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Discussion Boards => Williams by Bachmann => Topic started by: Bill Mutch on January 30, 2010, 03:52:53 PM



Title: Just an observation!
Post by: Bill Mutch on January 30, 2010, 03:52:53 PM
I have noticed on all the forums I go to that there is a lot of people that like Williams now Williams by Bachmann trains and what is not to like! But what is so impressing is how there is almost never a slamming on WBB on all the other forums. If there is a problem it is always a easy fix. The Big Boys as they are referred to I think have missed something. Quality, not in all the fancy stuff, but, in just to keep them running. Yes, I to have bought the others and as they age problems come up and they get pricey to fix with that plug and play or through away mentality. I keep going back to my Williams by Bachmann knowing that they will always work! I love this hobby and as I get older my hearing getting bad all the noise that the others make frustrate me and put me on edge. I know I can turn the sound off, but why pay for all the stuff if you're not going to use it. That also seams to be why the others get bashed. All the expensive hardware. My WBB stable has 2 steam, 2 ABA sets, and 8 other diesel engines and I love them all. Thank you, WBB for a great hobby!


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: IEP-NYC-PRR on January 31, 2010, 02:48:06 PM
I have been somewhat of an armchair modeler for the past 20 years and have only recently found a a medium where I can enjoy trains by more than just knowing I have them.  Do I have an elaborate post-war collection ...Nope!  In fact I only have 2 postwar engines, 1of which is a 2046 I was lucky enough to obtain about 10 years ago, and the other a 2332 GG-1 just recently given to me by the original owner.  Other than that I guess you could say that I have just about all 0-27 Lionel Lines or NYC roadnames.  I have been giving many items away to nieces and nephews since they are meant to be played with and run not immortalized in boxes.  I thought that by this point in my life I would have had a permanant layout, but it was not to be.  I have been fortunate to work with children and have a holiday layout where I run the above and 3 other trains for one and a half months from Thanksgiving till after the new year. 

Where am I going with this?  Well as the price of everything goes up it is all but impossible for some of us to afford a Lionel or MTH set.  But Williams has always been known for its reliable engine and cars and affordability.  Sure all the bells and whistles are great on the other trains but how often can you have all that noise going at once?  We all fell in love with the clickety clack of the rails and the lonesome sound of a distant steam engine.  In real world applications tarins do run silently except for the sounds of the wheels against the rails.  So while the latest design appeals to us all, for running, nostalgia and durability I am starting to think that you can't beat a Williams by Bachmann set.  They also have a beautiful look and descent trim.   


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Cobrabob8 on January 31, 2010, 07:02:10 PM
I agree with the two previous posters. :) Since I purchased my first Williams/Williams by Bachmann locomotive 5 years ago that I have purchased only one Lionel locomotive. And that was a traditional Lionel Lines 0-8-0. Everything else has been Williams/WBB. In my opinion, you just can't beat the quality or bang for your buck. Keep it up WBB, you give those of us who don't want to spend a fortune on trains an excellent alternative. Thank you.
Cobrabob.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: phillyreading on February 02, 2010, 12:21:02 PM
I have no complaints with the quality of Williams trains. They don't have all the fancy features that brand L or M has but then that is just something else to go wrong!
My only complaint is the catalogs, being that over half the stuff in certain catalogs never gets made or is two to three years late in being made and shipped.

Lee F.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: ripley manor on February 13, 2010, 10:22:19 AM
I have 18 Williams/wbb units. the value for money is the best. I only have one mth loco to buy(only because it is only made by mth) then it is back to wbb for the rest. I also have a large collection of Bachman Branchline British outline equipment. It to is great value for money. Bachman products are like my Mack truck. Runs for a lifetime!


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: MAPA JCT on February 19, 2010, 10:45:19 AM
.....better words have never been spoken....... ;D

Marty, MA&PA JCT


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: TrainManDan on June 19, 2010, 02:12:07 AM
I completely agree. I've loved trains since I was a kid and have always had this preconceived notion that Lionel or MTH is the best and not to settle for less. Unfortunately, all I can ever do is look at these trains- I certainly can't afford it. For instance, I've wanted desperately to purchase a scale Hudson. Not gonna happen with Lionel and my wallet. Then WBB comes along with these beautiful, affordable, durable lines and it's like a dream come true, especially for us younger and poorer model train enthusiests  ;D

This hobby lets us come home and engineer anywhere from trains we've always wanted to see in person but never will, to what we see every day. I hate that it can be so unaffordable. Sure, go buy a mint 700e from the 50's and put it up on your all in a case- might as well scrap it like the rest of them were.

If it wasn't for Williams, I wouldn't have a chance at the locos and sets I want to start!
Sorry, kind of a rant.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: DominicMazoch on June 19, 2010, 10:19:34 AM
Well, I can get 3 of WBB's from Marty's MA and PA for the price of one L or M electronic engines.  And WBB don't seem to go into Gomez Addams mode:  Move 6 feet, click, click, blow up!


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Mike_AA9ZY on June 19, 2010, 03:17:42 PM
I agree! I love my sharks, FA-1's, BL-2, FM Trainmaster, and UP Heritage engine. Marty, I may be calling in another order in a month.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: phillyreading on June 27, 2010, 07:50:14 PM
Well, I can get 3 of WBB's from Marty's MA and PA for the price of one L or M electronic engines.  And WBB don't seem to go into Gomez Addams mode:  Move 6 feet, click, click, blow up!

To add to the man before me, I had a Lionel caboose with lighted interior give me problems, That's Right a Lighted Lionel Caboose giving trouble. I was using it with DCS and running a PS-2 engine when I started noticing problems, I thought the MTH engine went bad but it was the caboose's center rail pick-up that shorted out. Checked on repair parts for the caboose, $35.00, all I paid for the caboose was $35.00 originally! So guess what don't get repaired.

Lee F.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Joe Satnik on June 28, 2010, 03:01:12 PM
Dear All,

Question of the year....

Can 3rail handle all these compliments?

The quality of MTH's Rail-King cabeese vary wildly.  I have an excellent Chessie bay window, and a poor NYC woodside, whose item numbers are only a few digits apart. 

The shorting on my woodside was caused by the magnetic uncoupling "thumbtack" touching the center rail.   If the uncoupling pin does not re-seat perfectly (is off-center) after you uncouple, it holds the "tack head" down to the middle rail.  The shorting path is the center-rail, tack head, uncoupling lever, die-cast truck, wheels, and outside rails.  Ka-Zap.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Bill Mutch on June 28, 2010, 08:13:56 PM
I have bought from Marty. Great Williams  Dealer! His deals are good but his help and customer satisfaction is great! I like Williams by Bachmann for what they are, post war Lionel with the newest tech with out the junk. Marty ( MA & PA Junction ) one of the best.
    I have no dealers in the area.  Some say they are but carry one or two engines and maybe a passenger set but that's it. I like the internet dealers like Marty! Thats my connection.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: phillyreading on June 29, 2010, 03:26:45 PM
Joe S.

I don't know for sure what caused the problem with my lighted Lionel caboose, the plastic melted around the center roller, guess it had tooo much free play or movement. I am staying away from newer Lionel as I keep having problems with the new stuff.
 
Another problem I have is with the Lionel 6-23010 O gauge switches; none of my Williams(before Bachmann) engines can make it through one of those switches!! Also the same switch loses power to the track intermitantly, acts like a flashing unit is inside the switch connected to the center rail power. I called Lionel and their reply was ""WE" never heard of any problems with this switch".
Williams customer service department(about four years ago, when it was only Williams) told me to "Get rid of those Lionel switches! They(the 23010's & 23011's) are flawed in design."

Lee F.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Joe Satnik on June 29, 2010, 05:18:04 PM
Dear Lee,

I notice those switches are no longer cataloged.

Well, looking at this,

http://www.trainz.com/popup.aspx?src=images/product/large/180657_1_.jpg

A couple of observations,

No need for the "rails" near the frog to be grounded, as the outside stock rails do that job.  

You wouldn't want them grounded anyway, as the "hot" center roller has to bounce over them.

There is about 1-1/2" of roller travel that there is no connection to the center rail.  

That means that the other pickup on the engine has to be working perfectly.  

The center rails beyond the frog should (must) have a solid electrical connection to the center rail "island" on the points end.  That's not all that hard to fix, though. Just fix the stock connections (foils?), or connect a wire from the points end of the turnout to the other ends, or use power "lockons" near the other ends.    

Another problem could be the "back to back" of the wheels being too tight, shorting to the blunt end of the center rail island.

If the loco's center rail pickups are not right below the bolster, there is a little bit of side travel on a curve.  It shouldn't be enough to prematurely drop off the center island of the switch, though.  

You can check your pickups by temporarily taping (or jamming) one up at a time and running along regular track.

Another possibility, center rail too high, shorting to bottom of loco.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Edit: Changed "above the bolster" to "below the bolster".


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Joe Satnik on June 30, 2010, 02:17:03 PM
Lee,

Another (perhaps simpler) way to check your loco's center rail pickup rollers:

Measure the distance between the two rollers.  (Guess 5" or so.)

Cut a piece of electrical tape 1 inch shorter than that distance. (Guess 4" or so)

Cover the top of the center rail of the test track with the piece of tape. 

Place the loco behind the tape and run your loco (under power) over the tape until it clears the tape. 

It should not stumble or stop. 

If it stumbles or stops, the bad pickup is the one on the bare center rail.

Clean off any tape residue when done.   

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik   



Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: phillyreading on July 09, 2010, 03:40:51 PM
Joe S.

Thank you for the information.
One thing that I should mention is that there was only one center rail roller pick-up on my lighted caboose that shorted out.
About the Lionel 6-23010 series switches, I used the corrective measures in CTT mag & O Gauge train mag and still that didn't help me with my Williams engines going through the switch. Fixes that I tried were extra piece of copper soldered to the center rail area of the switch to prolong the center rail area of contact, the other fix I was told to do was to use a piece of copper at the curved section of the switch to keep the SD-45's from derailing when going through the switch.

Lee F.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Joe Satnik on July 09, 2010, 11:14:09 PM
Dear Lee,

Check the back-to-back on your wheels.  1.090" +.003 -.005

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/S-4.3%202010.02.24.pdf

Check the turnout's dimensions:

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/S-3.3%202010.02.24.pdf

My main concern is that the back of the wheels are arcing-sparking to the center rail island. 

To repeat my earlier observation, the "other" center pickup roller has to be in perfect operating condition, as the roller traversing the turnout loses contact for at least 1/2".  It follows that the center rail island does not need prolonged contact with the roller, so it could actually be shorter/smaller than it is.  Lengthening it actually hurts things, as the back of the wheel could come in contact with (short to) the blunt end of the island as it passes....

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: r0gruth on July 10, 2010, 02:01:37 PM
I realize that this is a Bachmann forum and I also like Williams products by anybody.

I have locos made by Williams,Lionel,K-Line,K-Lionel,RMT and Atlas.No MTH.

Now I only have 19 locos but I have had the strangest thing happen,according to many forum posters.Every one of my locos,even the ones with TMCC,worked when I got them out of their boxes and put them on the track.Every one of them.This has been happening for five years now.What am I doing wrong?

None of my locos cost over $300.00.


Yes this is tongue - in - cheek.But I do wonder.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: phillyreading on July 14, 2010, 02:20:45 PM
Roger,

Most modern day engines, except MTH, do not have a battery installed for any reason. The only Lionel engines to use a battery were in the post WW2 era, from 1946 to 1969, and that was for the horn.
K-Line has a freight car or two that has a set of batteries installed but that is for a sound recording to be played back.

Lee F.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: OGReditor on July 18, 2010, 10:36:26 AM
Roger,

Most modern day engines, except MTH, do not have a battery installed for any reason. The only Lionel engines to use a battery were in the post WW2 era, from 1946 to 1969, and that was for the horn.

Not quite true.  I bought a new Lionel Mikado recently and it uses a battery mounted in the tender (not supplied with the locomotive).  I imagine there are plenty of other examples, as well.

Truth be known, I'm not a big fan of batteries in locomotives for any reason.

Allan


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: PRR MAN on July 18, 2010, 05:01:47 PM
I HAVE A GREAT COLLECTION OF PREWAR AND POST WAR LIONEL TRAINS.
   I HAVE 1 A+A SANTE FE ALCO PA SET OF MTH I BOUGHT ON E-BAY FOR ABOUT 1/2 THE GOING PRICE BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT ON MY LAYOUT I RUN  WILLIAMS LOCOMOTIVES, THEY ARE GREAT LOOKING AND ARE RELIABLE  I HAVE SEVERAL ABA SETS, 3 GGI'S  2 TRAINMASTERS,  3 SETS OF 72 FT PASSENGER CARS AND 3 EF-4 LOCOMOTIVES, DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ALL THAT ELECTRIC GIZMO'S GOING BAD. PRR MAN


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: phillyreading on July 18, 2010, 08:11:28 PM
Allen,

I am not that familar with recent Lionel, as most of their stuff is out of my price range for the current time. So I didn't know that Lionel used a battery in one of their newer steam engines.
Batteries in engines are just something else to go wrong!!

Lee F.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: r0gruth on July 18, 2010, 09:55:44 PM
Lee,

Lionel locos with TMCC have a battery installation but it is for sound purposes when not running TMCC.

I also think that you did not understand the point in my above post.


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: Bill Mutch on July 21, 2010, 08:22:13 PM
I'm not saying the rest have problems out of the box. I'm talking about long run! I have two dead engines that promised to run a long time. I don't mind putting in new e-units and dropping the sound but look at what you pay for! I won't a engine that will run on request Something dependable! WBB gives me that! The price is affordable to enjoy the hobby with out the extra cost for stuff I don't need. I'm just greatful that WBB is on my side!!


Title: Re: Just an observation!
Post by: DominicMazoch on July 21, 2010, 11:46:21 PM
I can go get a ham handheld unit which is mil speced for under $200.00.  These things can take abuse.  I expect a high end loco to have mil speced boards in them.   Or at least for them to be sturdy.

True, WBB is NOT mil speced.  But the e-units have held up well.  They don't go into Gomez Addams mode.  Not bad for the WBB price points.