As a fan of the C&O as it was in the postwar Superpower era (before Diesels and blue and yellow paint), I lean toward the big engines. But that doesn't mean there isn't a market for smaller power.
One additional engine could come from Bachmann's current production. This is the Shay, which could also pass for Sierra Railway No. 12. This engine was later sold to Standard Lumber Co., and later to Pickering Lumber. It's still around, in a safety-orange paint scheme at that!
http://www.ncry.org/roster/s_12/srr12.shtml
Baldwin and Alco rod loggers would also be something that might be considered. These 2-8-2's and 2-6-2's typically had 48" drivers--which, if I measured the model correctly, happens to be close to the size used under the 0-6-0T, which I believe has 44's.
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/LocoImages/Loco-0016-2.html
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/LocoImages/Loco-0018.html
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/LocoImages/Loco-0010.html
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/LocoImages/Loco-0021.html
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/LocoImages/Loco-0025.html
http://www.tidewatersouthern.com/contents/motivepower/steam/Baldwin_2-6-2_132/baldwin_2-6-2_132.htm
http://www.tidewatersouthern.com/contents/motivepower/steam/Baldwin_2-6-2_132/Sierra32Jamestown1/sierra32jamestown1.htm
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=312694&nseq=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=170780&nseq=0
One of the interesting things to note is the collection of subtle differences between Alco and Baldwin engines, most notably in domes. This applied to narrow gauge power as well, illustrated here with engines from the East Broad Top (Baldwin) and the Sumpter Valley (Alco).
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305965&nseq=6
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=300061&nseq=37
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=81311&nseq=19
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=81132&nseq=21
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=286081&nseq=2
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=221440&nseq=4
Domes are fatter, but they are still Baldwin domes on this modern, post-war 2-8-2 on the White Pass & Yukon in Alaska:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=297785&nseq=9
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=128925&nseq=75
Enjoy.
HOn3 is not my forte
In regard to rod logging engines, I forgot to mention the tank engine variants. Again, like the tender locomotives, these often used drivers in the 44 to 48 inch range, suggesting some parts (such as wheels, motors, gears) from the 0-6-0T that could be used to reduce tooling costs.
Some examples:
http://www.ncry.org/roster/s_02/q2builder.shtml
http://www.ncry.org/roster/s_03rd/rd3.shtml
Tank Mallet variation:
http://www.ncry.org/roster/s_04/cv4.shtml
Logging Mallet page; great reference!
http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/
One that runs:
http://www.1880train.com/
A large 2-8-2 tank; believe it or not, this same company rostered a similar-looking 2-10-2T!
http://www.sdrm.org/roster/steam/s-11/index.html
An HO brass model, very typical Baldwin prototype:
http://www.victorianweb.org/cv/models/glanville/locos/9.html
http://www.victorianweb.org/cv/models/glanville/locos/9b.html
Other stuff:
http://www.railroadpix.com/rrphotos/detail/551.html
http://www.railroadpix.com/rrphotos/detail/549.html
Another variant of the Baldwin logging 2-8-2:
http://www.orcorail.org/Locomotive_104.html
http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/oregon/oregon.htm
Vintage movie footage of rod loggers in action (commercial video preview); one of the engines shown is the famous (former) Sierra Railway 38:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmniR8ziNOc
Another commercial video trailer--but it still looks good, and explains part of what we like about short lines and loggers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzKnDZSP1mo
Enjoy!
how about a 4-6-4t or 2-6-4t like this, a commuter loco
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/ba-s0303vaa.jpg)
Quote from: pdlethbridge on February 17, 2010, 08:59:21 AM
how about a 4-6-4t or 2-6-4t like this, a commuter loco
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/ba-s0303vaa.jpg)
this is something I've been deff looking forward to having
B&M 2-6-0 Mogul. Pretty please?
Quote from: pdlethbridge on February 17, 2010, 08:59:21 AM
how about a 4-6-4t or 2-6-4t like this, a commuter loco
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/ba-s0303vaa.jpg)
I'll defiantly buy it! that and a 2-8-2T + A hesier!
One could make the case for a variety of 2-8-0s, ranging from small 19th century design engines like the PRR H3 and the stock small 2-8-0s used by the Ma &Pa (and the closest available model being the Athearn-MDC 2-8-0). My choice would be a combination of a PRR H-6-sb and a C&O G-7/9. Both of these engines had 57" drivers and a driver axle spacing that had a slightly longer distance between the first and second axles (originally to accommodate the rocker shaft from Stephenson valve gear), a minimal spacing between the second and third axles, and a longer spacing between the third and fourth for the firebox. Both engine series were in the 100-ton range, and the C&O engine seems to have become the basis of a stock Alco locomotive used by a number of roads, among them a West Virginia shortline called the Kellys Creek & Northwestern. This engine, their No. 6, would be sold to another road, the Buffalo Creek & Gauley, where it became that road's No. 13. That engine is still with us, and ran in tourist service until just a few years ago on the Ohio Central.
This is a neat site on the BC&G:
http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/
The left-side view below illustrates the driver axle spacing mentioned above:
http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/LOCOMOTIVES/No13/Loco13.html
A C&O G7, from the image gallery of the C&OHS; this engine illustrates a rebuilt version with a short, "sports model" cab:
http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-23890.jpg
A G9, still with its original cab:
http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-23910.jpg
Not shown are some 2-8-0s that got the tender Bachmann is bringing out with the H-4 2-6-6-2.
For comparison, a PRR H6:
http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/5/5d/PRR_H6b_2837.jpg
http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/1/1a/PRR_H6b_7758.jpg
Back to the BC&G; check out those Baldwin domes on No. 4. And the tender, as shown in a photo when the engine was new, not only looks sharp in its Baldwin factory striping, but also looks very similar to some Pennsy tanks. More possible ways to save on tooling costs, and prototypical, too!
http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/LOCOMOTIVES/NO4/Loco4.html
Want a prototype for kitbashing your Life-Like 0-8-0 to a 2-8-0? BC&G had one. . .
http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/LOCOMOTIVES/No14/Loco14.html
The comments about 4-6-4T, 2-6-4T, and other commuter tank engines suggests someone is interested in modeling Eastern commuter services. I can picture a very interesting layout based on this theme, featuring a big waterfront terminal with connecting ferryboats and lots of switches, including multiple double-slips. Talk about intensive operation! Coaches would rival freight cars in numbers on a layout like that. And depending on the prototype, plenty of Camelbacks on the job, along with light and heavy 4-6-2s.
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//march99/03-26-99/crd90597.jpg
http://www.trainutz.com/CNJ460camel.jpg
Canadian commuter power; I think CNJ had something similar:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trainplanepro/3599618922/
http://www.divisionpoint.com/CNR_X10.html
Check out this bruiser 4-6-6T on the B&A, with its visible kinship to NYC's 4-6-4s:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/themes/trc/common/viewimage.aspx?img=http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h182/CNJ831/BA466T.jpg&w=675&h=406
I've got to get off this Internet thing and work on a layout!
I like the idea of a 4-6-4 tank engine. I could definitly use a couple for commuter service.
a non-brass 4-6-4t or 4-6-6t like the Boston and Albany would be an awesome model to own, even in the freelance realm
I'd probrably have a fleet
I'd vote for the early Ma & Pa 2-8-0's, since that was pretty much a stock design at the turn of the century. Actually, the modern Ma & Pa 2-8-0's would also be a good choice, maybe both with and without the feedwater heater. IMHO, the commuter tank engines are a bit too specialized for the broad market that Bachmann caters to. I would also like to see a non-USRA light Pacific.
Glad to see plenty of the steam fraternity here! To paraphrase Thomas the Tank Engine, "Proper locomotives are painted black and burn West Virginia coal!"
Not likely to be produced, but possibly simple enough to kitbash or scratchbuild--more CNJ commuter power:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_cnj201.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj200sa.jpg
Note that there is a pilot visible at the rear of this one; actually, a common application on such locomotives, including tender engines in bidirectional service.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj224s.jpg
CNJ 4-6-4T; overall proportions suggest a kitbash could start with a 4-6-0:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj225sa.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj229s.jpg
Photos above came from this site; loading is slow but it's a good one for engine photos of all types from the East (and a few others, as well).
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/home.html
This one, from the Reading, was once available in N scale. The prototypes were replaced by electric MU cars in the 1930s.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pr381.jpg
http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014505
ebtnut likes early stock Baldwin 2-8-0s; here is one of the Ma &Pa engines he mentioned, although it is no longer so stock. Wonder what it would take to get the Athearn-MDC engine to look like this:
http://www.uncle-joey.com/YorkMail/roster/roster_engine_23.jpg
Another road with a lot of Baldwin 2-8-0s (and a few 4-4-0s), from a website that, like the BC&G site, could have a lot of inspiration for the modeler:
http://wayneshobbies.tripod.com/huntingdonbroadtop.htm
http://www.bbandbrr.com/hbtm/
http://www.bbandbrr.com/everett/index.aspx
A road that finished out with Baldwin 2-8-0s purchased second hand from the West Virginia Northern; both of the last two engines have survived, and are now under restoration at the West Virginia Railway Museum in Elkins, W.Va.
http://davecathell.tripod.com/preart.html
http://www.wvrailmuseum.com/
Another shortline in West Virginia, connected with the C&O; had, in steam, a pair of 2-8-0's purchased second-hand from the C&O and the NKP.
http://www.gottrains.com/winifrede/index.htm
http://www.gottrains.com/winifrede/photos/10-04.jpg
http://www.gottrains.com/winifrede/photos/winfrede-03.jpg
http://www.coalcampusa.com/sowv/kanawha/kanmisc/kanmisc.htm
Have fun. . .
Speak of the devil! On30, but it looks a lot like that CNJ 2-6-2 T.
http://modelrailroading.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/on30-project-rodgers-2-6-2t/
I donno why but Id like to see one of these in HO Scale...
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1847
B&O had something CLOSE on its commuter railroad up on Stan. Island NY.(i think it was Stan Island....might have been Long Island).
We can't forget the Sierra Railways #3!
I just came back from photographing her and WHAT A GEM! Very close to being complete again and running. Only Mantua produced something "close" and it was wayyyy to big. The next best thing were the Arbor/Master Creations kits. Nice but a nightmare in white metal. Seeing how the State of California thought her worthy of complete restoration, why can't we get a Spectrum worthy model of her? I know I would be buying at least two and every Sierra Rail modeler would need at least one as well. I just sold two thousand right there!
As soon as that one is done start on the Sierra #28. Both locomotives are still in existence and will be running within a couple of years.
I'm tired of Scratch building them for everybody! LOL
Are you thinking HO scale or On30? Because this discussion should only be for HO scale, On30 has its own discussion board. Please let's stick with only HO and not narrow gauge.
Actually, just looking for ideas that could help you get something you could want or use, even if the chances of it being commercially available are relatively slim. This fellow apparently noted that a 2-6-2T resembles a 2-6-0 with an extra axle for a fuel bunker; this was also my observation about a 4-6-4T being based on a kitbash of a 4-6-0. To see what I'm speaking of, take a look at the CNJ 4-6-4T again, and look where the firebox and cab are relative to the drivers; ditto for the Reading 2-6-4T. Now, keep in mind that these would be relatively large examples of 4-6-0s and 2-6-0s, and the effect is exaggerated even more by the Wooten fireboxes of both engines, but that's where the axles and firebox are in relation to each other. It may also be noted that the Reading engines were rebuilt as 2-6-0's when they were replaced by the electric MUs. Even the B&M 4-6-6T has its firebox between the last two driving axles; the reference to it looking like a 4-6-4 is more in regard to its girth and general styling, not its steam-making proportions.
As to the On30 2-6-2T, to my eye the relative proportions of boiler and tanks to drivers and cylinders look similar to those of the standard gauge 2-6-2T of the CNJ. I don't have driver and wheelbase figures for the two engines in front of me, but I wonder how close those key dimensions, and the boiler diameter, on the On30 model come to those of an HO 2-6-2T? (Remember the track gauge is the same.) If they are fairly close, you could then substitute or scratchbuild a new HO cab and other detail parts, such as domes, headlights, and air compressors, and get yourself something like the CNJ engine. It would be the reverse of what HOn30 and On30 modelers used to do for years--take an N-scale or HO-scale engine, remove domes and cabs, and substitute their larger-scale counterparts. This was very much a freelancer approach to things, and sometimes the proportions didn't quite work out (one modeler, attempting to use N-scale 2-8-2's to attempt HOn30 engines similar to those of the EBT's, but boiler and driver sizes were too small), but this is still a possible approach to get something that isn't available otherwise.
It's just meant as a way to look for possibilities, similar to my original suggestion earlier in this thread, that rod loggers could be a potential area for Bachmann to explore (and exploit) because of a common driver diameter, with a matching motor and gearbox. I would assume these are some of the more expensive parts of a model to tool for because of their working tolerances; with tooling costs for a new engine reportedly being in the $250,000 range, it's not a bad idea to see what you can use that's already in the parts bin.
PS--I do have to ask what you have for a layout. As I noted above, the inquiry about specialized commuter engines suggests you have an interest in this style of railroading, and it's not something everybody does! You may well have a unique and different layout, which is more than I have (I haven't even had the time for a new test track since a move fairly recently). Can you tell us something about it? It might be pretty neat!
And yes, while I'm a strong Pocahontas coal road fan, I like anything with a firebox on one end and a stack on the other!
"Proper locomotives are painted black and burn West Virginia coal!"
I base my layout on the Maine Central, Not a big commuter railroad. The B&M was a big commuter line but never had a 4-6-4t, only Moguls, Coni's and Pacifics. The R1 mountains were for long haul.
The NH had tank commuter engines but I never saw one as I lived north of Boston. We lived less than a block from 1 of the B&M's very busy commuter lines and I'd see a train every few minutes in the morning and evening and about every 1/2 hour at other times. Now this line through Melrose also handled freight and was double tracked and was busy ALL the time. We'd also see the passenger trains to and from Portland, Maine and the Flying Yankee was a regular every day
I would love to see small locos, but we have seen just about everything modelled except the commuter tank engines
I'd really like to see a 4-6-4t or a 4-6-6t, thats not brass however if it doesn't get made by a cheaper source i'll probrably resort to kitbashing one out of a hudson boiler and the many locomotive parts I have
You might find these useful.
http://www.friendsmodels.com/otherdesigns/312gaugeba466t.html
http://www.friendsmodels.com/images/007.pdf
The internet is amazing! And even more so the early model railroaders, who often had so little to work with.
Love to see some of these responses; wonder how much will either be produced, kitbashed, or scratchbuilt?
To continue with some other themes, we'll start with Sierra 3, and others, courtesy of Yesteryear Depot:
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR03BC.JPG
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR03A.JPG
No. 18 was Sierra's other "movie star," being used in "Dodge City," "Drums in the Deep South," and "Go West;" the last one is a Marx Brothers comedy with the craziest, wildest railroad chase sequence you're likely to see on film. Oh, she and the other 2-8-0s have 42-inch drivers--close to those 44-inchers under the 0-6-0T:
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR18.JPG
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR20.JPG
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR20A.JPG
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR22.JPG
This one's different, with 50-inch drivers, a common switcher size, as under the USRA 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s made by Life Like (now Walthers), and Bachmann's own USRA 0-6-0 and the freelanced 2-6-2 that's based on it:
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR24.JPG
Just for inspiration, a touch for the other end:
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRRC09.JPG
From the Golden West to the Gritty East--B&O subsidiary Staten Island Rapid Transit, with its camelbacks and Forneys, courtesy David Keller:
http://sbiii.com/d-keller/dklipix/sirt-s~2.jpg
http://sbiii.com/d-keller/dklipix/sirt-s~1.jpg
A Forney with a Wooten firebox and pilots fore and aft:
http://sbiii.com/d-keller/dklipix/sirt-t~1.jpg
As the Bach Man says, have fun.
this is HO not HO narrow gauge or O narrow gauge
They may not look it, but everything in the last post on Sierra Railway and Staten Island Rapid Transit is standard gauge. Says something about how small some of the older and specialized equipment could be. Narrow gauge isn't always small either; D&RG's workhorse C-16 2-8-0s were as big as any standard gauge engine when they were built in the 1880s, and the EBT's larger 2-8-2s, Nos. 16, 17, and 18 (80 tons each) would have been right at home on many a standard gauge shortline had they been built to that width, also having 48" drivers--similar to those of logging 2-8-2s. In fact, I only recently found out that the orginal Baldwin proposal for the EBT's big engines was to build them as 2-10-2s on three-foot gauge! EBT's management got concerned about bending such an engine around their curves, which included at least one in a tunnel, and so a section of boiler was left out and a pair of drivers deleted. Interesting to contemplate, though. . .
Now, I have to admit the EBT is a personal favorite, as I am only 90 minutes travel from it, and it is a cool road loaded with authentic atmosphere, but this is, as stated, a standard gauge page. I'm not suggesting this is something to make in HO scale, at least not unless we get hoppers to go with it. And I don't need something else to spend too much money one. . .
Should have remembered this one--New Hope & Ivyland's No. 40. I don't have her specs, but she looks an awful lot like Sierra 24. . .
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=159546&nseq=23
http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR24.JPG
Some other examples;
Arcade & Aticca 14--basically a newer version of Bachmann's Ma & Pa 4-6-0:
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0106/aa14a.jpg
No. 18 of the A&A--an Alco counterpart to NH&I 40 and Sierra 24:
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1007/aa18a.jpg
One of the wonderful things about steam railroads is the variety of ways designers came up with to turn boiling water into tractive effort. Unfortunately, it also probably drives model builders like Bachmann nuts in trying to figure out what to produce!
The NH&I 2-8-0 used to be running on the Livonia and Lakeville near Rochester NY. So I'm familiar with all 3 engines.
J3a-614, that caboose type is already made by roundhouse, i got a B&O one on my layout.
Quote from: J3a-614 on February 21, 2010, 09:09:19 AM"Proper locomotives are painted black and burn West Virginia coal!"
And real locomotives don't wear skirts!
;) Robert
A little sidetracking here, in response to Jet Train (hope no one minds this being a little off-topic)--but here is a model that's available, and has been for about 50 or 60 years. . .
http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/images/HO/ss%20sierra%20cab.jpg
This is the company's home page:
http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/
Old-fashioned style models, made of wood and metal; detailing is a bit crude by modern standards, not everything is accurate relative to the prototype, but they are still fun and kind of put you in touch with the old-timers in the hobby. These are what those fellows would have pulled with a Varney 10-wheeler or Dockside back in the day. There are also some prototype road names here you can't get anywhere else, including this one:
http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/images/HO/ho264.jpg
Since we brought up some old-time stuff, thought we could also check on this fellow:
http://gorre-and-daphetid.witt-family.com/
http://www.gdlines.com/
John Allen deliberately designed his model road to restrict him from buying huge engines (I believe his minimum radius was 26", modest for a road of this size), the idea being to have more fun with operations on a single-track mountain road. His biggest power was a C&O H-6 2-6-6-2 (a modern--1949 prototype--version of the H-4 soon to come).
Explore these sites, and have fun. I'll look forward to the comments, particularly those from any old-timers around.
Have you tried building a ambroid or northeastern wood kit. They are great models and look pretty good. I would suggest starting a thread on models.
Quote from: J3a-614 on February 20, 2010, 01:37:31 AM
"Proper locomotives are painted black and burn West Virginia coal!"
Or Pennsylvania anthracite. ... ;)
with a wooten fire box
Quote from: pdlethbridge on February 25, 2010, 01:18:05 PM
with a wooten fire box
Reading steam possibly, but I'd hope for a mikado or another connie
Recently came across more photos of Pickering No. 12, which was originally built for the Sierra Railway, and ran for Standard Lumber before going to Pickering, all the time running on roads that interchanged with the Sierra. Who would believe that paint scheme if not for these photos?
http://www.samlindsey.com/images/SteamExpo/SE86_28.jpg
http://www.samlindsey.com/images/SteamExpo/SE86_29.jpg
http://www.samlindsey.com/images/SteamExpo/SE86_64.jpg
I don't expect to see this one--and yet, it looks to be standard gauge!
http://www.samlindsey.com/images/SteamExpo/SE_28.jpg
http://www.samlindsey.com/images/SteamExpo/SE86_27.jpg
Where these are from:
http://www.samlindsey.com/TrainExcurs/Steam_Expo_4.asp
Enjoy.
Another variation on the 2-8-2T--in this case, on the New York Central, on its former Kanawha & Michigan subsidiary in West Virginia, photo courtesy of the West Virgina University archives:
http://images.lib.wvu.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?rgn1=ic_all;op2=And;rgn2=ic_all;g=wvcart;med=1;q1=wvcp;q2=railroads;size=20;c=wvcp;back=back1268882959;subview=detail;resnum=415;view=entry;lastview=thumbnail;cc=wvcp;entryid=x-025614;viewid=025614.JPG
For further browsing:
http://images.lib.wvu.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?rgn1=ic_all;op2=And;rgn2=ic_all;type=boolean;c=wvcp;g=wvcart;med=1;view=thumbnail;q1=wvcp;q2=railroads;back=back1268882959;size=20;start=1
Enjoy.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on February 17, 2010, 08:59:21 AM
how about a 4-6-4t or 2-6-4t like this, a commuter loco
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/ba-s0303vaa.jpg)
I would go for one.
Maybe I have a bad attitude; I see the great majority of model railroaders seeing it as a "fictional toy" or "European" because of ignorance of the great variety of prototypes on roads which were not the top 5 roadname model sales.
i think we need a camelback, maybe a cnj one... please...
We're getting a lot of Commuter engine votes ;)
Quote from: Daylight4449 on March 19, 2010, 09:39:42 AM
i think we need a camelback, maybe a cnj one... please...
0-6-0= TOO SMALL! need a 4-4-0! ;)
Quote from: jettrainfan on March 19, 2010, 03:22:02 PM
0-6-0= TOO SMALL! need a 4-4-0! ;)
Yeah. I know there's too much Pennsy out there already, but I'm still waiting for a D16sb eight-wheeler.
they had more than 0-6-0's , they had 4-6-0 and i think some others... though cant name them but am pretty sure we also had 2-6-0
Quote from: jettrainfan on March 19, 2010, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: Daylight4449 on March 19, 2010, 09:39:42 AM
i think we need a camelback, maybe a cnj one... please...
0-6-0= TOO SMALL! need a 4-4-0! ;)
Ooooooo, now that sounds good. how about a pair of camelbacks, that 4-4-0 and a 2-8-0.
I'm a C&O man myself, and I know some people think there is too much PRR on the market, but since Bowser called it quits with steam kits, there have been some significant holes in available Pennsy locomotives, among them the A5s 0-4-0, B6sb 0-6-0, H10s 2-8-0 (and close relative H8 and H9), L1s 2-8-2, E6s 4-4-2, I1s 2-10-0 (someone is supposed to fill this one), and G5 4-6-0s.
Which brings to mind--Life Like once had a plastic G5, back around 1969 or so, which even had the correct tender (something Bowser didn't have); I believe it was made in Austria under contract (Roco?). Did anyone here have one in the day, can anyone say anything about it? And I wonder what became of the tooling. . .
. . .and MDC had a correct low tender for the E6s, which was also used on early K4s, L1s, and assorted 2-8-0s. . .wonder what became of those dies?
Now, if only I could find that link to some excursion footage of CNJ 4-6-0 774 on the New York & Long Branch, which showed the pilot on the rear of the tender for bidirectional service. . .can you imagine such an engine, or a Pennsy G5 similarly equipped at Pittsburgh, running at high speed, tender first?
The NYC had pilots on their tenders for their commuter runs as well, they were on some of their Pacifics.
Just a point of interest. When I was a kid the only CNJ 4-6-0s I got to see were on excursion trains on the high bridge line. This would have been in the early 1940s, my guess would be 1942 or 43. In the late 40s RMC ran a story about one of those fan trips.
This list would also have to include the S-160, otherwise known as the GI 2-8-0 and its postwar variants. Thousands were built, and they literally ran in locations all around the world, including a number of places in the USA. A wartime engine (Great Smokey Mountain 1702) and a postwar version (Tennessee Valley 610) run today, along with a WWI "Pershing" predecessor (Texas State 300). Such a model would likely be an international seller!
An earlier discussion of this engine is here:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12534.0.html
Finally stumbled onto that CNJ 4-6-0 excursion footage. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDmNAu0v__g&NR=1
Enjoy.
Did you notice the huge light and pilot on the tender? She was designed for running in reverse a lot.
Sure did! That's part of the reason I was so glad to find this again. And take a look again at that large cylindrical object on the top of the tender. At first glance, it looks like an air tank, but it has an exhaust pipe and muffler that looks a little like a spark catcher on a woodburner. It's a huge turbogenerator, used for train lighting. CNJ commuter trains made so many stops that the traditional axle-driven generators on cars could not keep the batteries charged, so the CNJ went in for what we would now call "head-end power." Somebody (Kemtron? PIA?) once offered this as a detail part in brass.
I wonder how many people think this is a diesel-era inovation? Actually, the very first electrically lighted trains ran with a generator car, or an engine-generator (reciprocating steam engine) set in a baggage car that ran off steam piped from the locomotive through a connection like those used for steam heating. And the Milwaukee Road, in the 1890's, actually had steam generator cars (like what would be later used with freight diesels) for train heat to supplement the capacity of the relatively small 4-4-0s in service at the time.
It simply amazes me how long some supposedly modern technical fixes for operating problems or special conditions have been around. And while I'm a strong C&O fan, I like those Camelbacks, too.
In fact, I like about anything with a firebox at one end and a smokestack at the other!
A photo of this same engine, from earlier in this thread:
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//march99/03-26-99/crd90597.jpg
Sadly, she did not make it into preserrvation, despite efforts by some railfans back then. CNJ managment at the time thought they had done enough by donating the relatively rare 592 (Camelback 4-4-2) to the B&O Museum in Baltimore. I'm grateful for this, of course, but I wonder if the 592 wishes she had a sister to keep her company. . .
http://saulnadler.railfan.net/display.cgi?CNJ_592.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=58514
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=58514&Page=2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=58514&Page=3
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_cnj592.jpg
Amazing what you sometimes stumble across on the internet.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/cnj_steam1.html
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/cnj_atr.html
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnj/cnj.html
Enjoy.
One of the problems in model railroading (if it is a problem) is making a choice about what to model. There is always something new to discover, even in the steam era which has been gone for over 50 years, or a shortline that has been gone for about 70 years--and yet, one of its engines survives today. As a bit of trivia, its construction number is 33333!
http://www.wva-usa.com/history/mthope/kgje.php
http://www.wvepostcards.com/kgj-and-e/
http://www.wvepostcards.com/kgj-and-e/index2.php
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/prairie/?page=kgje
http://remembercliffside.com/documents/pdfs/engine_brochure.pdf
Other material from this site to explore:
http://www.wva-usa.com/history/mthope/whiteoak.php
http://www.wva-usa.com/history/mthope/loupckbr.php
http://www.wvepostcards.com/index.php#railroads
A reference to the town of Cliffside in the notes on Kanawha Glen Jean & Eastern 200 lead to a site on the town, and some interesting links on railroads there. Explore and enjoy:
http://remembercliffside.com/index.html
http://remembercliffside.com/galleries/railroad/crrindex.html
http://remembercliffside.com/photoofmonth/2008/picmonthfeb2008.html
http://remembercliffside.com/galleries/railroad/crrindex.html
Those who love decrepit shortlines and the affectionate and artful carricature style of John Allen will appreciate Jim Scancarelli (current "Gasoline Alley" cartoonist) and his interpretation of Cliffside in HO scale:
http://remembercliffside.com/galleries/model/modelhome.html
Enjoy.
I'm a steam fan through and through. But those camelback are hideous.
Camelbacks are an acquired taste. You sort of have to have been exposed to them early on to appreciate them.
i still want a ho scale 4-4-0 camel back :(
Hard to find photos of IHC engines since the firm went out of business, but here are some shots by a fellow who likes Camelbacks, and of course went to work with IHC 2-6-0s (which, to my eye, most closely resemble an engine from the NYO&W, except for the piston-valve cylinders of the SP prototype that was the basis of the mechanism). He also went and swapped superstructures on IHC 4-4-0s to get himself some 4-4-0 Camelbacks.
http://www.railroad-line.com/discussion/pop_printer_friendly.asp?TOPIC_ID=16740
Of course, Camelbacks were considered dangerous locomotives with the fireman and engineer seperated like that, and with the engineer right over that clanking machinery (not a good place to be if the engine decides to throw its rods, which did happen once in a while), while the fireman usually had to stand on the tender and fire through two firedoors, with minimal shelter--and imagine doing so on a 4-6-0 running tender-first at high speed, in the winter, in rain. . .the men on those engines must have been of iron, like the locomotives themselves. . .
Jet Train, I have to ask, are you an anthracite road modeler? If you are, it's not something everyone does. . .
Interestingly, the N&W once owned a Camelback, a chunky 2-6-2 inherited from a shortline that was bought out; seems it served in a very small area that had hard coal in Virginia. Didn't last long, but still an interesting footnote in the N&W steam roster.
This one's for P. D. Lethbridge and Rye Guy; a double-ender in action!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqAmm5WaZ-I&NR=1
Poor 47. Last time I saw that engine, it was rusting away in the open at Steamtown.
It was a good runner, but not big enough for fan trips at Steamtown.
There are a lot of PRR Modelers out there, A H9/10 2-8-0 and G5 4-6-0 are a definite necessity for PRR modelers.
You have the E6 4-4-0 too.
These are all small steam locomotives that have yet to be modeled on a mass scale.
The Lackawanna and CNJ Camel backs would be great too!
Bachmann has the K4 model, How much retooling would be needed to make a mold for a G5/H9/10?
Bowser made 2 of them, the H9 and G5. You can still find them around like on ebay.
I'll also add that Bowser also made the E6s, as well, although some would argue that it was not as accurate as it might have been. At least one article on assembling and detailing one of these engines involved replacing the superstructure and tender with the more-accurate counterparts from Model Die Casting (Tender trucks, though, were Bowser's aftermarket Dauphin or Dolphin trucks). Ironically, MDC had a (relatively) inferior mechanism in that the drivers were too small, the valve gear was missing, and most ironic of all, a gear-reduction system that made this speedster too slow!
There is a thread on "Early-Time Kits;" Bowser is present there:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12480.0.html
If you check the "Obsessed with Heavy Metal " thread, you can also see a Bowser G5 in progress:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12823.0.html
There is also an earlier comment on this thread about a Pennsy H6 (which was also B&O's E-24)and what appear to be stock Alco cousins.
Point to consider: Bowser's 4-4-2 mechanism, like its standardized racehorse prototype, shared many common parts with the K4s; the K4s, in fact, was developed from the E6s rather than the predecessor K2 and K3s. This suggests the possibility of reduced tooling costs in the mechanism department. And this in turn would suggest the possibility not only of a B&O P-7 4-6-2 (mentioned in another thread), but also a PRR K-3s, NYC K-3s and K-5s, and even Reading G-1s, 2s, and 3s (all 4-6-2s with 80-inch drivers and similar wheelbases and driver spacing).
I wonder if anybody in management has been reading anything in these posts?
The PRR, the "Standard Railroad of the World" was big into standardizing equipment as much as possible. The E-6 boiler was virtually the same as the H-8/9/10, and the L-1 and K-4 boilers were about the same. When Penn Line devised their PRR loco kits, they used the same boiler casting for the E-6 and H-8, and the same one for the K-4, L-1, and even the I-1. The issue was that the different classes usually had different dome and applicance arrangements, so at least one of the models was not correct. Also, the I-1 had a bigger boiler than the K-4 or L-1, so the model was a bit too slim. Carey once made a correct replacement.
Not too many diesels mentioned. I only want 1 other diesel that's small. A SV-1!
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=80306
^ i know LGB made a G scale one but still...
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=22785
Its because most diesels, except for alcos, don't smoke and don't have side rods.
JTF-
Check Walthers. I just received an email today which says they have an HOn30 loco that looks just about like what you want. Maybe you can run it on a narrow gauge branchline or rebuild it to standard gauge.
OK, thx!
Just found it! http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/168-5052
Industrial Railroading--should have remembered that different world!
Some links to explore, of course:
We start off with a master link, Northeast Railfan (which also has a number of photo rosters, including B&O and CNJ we've been using elsewhere):
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/industrial.html
This is just some of what is here:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel100.htm
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel112.html
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/porter/porter-ind.html
http://www.over-land.com/rrporter.html
Six pages on Plymouth Locomotives, from Plymouth, Ohio; item of note, most were shipped via the B&O, suggesting some interesting flat car loads. Most photos on this site can be enlarged by clicking on them:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel81.html
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/plw1987.jpg
Look who owned this one!
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_bo25.jpg
Another interesting owner, and check out the exhaust stacks:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pe1646.jpg
Amherst Barge in West Virginia:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ahs0.jpg
This one is the prototype for a Mantua/Tyco model from the early 1960s:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3.jpg
It's supposed to be a different locomotive from the link above, but I'm not so sure. In any event, it's the same type, on the standard-gauge section of the East Broad top Railroad and Coal Company; photo locations are at Mt. Union, Pa.:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3a.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3b.jpg
For plow, work, and towing service on transit lines, Boston and San Francisco, the latter on 5' 3" gauge:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/mbta04443.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bart0.jpg
A burly 100 tonner on narrow gauge, for Bethlehem Steel:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bscx30.jpg
I believe Model Railroad once published drawings for this one:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ils49.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1914456
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_moy58.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cc106-6.jpg
Westinghouse page:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel109.html
This Westinghouse unit is preserved and reported operational at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum in Washington, Pa.--a museum I can personally recommend:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_arm_b73.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/arm_b73a.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=254284
A sister unit, No. 71, which, judging from the background, is also preserved:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ascB71.jpg
The photo says this is on the Northampton & Bath, but I'm not sure; she looks more like something from eastern Europe than North America, and what steam locomotive is that behind the diesel?
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nb1601.jpg
Can't ignore industrial steam:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/industrial_steam.html
Proper locomotives are painted black and burn coal--except when they don't:
http://www.nrhs.com/web_exclusives/fireless_cooker/index.html
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam21.html
It's surprising how common some of these Porter "fireless cookers" once were, and late in era, too; some have been running in recent years. And take note, in the first photo, of the big 0-8-0 Heisler job in the background; it's still around, in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ppl4093a.jpg
Same engine some years later--"Take that, Thomas!":
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=244912
Another shot of the Heisler 0-8-0:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_ppl4094.jpg
One of two common later designs from Porter:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-u/ues-s4ags.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/porter/page48h.jpg
The other was an 0-6-0; reportedly one of these engines was still in use at a power plant in Pennsylvania at least into the 1980s, and was rigged up for remote control, like some diesels in steel plants:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-p/pplc-sunk-bv.jpg
C&O had three of these 0-6-0Fs, for use in the literally explosive atmosphere of the chemical plants in Charleston, W.Va. The were replaced with diesels, which had to use a "handle" of up to six idler flats to reach into some of the areas these steamers could go with safety. The photo location is at the yard and locomotive facility in South Charleston; the wooden trestle in the background is the southern approach to a bridge over the Kanawha River that lead to an interchange with the B&O (former Coal & Coke) and New York Central (former Kanawha & Michigan) lines on the north bank. This bridge was also shared with the local trolley system until that service dried up in the late 1930s.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co-s35qlr.jpg
This site is so useful, I'm posting it here. Most of it is class 1 and diesel, but there is much else, too. Mr. Elwood deserves great credit for sharing so many photos.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/#c
Enjoy.
You always forget things. . .
This hobby shop in Laurel, Md., is a big Bachmann distributor, and carries some other things, too, including dual-gauge track for those little Minitrains mini-trains:
http://www.peachcreekshops.com/
http://www.peachcreekshops.com/images/germantrack.jpg
http://www.peachcreekshops.com/genprods.php3?UID=2010042302415874.111.79.204&val=HOn30_Minitrains
http://www.peachcreekshops.com/wrapper.php?src=prodimages/55785.jpg
Some historical perspective on the original Minitrains by AHM:
http://www.hon30.org/bobhist.htm
From the Tony Cook page, under its AHM section, on the "Early-Time Kits" thread; note the small size of this equipment compared to its standard gauge counterparts in the box cover photo:
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscaletrainscollectorsresource/id85.html
As usual, enjoy.
Some more Plymouths:
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&resnum=0&q=plymouth+locomotive+photos&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=H0bRS4CNO4rq9QT3rOWzDw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CA8QsAQwAA
http://www.ironminers.com/mineforum/viewtopic.php?p=11587&sid=0404daa453bd333ec89fcefcb7a14e14
Industrial heritage:
http://www.ironminers.com/
http://www.undergroundminers.com/
Enjoy.