;D Hey Mr. Bachmann how about something for us ICRR fans at least you could take the 2-8-0 and paint and letter it for the IC after all is based on a IC 900 class. Or a nice IC 2-8-2 in plastic. I mean it looks like you got the east coast covered and the West coast but like so many other companiies no Mid America.
(http://72.185.86.34/ftparchive/Steam%20Photos/2-8-2/IC%201512.jpg)
Stephen
in Mid Mississippi
You'll get no complaints from me Stephen! (heck, I might just buy up ten of the IC Mikes!)
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/IC_2106_Heyworth_IL_1953.jpg)
It's odd: the Bachmann 2-8-0 IS an IC engine, but they've never released it in IC paint. It's not like it'd be a hard engine to decorate or anything...
I agree Ray, Won't hear me complaining I can't really complain about the two old Hallmark gals I got in both run pretty good for their ages.
I was looking through some old pics last nighta saw a series of 2-8-0swith short vandy tenders where were these usedat on a all coal road?
Stephen
(http://72.185.86.34/ftparchive/Steam%20Photos/2-8-0/ic%20990.jpg)
Me too! Me too! (I know Gene, this makes about 425 times for me now ;D).
In any case, Stephen and Ray, I'd sure be glad to buy some Spectrum ICRR #1512s and/or #2106s when Bachmann gets around to mfg. them ;D.
And besides ICRR modelers, just think what NYC, UP, SP, etc. modelers could do with super detailing a Spectrum Harriman Mike!
BTW, I posted the most recent update photos of 'kit bash' progress on my Spectrum ICRR 2-8-0 #908 on a 'new thread'.
lanny nicolet
I sent an almost-exact copy of this a coupla yrs. ago! The pattern-maker for Bachmann copied- no, USED- making only a few changes- the Hallmark brass I.C. 2-8-0 in the creation of the Spectrum 2-8-0s. There are even file marks that are on both engines!! The primary changes are a.) the tender and, b.) the air pump/s. The Hallmark engine even came with a dome that was identical to the Bachmann dome. Not all I.C. steam engines had a "square" sand dome. I have two- one that looks like a Bachmannn, one with the 'square' sand dome. The I.C. (most of 'em, at least...) had the air pumps on the pilot deck. The Hallmark "900 class" Consols. were just bad models; the drivers(white metal...)on most crumbled from age or fatigue- theywere NOT sprung and ran fine... in reverse.
I also would be thrilled to see an I.C. 2-8-2; I have three Alco I.C. Mikes- They are terrible runners- or were- until they got the North West Short Line treatment. But I would buy at LEAST three or four... One thing for sure... we don't need another #$@%&## USRA Mike. But, with the 2-8-2 traditionally being the most-popular steamer, the I.C. might just be a great choice; I.C. modelers would love it, of course- but the freelancers would, I suspect, be in heaven!
The Illinois Central has been largely ignored by everyone for - well, since model railroading began. Hallmark did a 2-8-0 and a 4-8-2; Alco did a 2-8-2; PFM did two versions of the 2-8-4(pre- and post-war...)and Sunset did an "Illinois Centralized USRA Light 2-10-2.
Unfortunately, almost every loco the I.C. had was different. There were "1200 class" 2-8-2s that looked almost identical to some "2000 class" 2-8-2s... And there are two of the same class that look nothing like each other- or the others of the same class! There has never been a 4-6-2 that resembled one of the I.C.'s(...even though many were identical to S.P. P5s...) Modeling Illinois Central steam is a tough nut to crack- somewhat like those guys who built the F.E.C. "Keys" layout; Almost a dozen scratchbuilt engines later, they almost had a decent roster! If someone would make an "I.C. Kit"- a selection of 'square' domes, a sheet metal "I.C. pilot", and an airpump kit- pilot deck mounts with N.Y. pumps- I'll bet hundreds would sell.
But the original premise here is valid: Spectrum 2-8-0 with the smaller Vandy, lettered I.C. #909 would probably be 'good enough' for many of us!
Stephen,
The Vanderbilt tender was used for both coal and oil. C&O, B&O, and Southern all used Vandy tenders with coal bunkers.
BTW, I agree that Bachmann should bring out a Consolidation lettered for IC and the heavy USRA Mountain lettered for FEC - afterall, it had the most of them originally. It would also be interesting to find out who bought them from FEC.
Gene
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on April 27, 2007, 03:46:03 PM
I was looking through some old pics last nighta saw a series of 2-8-0s with short vandy tenders where were these used at on a all coal road?
(http://72.185.86.34/ftparchive/Steam%20Photos/2-8-0/ic%20990.jpg)
Hi Stephen,
When the IC bought these heavy 2-8-0s originally (941 through 993) they came equipped with those short Vanderbilt tenders. I have no idea WHY the IC got them, but I "suspect" that the engines were just Harriman-standard designs, and may have actually originally been built to an SP plan.
The engines survived into the 1940s with the Vandy tenders (they were delivered in 1909 and 1911), when most of the engines were scrapped or turned into 0-8-0s. The IC took the 12 best and turned them into the 900-911 series, which is what the Bachmann model really represents.
So for the money, Bachmann could release TWO different IC 2-8-0s: one with the Vanderbilt tender in the 941-993 series, and one with the conventional tender in the 900-911 series. Either would be fine with me!
After my latest chaos with two Hallmark 2-8-0s, I have decided to Dieselize the fleet and at least I did find some proper ICG cabeese like those used in the Mississippi Delta. The two Hallmarks, I dont know what I am going to do with them yet.
(http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/ccs/images/ccs1031.jpg)
Stephen
So what's wrong with the Hallmarks?
Gene
Well, where to begin, they were made in 1976 and not 1996 like I had thought. So the motors are open frame with a direct gear soldered to the motor shaft, according to alot of IC experts the sand and steam domes are wrong. They run like jack rabbits escaping a Texas wild fire other minor details are not correct. I asked my steam expert friend out in Texas to rebuild them and he doesn't even want to touch them and he builds his own locomotives also the driver centers are off square and made of pot metal according to him..
The only thing correct about them do you ask? The Tenders which everyone one wants but not the engines themselves.
(http://i8.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/98/2c/ca90_1.JPG)
Note not my photo or layout but one showing a brass 2-8-0 from the person I got them off of. At least the lettering and numbering is correct color. I once could of worked on the minor details and such myself but Ino longer have proper nerve control in my hands or fingers to paint and decal small stuff. I had to get a friend to take my LS 45 tonner home with him to repair because I couldn't even get it dis assembled with my poor fingers and eye site is getting justas bad 20/25 in my left 20/40 in my right and the eye doctor said "sorry son, I can't do nothing for it. here's the $1,500 bill for all those tests." How manyP2k 2-10-2s would that have bought? Where's my Prozac model trains are getting more out of budget and about as worthless as my meds.
Stephen
Running GP9's and 18s in ICRR Green Diamond shoving retired steam to the scrap line for now.
Note: I plan to keep the two brass spruce gooses in HO and do not intend to part them out, if sold they will be sold as a set.
:-\ Well my friend Robert told me not to give up on the two Hallmark 2-8-0s yet. So I don't know what is going to happen Steam or not steam dieselize or not. Decisions decisions.
Stephen
Stephen!
Don't give up on IC steam just yet! Bachmann makes several different engines that can be used to replicate as-built IC engines, as does Proto 2000. There are also a few other older plastic engines out there that can be used as "stand-in" models for various IC steam.
A short list looks something like this:
B-S 0-6-0t: 2501
B-S 2-8-0 w/Vandy: 941-993
B-S 2-8-0 w/plain: 900-911
B-S 2-10-2: 2900-3025
B-S 4-4-0: 223, 1201, 2100, 2180
B-S 4-6-0 w/63": 2341-2345, 5060-5065
B-S 4-8-2 heavy: 2400-2459
P2K 0-8-0: 3500-3569
P2K 2-10-2 heavy: 2900-3025
Athearn 4-6-2: 1179-1203, 2030-2099
IHC 2-10-2 heavy: 2800-2819
IHC 4-6-2 semi-streamlined: 1146
IHC 4-8-2 heavy: 2600-2619
And if you can find it, the old AHM 4-6-0: 231-244, 371-400, 2001-2030, 5001-5030
Most of the engines will work for stand-ins. For a bit more accuracy most will at least need their domes moved or changed, and their cabs changed. Those are the two biggest things you can do to ANY steamer to drastically change their looks. But even with just a correct IC paint job and some Champ decals, you can have yourself a pretty decent IC steam roster in no time, and for a LOT less money than what brass will demand.
Now all we need is a decent IC Mike. They "only" had 605 of them.....
And just think, Ray, (and all), if the ICRR had 605 Mikes, how many more similar style Harriman mikes would there have been prototypically if we add in UP, SP and other roads that used the Harriman style.
Surely, among the number of HO model railroaders who are looking for a well detailed, smooth running 2-8-2 such as is produced by Bachmann, either to run 'as is' or to use the 'kit basher's torch' on, there would be a sizeable market for such a product!
Hint, hint, hint ... to our good friends at Bachmann industries ;D
(Okay Gene, what's my 'count' now? About 450 ;D?
lanny nicolet
:) Thanks guys,
For the encouragement and thanks Ray for the list I got a B-S 4-8-2 in IC paint and it looks good. I guess in my steam world Paducah KY didn't exist pardon the bad spelling tonight had a very rough day health wise and really feeeling it tonight.
HMM, Maybe I need to model the Mississippi Central or Y&MV as separate roads from the IC. but finding a 2-8-2 this small impossible
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/4-29-07/DCP_2278.JPG)
Stephen
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on May 03, 2007, 10:07:54 PM
:) Thanks guys,
HMM, Maybe I need to model the Mississippi Central or Y&MV as separate roads from the IC. but finding a 2-8-2 this small impossible
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/4-29-07/DCP_2278.JPG)
Hi Stephen,
Your best bet would be to use one of Bachmann's SY 2-8-2s and de-Chinese it. Basically, strip off a lot of the non-American looking details, especially the cab, and paint everything that's red black. You'll likely have to change the tender too, but the end resuly would be a nice, completely un-USRA looking small 2-8-2, like those on the Mississippi Central.
One of these days I'll spring for one of the SYs and try my hand on a conversion. I know of one IC steam fan who's slowly working on one to turn it into IC 3969.
Hi Ray,
Just as I thought on the MSC Mike, but boy the MSC was one odd Railroad in ways running passenger trains at times with low drivered mikes and freight with high drivered 4-6-0s at times not to mention the automatic bells on the front of all locomotives except a few old 4-4-0's
I am kinda discouraged but I sent Champ a order for 5 sets of the ICRR steam decals now to get myhands to work with my brain again. or ummm Dig out the U33Cs I only have 7 of those lol. <watches out for chunks of coal being thrown my way now!> Here is another old MSC girl soon after MSC got her.
Stephen
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/YMV/Mississippi-Central-4-6-0-115-1930s1.jpg)
new Question I got a old IHC 2-6-0 painted for the ICRR is it even close to a IC engineI know the oil bunker got to go on the tender but would it stand in? Until I win some cash at the Casino and order my own custom run of IC Mikes LOL!
Stephen
2nd new question for anyone still reading this thread. What is the glaring defects of Bachmanns 4-8-2 besides the white ICRR lettering.
Stephen
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/3-18-07/DCP_2177.JPG)
Please note they got it wrong on the real thing as well at McComb, MS
Stephen,
Can't help you on the 2-6-0, but the photo of the 4-8-2 in McComb has the most interesting cab window I've ever seen on a steamer :D
Also, if that fire-box is painted silver (which it looks like in the photo), some one 'blew' it pretty bad for a prototype ICRR! (Or maybe they just wanted to 'pretty' it up ... along with the nicely painted white/ silver driver rods which also never existed, to my knowledge, on any ICRR steam locomotive). Ray probably can find some more.
BTW, Stephen that is one beautiful photo for 'kit bashing' detail under the cab. Do you have any others of under the cab piping, etc that are that clear?
lanny nicolet
Hi Lanny,
Thanks for the comments, I think they tried to pretty the old girl up some, because I have never seen alot of the items painted that way either. This fine old lady is at McComb, MS the site of ICRRs car rebuilding shops the largest on the line in the 1940s.
http://steve.bill--porter.com/photos_taken_on_march_18th.htm (http://steve.bill--porter.com/photos_taken_on_march_18th.htm) try that link for the photos I have so far of the little Mountain. I plan to get back down there soon and get some more shots. She only about 100 or so miles from my house on the old Yazoo &Mississippi Valley mainline to Yazoo City now the Yazoo District on the IC. I don't cuss so I wont mention CN :-X
Stephen
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on May 05, 2007, 12:43:24 PM
2nd new question for anyone still reading this thread. What is the glaring defects of Bachmanns 4-8-2 besides the white ICRR lettering.
Well, besides the detailing (which I won't get into here!) they screwed up the number. 2981 was a heavy 2-10-2, not a 4-8-2, which should be in the 2400 and 2500 series.
The engine itself should be OK to kitbash into an IC engine. I've got three of them sitting on my shelves, waiting to be converted into a 2400 and into two P&E (NYC) engines.
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on May 04, 2007, 05:43:27 PM
new Question I got a old IHC 2-6-0 painted for the ICRR is it even close to a IC engineI know the oil bunker got to go on the tender but would it stand in? Until I win some cash at the Casino and order my own custom run of IC Mikes LOL!
Stephen
Stephen,
Lanny asked me the same question. Good news is that the IHC 2-6-0 does look like a series of engines the IC had. The one at the Illinois Railroad Museum (which is incorrectly numbered!) is one that's REALLY close.
Stephen,
Those are FANTASTIC photos of the 4-8-2 details! I have them 'bookmarked'. They will be a tremendous help when I kit bash my 4-8-2s. Thanks very much!!
The next time you are down there, if possible, could you take some shots from the other side as well. Piping, cylinders, etc ... as well as maybe some shots of the top of the boiler ... showing the generator and the steam turret area by the cab? Maybe even a couple more 'close ups' of the piping on the pilot mounted air pumps?
With the price of gas, I realize that even 100 miles is a lot to ask ... but if you are down that way again sometime, I would really appreciate getting some of those kinds of detail photos. I live in central Iowa and that is a really long drive from Mississippi ;D
Again, Stephen, thanks so much for the great photos ... (all except the one of that funny looking black, red and white SD-40 ... very strange color scheme for the good 'ole ICRR :D)
BTW ... Ray, you are right. I did ask you about the IHC 2-6-0. I forgot (another 'senior moment'!) I have one torn apart to kit bash and stuck it in a drawer and forgot about it. You did send me a lot of helpful info on that one, too. Eventually it will get done ... after the 4-6-2s, 4-8-2s, 2-10-0, 2-8-2s etc .... :)
lanny nicolet
:)
Hi Ray and Lanny,
Thanks so much on the info on the 2-6-0 it figures locomotive I pay 15.00 for is closer than one I paid $300 for I guess Mr. Murphy is in town lol.
I did some close to home question asking concerning the 4-8-2 and her current state of mis dress. White lettering is correct for a very few and I do mean few Steam rebuilds at the end of Steam 1959. When IC ran out of the proper color aluminum paint and never did order more of the McComb shops.
Also I asked about the cistern cars in use on the IC during Steam he (former ICRR engineer) told me the McComb shops built two for a set of IC heavy Mountains like the one in the photo at McComb both of these were assigned to the two locomotives between New Orleans and Jackson and both carried the same number as the locomotive did. these were experiments when running IC's Banana and Strawberry dispatch freights to keep them from having to stop for water so much. Both were scrapped in 1960 one was used for a sand car at McComb and was wrecked when a runaway diesel hit it the other was returned to a normal IC tender. One of these runs almost cost him his life in 1955 when another train stopped in front of his Hot Shot and he rear ended a Centralia caboose. The locomotive I forgot the number wrecked and landed in a deep ditch he was trapped in the cab for over 6 hours, thankfully for him none of the steam pipes burst but all limbs were broken his right leg in 15 places. His last time in a locomotive cab came after retirement in 1966 when they moved the Mountain to the park where she sat for years. they moved her the reefer and caboose under her own power. ICRR 2542 was completely overhauled in 1966 before being given to the city.
Now Lanny on the silver paint. Yes it is the wrong color but they didn't have $3,000 dollars to buy the proper fire proof Graphite gray it cost $500 a gallon in 1959 made by Dupont It took 6 coats ot cover the firebox in Graphite gray! the side rods are covered in a special weather proofing to keep them from rusting and it only comes in one color. The display manger said they are hoping one day to return her to steam since #2500 in Illinois is not complete in her piping and was not overhauled before going on display.
I will attempt to get more detailed shots next Sunday if my body lets me. And yes gas is a minor problem $2.85 a gallon down here for reg and my Dodge ram 1500 quad cab sure does love it lol but I love the ride it gives me just as much and wouldn't trade it in on nothing else.
Top side photos I can get from one side only and that is from a hill right beside the tracks and station I am not able to do any climbing I am missing half my right foot from a bridge accident on a short line in 2003 so the cane in the photos is a must for me and not a fashion statement lol.
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/3-18-07/DCP_2183.JPG)
Thanks guys for all the help ya'll have given me and the encouragement to continue on and not have a big Ebay fireside sale on 400 plus HO items mostly IC or ICG and 100+ in G . Pardon any typos ithas been a long long day.
Stephen
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/SP745/DCP_1118.JPG)
Heres a live one, I call it the future meets the past, a father and son watching a 1920s SP 2-8-2 steam into Vicksburg , MS in 2003, when I get down and depressed I load these shots I know our hobby is safe I saw it in the little boy's eyes and him asking "Daddy when we get home can I play with Thomas?""
Oh and for all the steamboat lovers like me"steam Saluting Steam"
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/SP745/DCP_1225.JPG)
SP #745 salutes the Mighty Mississippi Queen in 2003, can we say I had a personal moment of wiping tears from my eyes from a 28 year old. One old timer just smiled and looked atme "Yes Son it brings back memories for me too I haven't seen this in Mississippi in over 60 years.
once more guys enjoy. Oh Lanny my Birthday is May 15th I wll accept a modified 4-8-2 in exchange for all these photos 8)
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for all the info on #2542. She is a real beauty. 500.00 per gallon of firebox paint! Wow! Never again will I complain about the price of a gallon of paint for our house!
I can understand the 'why' of the paint colors better now ... she is in beautiful condition. What a 'trip' that would be if they could get her back into running condition. A 'fan trip' pulled by an ICRR Mountain ... wow!! ... now that would be worth a drive from Iowa to Mississippi! ;D
Thanks so much for all your efforts, but take care of yourself, Stephen. Any shots you get, and whenever, will be greatly appreciated. I am thinking mostly of the drivers, piping, front to rear from the opposite side of the photos you have. Those shots will show the mechanical lubricator and correct piping, etc. I have downloaded all the #2542 photos you posted, and placed them in my 'ICRR 4-8-2 details' folder. They are all beautiful shots ... the closeup piping details under the cab are about the best I have ever seen.
Don't worry about boiler 'top' shots more than what you can get easily without doing any damage to yourself!
Sorry I can't help you with a 4-8-2 trade for the photos, but contact me off line.
The steam locomotive passenger train with the steam boat is incredible. Thanks, Stephen, for sharing them. I sure would encourage you to stay with model railroading and rail fanning!
best regards
lanny nicolet
Hi Lanny,
I will do my best next Sunday if body and weather are with me. I just got in some proper ICRR caboose trucks for two AMB wood cabooses I built awhile back one has been fully decaled and built the other is in just a simple plain jane red to simulate a Y&MV caboose once I get the proper decals done.
Been busy building 12 MDC 3 bay offset hoppers for the IC in the black Main Line of Mid America scheme from the 1950s and 60's.
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/my-models/DCP_0769.JPG)
I might not have proper steam but darn it I got the rear end covered lol.
Yeah Locomotive paint is not cheap. Two gallons of ICRR black $1,600 dollars in 1998 when we had to touch up a GP38 after a little mishap on the short line. Thankfully on the Mountain the ICRR donated most of it when they repainted the old girl but ICRR no longer had any graphite in their paint locker. Plenty of black plenty of white but no Graphite in 1999 or so.
I am currently working on two Walthers IC 50 Sieco Woodracks in the modern scheme down south we gottahave wood racks on the locals lol and Boxcars full of cotton.
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/my-models/DCP_0767.JPG)
Well I guess it is time for a new paint job and new lettering, might wait until my friend Rob pays aa visit to bring my GM&O Gp38s back.
Stephen
Here's the latest complete IC project for my non prototypical IC line a prototypical IC wood Caboose for the Mississippi Division in case anyone missed it on the other link.Those Tichy trucks are picky until I added intermountain Metal wheels I might have to send in my plain Jane caboose to my friend Robert to decal and repaint for me.
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/my-models/DCP_2325.JPG)
He's the one that did the custom paint and lettering on this one for me.
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/my-models/DCP_0769.JPG)
Theplain red one in the photo the other wood cab is a old MDC kit
Stephen
:D Headed South to McComb now and back to the 4-8-2 will post photos when I get them.
Stephen
I've been out of town so much I almost missed this string. There are all sorts of options for the IC modeler of steam - more now than at any time previously except for a few brass models from a generation back.
I think an important point is that the field needs a good Harriman 2-8-2. I've been looking at IC mikes a lot of late along with Central of Georgia's Harriman 2-8-2s some of which came from the IC.
Since the IC owned more 2-8-2s than most other lines such an engine would make sense. Add in the UP, SP, C of G, and several other roads with similar engines the Harriman mikado should be a challenger to the endless stream of USRA 2-8-2s.
So, once again, Bachmann, do seriously consider the Harriman 2-8-2 offered with changeable domes, tenders, and a choice of 63 or 57 inch drivers.
Incidentally, the IC's 900 2-8-0s employed the Harriman boiler, but the drivers were larger than those used by the UP or SP.
George Waltershausen