from only the pony truck (if I understand the diagram correctly).

These locos are not my everyday runners, but I enjoy running an old-timey train around the loop every once-in-a-while.

Regards,

Jonathan
I don't run mine all the time, but they are great for


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: CNE Runner on September 17, 2009, 07:59:01 AM
If you are talking about the 'regular' (DC) American 4-4-0, I would have to say they are poor runners. These locomotives feature an electrical motor in the tender - which powers the gear train located in the boiler via a driveshaft. My personal recommendation is to avoid these engines.

The Spectrum American 4-4-0 (Richmond) is definitely from a different galaxy. I own two of these excellent runners...and find them to be of the highest quality. The Spectrum units can be had with, or without, sound (all are equipped with DCC). As with all Bachmann products, it is important that you do not confuse their Spectrum line with their earlier toylike offerings. Naturally there is a considerable difference in price...which is well worth paying.

Ray


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: simkon on September 17, 2009, 10:05:55 AM
I am pretty sure he was referring to the "old-time" American 4-4-0 with standard DC, which does not run very well. Because technically the spectrum 4-4-0 is a Richmond.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: CNE Runner on September 17, 2009, 01:54:01 PM
That's what I figured as the 'Richmond' 4-4-0s are wonderful. Oddly, the older Bachmann Americans sell very well at train shows...go figure.

Ray


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: ebtnut on September 17, 2009, 01:56:20 PM
Just to be clear on the terminology, folks - American is the generic nick-name for any 4-4-0 locomotive, just as is Mogul for a 2-6-0, Consolidation for a 2-8-0, etc.  The Spectrum 4-4-0 is an American type locomotive built by the Richmond Locomotive Works for the Ma and Pa.  Richmond became a part of the American Locomotive Co. (Alco) along with about 6 or 7 other smaller builders.  


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: ebtnut on September 17, 2009, 01:58:19 PM
I suspect they sell well because, one, they can be had for a reasonable price and two, a lot of folks are attracted to these "old-timey" looking models. 


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Johnson Bar Jeff on September 17, 2009, 02:42:06 PM
I suspect they sell well because, one, they can be had for a reasonable price and two, a lot of folks are attracted to these "old-timey" looking models. 

Add to that, if you want a balloon-stacked, wood-burning 4-4-0, there isn't that much out there these days, other than what might be had on eBay.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: ebtnut on September 17, 2009, 04:26:10 PM
Jeff - You're right.  And also be careful; the old AHM Reno/Genoa models are about 30% oversize for HO scale. 


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: rich1998 on September 17, 2009, 04:44:40 PM
one time i saw a page by someone named harold. he had ways to make the bachmann old timer run really well. i guess the place is gone
lex


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Johnson Bar Jeff on September 18, 2009, 01:39:54 PM
Jeff - You're right.  And also be careful; the old AHM Reno/Genoa models are about 30% oversize for HO scale. 

Sure enough, but, frankly, that doesn't bother me. They are still the best-looking models of 1870s Baldwins that I've ever seen. And the latest versions that I've found, sold in red boxes with the Rivarossi name, are wonderful runners. I've had some bad luck with the engines sold by IHC, but I'm in love with late-model Rivarossis.

(For the "Genoa," you can recognize what I consider "late model" by the pilot being red and the presence of an an actuating lever connecting the whistle to the roof of the cab.)


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Terry Toenges on September 19, 2009, 12:27:13 AM
From a previous post refarding the 4-4-0 -
My mistake. It was 29 cars. Here's a pic of a plain old Bachmann old time 4-4-0 pulling the string of cars. The front half is headed up a 2% grade.
(http://www.sarget.com/jupiterand29.JPG)


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Terry Toenges on September 19, 2009, 11:36:10 AM
To add to that - The 29 cars it is pulling are stock Bachmann, Mantua, and Roundhouse old time cars. No special couplers or wheels.
The loco is stock with the motor in the tender from one of the Civil War sets.
I could even stop it and start it on the 2% grade part.
If anyone has any doubts - try it.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: FECfan on September 19, 2009, 02:26:08 PM
With or without major slippage?


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: BaltoOhioRRfan on September 19, 2009, 06:29:31 PM
i've got 5 of those little guys, both of the Bachmann B&O ones, the Jupiter, Winter Tyme Express, and the Disney one. All run just fine IMO. They will run at prototypical speeds no problem. (well my WInter Tyme Express one was bought used and i'm trying to clean it and give it some TLC. IT wasnt cared for that well. I might just buy a new one and swap shells)

Since they have traction tires on em. i dont think they would slip much with loads. Mine are limited to 4-5 of the Roundhouse Overland cars(B&O and Jupiter) and for Disney and Winter time they pull what came in thier sets.

I'm dying to get my hands on the civil war sets, and i almost had em to, both were sealed for $250 for both.  I had to run home and get some $$ when  i got back they were gone :'(  I wish Bachmann would redo these sets even if it was a limited time thing. I see on ebay a guy wants $450 for both....little high imo. Id say maybe $150 each at the max. i think the sets orginally only sold for $60 didnt they?


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Terry Toenges on September 20, 2009, 07:38:44 AM
slippage-
No slippage that I could tell. It's all in the traction tires.
Appearances can be deceiving. People have a tendency to judge the performance by the appearance - "Why that little thing couldn't pull all those cars."
The reason I performed the test was because of comments such as the one above.
The only complaint I have is that the 4-4-0's are a little noisy.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: jonathan on September 20, 2009, 01:11:05 PM
I agree, whole heartedly.

A little noisy, but otherwise a solid runner.  Can pull more cars than the prototype would have.

These poor little engines get a bad rap for some reason.  They are what they were meant to be:  an inexpensive engine that appeals to a broad audience.

They weren't meant to be Spectrum quality--apples and oranges in my opinion.  They're cute, they run, and they're a little fun.  I'll get off my soap box now, before I break into haiku.

Regards,

Jonathan


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Johnson Bar Jeff on September 21, 2009, 01:28:35 PM
To add to that - The 29 cars it is pulling are stock Bachmann, Mantua, and Roundhouse old time cars. No special couplers or wheels.
The loco is stock with the motor in the tender from one of the Civil War sets.
I could even stop it and start it on the 2% grade part.
If anyone has any doubts - try it.

That must be a record in tonnage!  :D

I bet the "original" rarely, if ever, pulled 29 cars.  ;)


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: CNE Runner on September 22, 2009, 04:53:58 PM
Jeff, you are so correct. If the N.D.& C's 4-4-0s ever pulled more than 10 - 12 cars Mr. Kimball (the Road Superintendant in the late 1800s) would have jumped for joy. It must be fun stopping 29 cars on a 2% grade with only one air pump and the brakies running across the tops of the cars. These old timers used saturated steam to boot!

Ray


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Johnson Bar Jeff on September 23, 2009, 01:18:32 PM
Jeff, you are so correct. If the N.D.& C's 4-4-0s ever pulled more than 10 - 12 cars Mr. Kimball (the Road Superintendant in the late 1800s) would have jumped for joy.

Being confined to a small "semipermanent" layout, that's one of the reasons I like 19th-century trains: A short consist still looks prototypical and proportional on a small layout.


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: CNE Runner on September 23, 2009, 06:29:08 PM
Good point Jeff. Now all I have to do is get you 'converted' to micro layouts! My Monks' Island Brewery micro is slowly taking shape, however the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut will arise from the ashes again someday...I love modeling the late 19th century!

Ray


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Johnson Bar Jeff on September 24, 2009, 11:30:08 AM
Good point Jeff. Now all I have to do is get you 'converted' to micro layouts! My Monks' Island Brewery micro is slowly taking shape, however the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut will arise from the ashes again someday...I love modeling the late 19th century!

Ray

Ray, if your "micro" layouts are switching layouts, I'm afraid conversion isn't going to happen. Running trains is one way I relax, so I just to want to "fire up" a locomotive, tie a consist to her tail, and watch her run. I'm afraid I'm not much interested in a layout that's going to require me to think while I run it; that would defeat the purpose of the hobby for me.  :D  ;)

Jeff


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: CNE Runner on September 24, 2009, 05:17:22 PM
I hear you Jeff. Micro layouts are generally switching operations...not your cup of tea. No matter as there are plenty of options within our hobby to suit everyone. I should mention that some of the concepts (sector plates and transversers) could be used on larger continuous run layouts.

Once you retire, from a very active live, you need some 'forced thinking' to keep the old gray cells active. I sure wish you lived closer - so you could help a 'buddy of the rails' engineer and construct two transfer tables (transversers).

Take care...'good talking to you again,
Ray


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: Johnson Bar Jeff on September 25, 2009, 12:09:59 PM
I hear you Jeff. Micro layouts are generally switching operations...not your cup of tea. No matter as there are plenty of options within our hobby to suit everyone. I should mention that some of the concepts (sector plates and transversers) could be used on larger continuous run layouts.

Once you retire, from a very active live, you need some 'forced thinking' to keep the old gray cells active. I sure wish you lived closer - so you could help a 'buddy of the rails' engineer and construct two transfer tables (transversers).

Take care...'good talking to you again,
Ray

That's very kind of you, Ray, but since I can barely hammer a nail straight, I doubt I'd be much help in construction!  ;D

Jeff


Title: Re: american 4-4-0
Post by: jayo on January 02, 2010, 11:47:31 PM
I have about 5.  Two are the Jupiter and 119, got them in the mid-90s, and were handled a bit rough.  I'm pretty sure they're out of commission now.  Other ones are a PRR, B&O, and the Lily Belle, which were acquired fairly recently.  I've been running them conservatively, inside the house rather than a garage.  They're somewhat noisy, but run very nicely.

I personally like the IHC/Rivarossi ones, but their worm shafts tend to pop out, disengaging them!  Although the Bachmann ones are not like those or the Spectrum ones, they are great recreations of those of the 1860's.  And with proper care, can run just as nicely!