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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vinny on April 30, 2007, 05:25:12 PM



Title: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Vinny on April 30, 2007, 05:25:12 PM
How do I get my EZ track power routed switches to perform right? I have a double oval with four switches on each side connecting them. I have only 6 insulated rail joiners on the layout(after showing my track plan to the guy at the local train store). I have the same terminal on each oval but when I try to switch the train into the next oval, it stops. I need help!!!! I want to get my layout up and running.

Thanks. :P ??? >:(


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: JerryB on April 30, 2007, 08:11:30 PM
Vinny:

The best answer is the same as Hunt posted in reply to the same question you asked earlier.

Quote from Hunt (with bold emphasis added):
"Get a copy of The Complete Atlas Wiring Book -- All Scales -- Book # 12.

"It has diagrams showing how to connect the two DC power packs to the rails so you do not reverse polarity and where to correctly place insulated rail joiners."

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Hunt on April 30, 2007, 11:12:37 PM
Vinny,
Without an accurate diagram of your track plan and how you have it wired, I and anyone else would only be guessing at what is missing or what you have wired or gaped (insulated) wrong.

I could not locate a Bachmann N-gauge turnout to see how it is wired. So if the turnout is power-routing type then study the diagrams in http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=181  (http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=181)
This article, however; does not help you with how and where to place any other rail gaps or connect any other power feeds necessary as required by your track plan.


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 01, 2007, 07:09:16 AM
I didn't think that Bachmann makes "Power Routing" turnouts in any scale. "Power Routing" means that electrical power is routed through the rails depending on which route is selected. (straight or diverging).

Are you maybe talking about "Powered" turnouts that have a "switch machine" attached so that they can be remotely operated?


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Vinny on May 01, 2007, 01:36:19 PM
The icon wasn't meant to infer that I was angry with anyone here, just my own frustration.

(http://)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Vinny on May 01, 2007, 04:18:03 PM
[img(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9797/trainlayoutlk5.jpg)img]


Here is my layout. I only have 1 insulated rail joiner connecting each switch(on the outside rail). Each oval has a power pack. The trains stops when I try to get it to the inner or outer oval. I hope the pic helps. Thanks again for your input.


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 01, 2007, 07:11:29 PM
If you place a loco on the inner oval, will it run?

In any case you have to have 2 insulators at each area where the inner and outer ovals meet. You must maintain 2 completely independant electrical circuits.

You need a total of 8 insulators and I have marked in white where they should go.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/msowsun/Trains/trainlayout.jpg)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Hunt on May 01, 2007, 07:18:27 PM
The Complete Atlas Wiring Book -- All Scales -- Book # 12, page 30 -- figure 4-14 covers cab control (use of two DC power packs) for a double track layout.

So back to the train store to buy or look at the book  ;D

You will see you need 4 additional insulated rail joiners, 2 Atlas Selector switches or the like and more power connector wire.

Wiring is simpler if you were using DCC instead of Cab Control.


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 01, 2007, 07:56:42 PM
"Cab Control" means being able to select which power pack controls which section of track and being able to switch back and forth. It is the best way to allow trains to go from one electrical block to another.

But you can operate without it as long as both your power packs are set to the same direction and approximate speed as the loco crosses from one oval to the other.

Do you plan to run more than one train?

If so you may want to be able to turn off the power to one siding or area of track. This is also done with insulators and a switch to turn on and off the feed to that section of track. In this case you can get away with just insulating one side of the track.



Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Hunt on May 01, 2007, 11:56:54 PM
Msowsun ball is now in your court.  :)

Vinny,
Try msowsun's suggested method of only placing insulated rail joiners on both rails of the turnout’s divergent route (per his markings on your layout photo) and let him know what happens as you run two trains.   ;)





Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 02, 2007, 09:31:59 AM
Vinny,

Do you have your trains running yet?




Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Teamanglerx on May 02, 2007, 03:56:01 PM
Vinny's problem is a real one.  I have run into a similar problem with one switch on my layout.  EZ Track switches ARE power routing and therefore need insulators at certain points.  My train will run fine but if you throw a switch and not have power routing to the rail your train is on it will stop.  In every train book I have seen it says if you have a power routing switch you have to insulate it.  I currently use one train and one power pack but will need to use insulators in a couple of places to ensure proper power.


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Vinny on May 02, 2007, 05:02:01 PM
I went to the train store but no book!
I do plan on running two trains,provided I can get this problem fixed.
My train does run on either oval.
I appreciate everyone's assistance with this issue. I will keep you posted of my progress. Every time I post here, everyone has done a great job of giving me advice. I value your experience with model railroading.

One more question: how can I get one train to go in the opposite direction of the other one instead of them both going in the same direction?


Thanks everyone!!!! :)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 02, 2007, 06:19:27 PM
If your train runs on either oval then what is your problem?



Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Vinny on May 02, 2007, 08:08:11 PM
The problem is that I can't get the train to go into the other oval;it stops when I turn the direction on the switch to go to the other oval. I put the other insulated rail joiners on but I have the same issue(see above). I was hoping I could get this thing running without having to put blocks and controls into my layout. I'm not electrically or mechanically brilliant. I'm so frustrated right now I'm about to just run one train and simplify my layout! I never had this problem with EZ track switches in HO(of course, they weren't power routed). :-[


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Jonathan MacCormack on May 02, 2007, 08:29:46 PM
Vinny,

Try calling Atlas for the electrical book or call Walthers. Either will send it along to you.

J


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 02, 2007, 09:02:18 PM
I don't believe that Bachmann EZ Track turnouts are "Power Routed" or "Route Selective".

BUT IF THEY ARE     then you must insulate the turnouts at both the straight and diverging tracks,   and then you must add extra feeders to various parts of the track.  The rule is that you can only feed power to the end of the turnout without the diverging tracks. The other ends must always be insulated or there will be a short circuit at the frog depending on which way the turnout is selected.

You will need to become quite proficient at block wiring. And you WILL need a good book....... 

I still can't believe that Bachmann would sell EZ Track turnouts that are "Route Selective".

ROUTE SELECTIVE TURNOUTS ARE NOT FOR BEGINNERS!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Jonathan MacCormack on May 02, 2007, 09:13:42 PM
Try turning the inside train around to run in opposite direction. Switching to the outside track while running opposite is difficult, however!

I am assuming two (2) power packs available.

This assumes you have blocked the switches as shown in the picture above.



Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 02, 2007, 09:57:07 PM
Vinny, I did some research and found out that Bachmann N Scale EZ Track turnouts are indeed . "Route Selective".

You will need to add a few extra insulators and 3 extra feeders. (6 wires)

You have some flexibility in where you put these insulators and feeders but you can follow this example and it will work.

Just remember that the feeder wires must only power the points end of the turnout. If you study this diagram you will see that the electrical power will always encounter insulators so that there is no power to the diverging end of the turnouts.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/msowsun/Trains/trainlayoutlk.jpg)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 02, 2007, 10:47:55 PM
Vinny, here is the diagram once more, but this time your inner oval feeder is removed because it was in a bad spot and required extra insulators.

By removing it you can simplify the wiring slightly. You just need feeders at 4 locations. (always feeding into the points end of the turnout)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/msowsun/Trains/trainlayout1b.jpg)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Hunt on May 02, 2007, 11:42:37 PM
msowsun,
Much Better   ;)

Thanks for taking the time to giving more thought to your first solution (with a little gentle prodding from me) and providing a corrected photo markup.  I don’t have the time and written instructions alone were not going to help Vinney at this point in time.

If you have the time, show what feeders go with which power pack and how to connect the power packs if you use two.

Vinney,
It is OK now you don't have the Atlas book. As you may recall from the first thread that started this, I told you, you would need to modify the turnouts to all routes powered if you followed the Cab Control for a double track layout wiring Figure 4-14 in the Atlas book.

Now that we reasonably know the turnouts you have are the power-routing type then I once again suggest you study the diagrams in http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=181  (http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=181) it should help you understand the why of msowsun’s corrected photo markup.

Remember DCC makes wiring and train control easier (and more fun) than using Cab Control Block.  ;D


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Jim Banner on May 03, 2007, 01:26:49 AM
This solution is not much different than msowsun's.  It eliminates a few unnecessary gaps and adds some closer to the turnouts that require them.  The advantage is that when you stall at a turnout, you will know it is that turnout that is set the wrong way.  But if you stall between turnouts, as with msowsun's solution, it is not intuitively obvious which turnout is set wrong.  I have Shinohara route selective turnouts all over my H0 layout and went through the same problems until I learned Lynn Wescott's rules for gapping route selective turnouts.  The gaps are shown in white.  The feeds from one power pack are shown in red and those from the other power pack are in green.  Note that all these gaps and feeders are also required for DCC operation with route selective turnouts.

(http://members.shaw.ca/the.trainman/trainlayoutlk5-mod.jpg)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 03, 2007, 10:12:53 AM
Is it possible that  Bachmann N scale EZ Track turnouts are "Route Selective" but don't require special wiring considerations because they are wired like Peco Insulfrog? (which are also route selective)


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Jim Banner on May 03, 2007, 10:38:29 AM
Is it possible that  Bachmann N scale EZ Track turnouts are "Route Selective" but don't require special wiring considerations because they are wired like Peco Insulfrog? (which are also route selective)

I wondered about that too.  But reading about Vinny's problem strongly suggests that Bachmann N scale EZ Track turnouts are non-insulated route selective ones and are at the root of his problem.


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: msowsun on May 03, 2007, 11:15:09 AM
But if they ARE insulated route selective, then Vinny's only problem is  that he has his feeds in the wrong position. 

That would greatly simplify the solution. 

If so then he only needs to have insulators to separate the inner and outer ovals for 2 train operation.


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Vinny on May 06, 2007, 09:04:45 PM
Yet again I thank you all for helping me and I will keep you updated as to my progress.

If I went to DCC, how do you control the switches?

Thanks again!!!!


Title: Re: Power routed switches in EZ track
Post by: Hunt on May 06, 2007, 11:33:51 PM
I note you do not have any of your turnout's switch motor connected to power.

Easiest is to use the AC terminals of your DC power pack to power the switch motor of an E-Z Track Remote Turnout. You line the turnout (move the Points) with the control slide switch included with the turnout.

Use the DCC to power and control decoder equipped locomotives.