Bachmann Online Forum

At the suggestion of pdlethridge, here is a place for some links to early model railroad kits that are still available.  In some cases the detail may be a bit crude, some are challenging to put together, but they are still fun and, in a way, a connection to early modelers, including the legendary John Allen of Gorre & Daphetid fame.  These kits are part of what would have kept Varney Docksides and Ten-Wheelers company back when.  As to the thread name, I was tempted to call them "old-time kits," but that might have been confused with pure period models--but then, isn't that what these are, in more ways than one?

Freight cars in wood and cast metal:

http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/

Buildings in wood and cardboard, and in real corrugated metal:

http://www.alpinemodels.com/index.html

Modelers of the 19th century will like this one:

https://www.labellemodels.com/

Of course, Bachmann's own Plasticville line dates to 1947.  (History site)

http://www.tandem-associates.com/plasticville/plasticville.htm

Northeastern Scale Models used to sell a variety of freight cars, and was best known for a Russell snowplow and Boston and Maine coaches that would have gone behind those Moguls and Americans a Bachmann contingent loves so well.  Those cars are not currently catalogued, but the company is around, in California.

http://www.nesm.com/

Not listed here is Bowser, who made an extensive line of steam locomotive kits, mostly of PRR prototypes, including E6s 4-4-2s, H10s 2-8-0s, G5 4-6-0s, L1s 2-8-2s, M1 and M1a 4-8-2s, I1s 2-10-0s, and of course K4s 4-6-2s.  A New York Central K-11 4-6-2 and a very heavy "lead pipe" (waggish comment) UP 4-6-6-4 were also available, and for a while this firm also reproduced Varney's Dockside, 4-6-0, and 2-8-0.  Unfortunately, steam kits are too small a market today.

Then there were (and are) these classic trucks from Ulrich:

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=ulrich+models

http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.railstop.com/

This is intended as just a start.  No doubt there are others around, and I'm certain some readers here will remember having worked with others, such as Ideal Models (structure kits).

Let's hear what you have to say.

J3,

Thanks for the link to Labelle.  I bought their 1905 Combine and Coach a few years ago. I run them with my Bachmann 10 wheeler.  One thing I would like to add is the finishing out of the roofs.  I bought some model airplane tissue to place on the roofs and spray painted them black.  It gives a great texture a thousand times better than just painting the roofs.  I also stained the car bodies with mahogany wood stain and sprayed them with a clear coat to give them a shine.  They both look great.

Bill

Bill:  Your treatment of your LaBelles mirrors what the prototypes did back around the turn of the 20th century, in the days before "Pullman Green" became ubiquitous.  It's the reason that passenger trains got the nickname "varnish". 

River City RR sells some nice old time plastic "shake the box" kits on ebay, "Buy it now". I cannot mention the brand here. The cars are 36' truss rod type. Circa 1900.

I have bought a bunch. Very good seller.

They also sell the Overton four car set, unpainted so you can detail them yourself.

Lex

A little more history:

The Northeastern kits were more properly known as Ambroid kits of various series; from what I've been able to determine, Ambroid was primarily a glue company, and the kits were made by Northeastern for them under contract, Northeastern primarily being a wood-milling company making stripwood and other scratch-building material.  Later some of the kits would be re-released under Northeastern's own name.  A history site is below:

http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/sitemap.htm

Ambroid's main business was really glue.  It's still around, and still a good product for wood, cardboard, and so on.

http://www.ambroid.com/Ambroid.html

Came across this history page from a site on old models in general; the best thing about it is that it shows how some of those old kits actually came out, including some shots of kits under construction.  As Labelle is still around, and as it is still possible to run into vintage Ambroid models, the shots of the models under construction are of interest in giving you an idea of the experience you'll have.

http://www.oldmodelkits.com/blog/plastic-model-kit-history/the-ho-scale-model-railroading-revolution-of-the-1940s/

The Kasiner streamliner car illustrated reminded me of OK Streamliners, which I believe may have started out as a firm called Herkimer's.  (Can anyone confirm this?)  In any event, OK Streamliners is still around, and for a relatively modest price, will even custom-punch the sides of a car for you if it is not a standard car they offer.  Keep in mind, however, that these are going to be very basic models, particularly in the interior and underbody departments, if they have anything at all.

http://www.okengines.com/

http://www.okengines.com/pdf/catalog1.pdf

http://www.okengines.com/pdf/catalog2.pdf

Still, those are parts you can add on; and in some cases, the custom car service they offer might be the only way to get some prototypes, including the prospect of the boat-tail observation cars that were to have been built for C&O's George Washington by Pullman-Standard (but were canceled by the road's financial troubles in the late 1940's).

Then there is Model Railroad Warehouse, home to M. Dale Newton's Red Ball line until recently.  Looks like Red Ball will still be around, too, based on some of the material on this site:

http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/

Who knows what else is out there?

The Ambroid kits were "1 in 5000" made for them by Northeastern. I built several and my favorite was an outside braced NC&StL caboose.  Northeastern was making kits long before the Ambroid series. Their originals included a B&M winged snow plow and some B&M passenger cars.

There were 12 cars in each Ambroid series and they ran two series.

As for cement you had three choices: an acetate glue as made by Ambroid and Duco; then there was ever popular Walther's Goo which was similar to Pliobond and was basically rubber cement. The best choice for wood kits was Elmer's white glue.

I used to use Elmers or equivalent on the wooden body and goo or pliobond to attach metal fittings. Walther's used to tout their glue as being great for everything but it was difficult to work with. I used to use library glue - a thin rubber cement that came in a jar with a brush - used to attach labels to the insides of books.

The hobby has come a long way since those days. The Northeastern kits still make nice models and there are tons of great detail parts if you don't wish to use the rather crude white metal castings that come with the kits. I see the kits on Ebay all the time. I paid a few dollars for mine but I see them on Ebay for ridiculous prices. Those must be the Ambroid gold plated series!

More tickling of brain cells going on. . .

Just the thing to go with a Shay or Climax (or a not-yet-made Baldwin rod logger), and by Kadee, the coupler people:

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/HO-Scale%20Log%20Car.htm

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page101.htm

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page102.htm

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page103.htm

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page107.htm

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page104.htm

If you tickle it too much, you'll laugh!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o
Most, if not everything, can be found on Ebay. And some can be gotten cheap.

I would have more than what I do if I weren't married. . .

"I am a man of constant sorrow,
  My wife spends all my pay. . ."

We must always love women, they put up with all our bad jokes (as my own wife of 29 years can attest).

A comment in the "carpet coupler" thread about link and pin couplers (normally associated with 19th century railroading) got me looking--and found that some of the products of Alexander Scale Models are back in production, courtesy of Tomar (normally associated as a firm specializing in passenger train tail signs)--including, of course, the link and pin couplers.  Other lines, such as Utah Pacific, are there, too.

http://www.tomarindustries.com/index.html

http://www.tomarindustries.com/asm.htm

One of the classics from this line.

http://www.tomarindustries.com/A-7519.jpg

Another firm that was around a long time back, with some classic structures and a portable coal conveyor was Dyna-Models; does anybody know if this firm or some reincarnation is still around?

Hi
What is even more interesting is how many times we perhaps build the same kit in our lives.
I am working on two houses and there gardens both are re manufactured early time kits originally by Airfix from their railway range the only change is literally the brand name on the label.
In the sixties many UK model railways and train sets had had these buildings and still can only by Dapol today but still exactly the same Kit
I have built the cottage kit for the third time
First as little more than a child boy was I proud of that mess.
The second time in my twenties for a friends layout, and a good deal better than the first attempt with dad.
And now yet again this time hoping to get the thatched roof coloring right
never did get that right in the other two builds
Just by coincidence I have also used plasicville kits from time to time
these seem to have the same longevity as the old Airfix railway range
So I wonder how many of the plastic ville models cleverly disguised with realistic paint jobs and a couple of extra details added are hiding on todays model railways. if I can get one when I want it the cathedral and burger bar can certainly have a place on my layout.
regards John

Have to say I'm a big fan of the Tomar bumping post.  Have four or five scattered around my layout.

My thanks to all for a fascinating thread. I have bookmarked this one for future reference. J3A-614...that historical website is wonderful!! I plan on visiting it often...brings back memories.

Since Tomar Industries was mentioned, I'd like to give them a plug. The transfer tables (traversers) on my Monks' Island Brewery/Railway layout were giving me fits due to their unreliability. It seemed no matter what I tried, I just couldn't get reliable electrical transfer between the tables and the pit rails. I installed Tomar #805 Pickup Shoes on the tables - such that they had contact with (slid along) the powered pit rails and, voila, reliable power to each table's tracks! I will try to find the time to take some pictures and add to my much earlier thread. Incidentally, this thread can be seen at
Again, thanks for the valuable information.

Regards to all,
Ray

I have to say, this has been fun looking up this old stuff, although it takes up too much time (which is to say, it's just a little addictive). . .

I wasn't going to put on information about Bowser, as this firm no longer makes steam locomotive kits, but in view of the interest in "early-time" kits, I have to change my mind.

For reference, Bowser's modern home page:

http://www.bowser-trains.com/

From this home page:

First, the steam engines; note the former Varney engines as well:

http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/holocos.htm

Continuing on:

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/manual/manual.htm

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/aerotrain.htm

For many years, Bowser trolleys were the only ones you could get, outside of brass or scratchbuilding.

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/trolleys/trolleys.htm

Other items, one or two of which have been linked earlier in the tread:

http://www.railstop.com/History/Bowser/BowserHistory.asp

http://www.bowser-trains.com/misc/history/history.htm

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/FMref.pdf

Athearn cars used to be in metal:

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/Menzies.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/Partref1.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/partref2.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/motors.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/Old%20Locos.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/gg1ref.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/tenders/tenders.htm

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/tender_trucks/tender_trucks.htm

http://www.bowser-trains.com/misc/building_tips/building_kits.htm

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/BoxRef.pdf

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/Old%20Lady_Varney.pdf

These came from this page; looks like they still have some Varney metal cars (Bowser production) in stock.

Detail parts are still handy for dressing up or altering current locomotives, and for those rare occasions (because so few of us still have or ever did acquire the skill) when you scratchbuild an engine.  The Cal Scale line, by way, includes parts originally made by a company called Budd, which must have been one of the first, if not the first, detail parts firm that worked in lost wax:

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/calscale/calscale.htm

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/calscale/6000.pdf

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/cary.htm

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/Cary%20Parts.pdf

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/Cary%20Superdetail%20kits.pdf

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/Cary%20Body.pdf

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/selley/Selley%20Drawings%20HO.pdf

From Bowser, material on one of the company's predecessors:

http://www.hoseeker.org/pennline/pennlinehistory/pennlineindex.html

Note that you can look inside the catalogues with the drop-down links:

http://www.hoseeker.org/pennline/pennlinehistory/early.html

http://www.hoseeker.org/pennlineinstructions.html

http://www.hoseeker.org/pennlineinformation.html

Hmm, check out the home page where the catalogue information came from; someone else likes to look up old HO stuff:

http://www.hoseeker.org/

In one way it's too bad some things have improved to the extent they have, and that is in how one can at best rarely get undecorated kits and decals to go with them.  Believe me, this is still something useful, especially if you are modeling a road like the C&O or the Virginian (or for that matter the NYC where it interchanged with the C&O and the VGN, at the east end of the former Kanawha & Michigan) and you need about 300 hopper cars, all with different numbers.

http://www.minot.com/champ/

Enjoy.

Not anything with early kits (other than that some were used here), but something still appropriate for what is turning out to be Bachmann's nostalgia and history page:

http://gorre-and-daphetid.witt-family.com/

http://www.gdlines.com/

I'll let you explore here, particularly the slide pages, and just wait for some comments.

J3,

Thanks for the wonderful link to John Allen's G & D.  I've looked at some of it, but not all.  What impresses me most is the fact that most, if not all, of his locomotives are brass imports.  I didn't know that these highly detailed engines were manufactured back in the late 40's and 50's.  Also, what caught my eye was the track he used.  It appears all was hand laid.  I'm pretty sure they didn't have flex track back in those days and doesn't appear to be any sectional track used.  The turn outs, were they hand laid? I would appreciate a comment from one of our G & D historians to comment if they know.

Bill

Probably the majority of John's engines began life as most locomotives of that time--metal kits primarily made of zamac, a zinc and aluminum alloy and produced by such manufacturers as Mantua and Varney.  John superdetailed his engines (not always for a particular prototype) using lost wax brass castings from companies like Kemtron. 

Flexible track was available in the 50's but it was pretty crude.  HO rail was around code 100 which was a big improvement over tinplate track.  Atlas had flex track with brass rail and a fiber (sort of like very heavy cardbord)  tie strip.  Brass "staples" secured the rail to the tie strip.  Atlas also made numbered turnouts with brass rail and live frogs.  Another option was to spike rail to milled ties/roadbed.  Tru Scale produced wooden roadbed (straight, curved and flexible) that could be used as a base for hand laying track, and self-gauging tie strip/roadbed.  They also made turnout kits and complete track pieces that could be put together sort of like sectional track.  My recollection is that most of the G&D was hand laid.

John was a professional photographer.  He began to use scenes on his original G&D as locations for shots he took of Varney equipment for ads.  For years, Varney had the back cover of Model Railroader.  As a youngster, I looked forward to that back cover as much as the rest of the magizine. 

John loved to show off the G&D and was always ready to extend the hospitality of his home to servicemen stationed in the Monterey, CA area.  John's constant admonition to visitors who got to operated the Gorre and Daphetid was to slow down!  He insisted that folks run his trains at scale (or less than scale) speed.  Consequently, the G&D seemed bigger than it really was.

The G&D was destroyed by fire only weeks after John's death.  I don't think the cause of the fire was ever identified.  Somehow it seemed right.
Old Timer

I remember some of those images from late 60's MR issues.  One that always stuck in my mind was a "Work Dino" clearing a wreck.  It was complete with an engine number on it's ribcage and a drover.

Old Timer,

Thanks for the history lesson on John Allen.  I never knew John super detailed his engines. Wow, what an artist!  I remember the card board flex track.  I tried to lay sand ballast with water dilluted white glue....and you can imagine the warping and mess that it made.  This was about in the mid fifties. I must say that our hobby has come a long, long way. 

I know DCC wasn't even dreamed about back then, but do you know of any electrical block diagrams John made for the G&D?

J3 - I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but the subject of John Allen came up and I just had to ask a few question about him.

Bill

Quote from: Chris350 on March 03, 2010, 01:54:20 PM
I remember some of those images from late 60's MR issues.  One that always stuck in my mind was a "Work Dino" clearing a wreck.  It was complete with an engine number on it's ribcage and a drover.

Wasn't it nice that someone who could create such an exquisite model railroad also clearly had a sense of humor about the hobby?  :)

Quote from: Johnson Bar Jeff on March 03, 2010, 03:50:08 PM

Quote from: Chris350 on March 03, 2010, 01:54:20 PM
I remember some of those images from late 60's MR issues.  One that always stuck in my mind was a "Work Dino" clearing a wreck.  It was complete with an engine number on it's ribcage and a drover.

Wasn't it nice that someone who could create such an exquisite model railroad also clearly had a sense of humor about the hobby?  :)

True. Improved sense of humor needed in this world in general today..... Sadly it's often lost....

Bill, don't worry about "taking over;" this is meant to be entertaining and educational, your comments and questions are part of the reason I started this thing.

From having read "Model Railroading with John Allen" by the late Lynn Wescott (and I'm sorry it was a borrowed copy I had to return), John's locomotives were a somewhat eclectic mix of stock mass-produced engines with modified details, weathered brass engines, and some scratchbuilt and partsbuilt power.

No. 12 was an almost stock MDC 0-6-0, a model based on a turn-of-the 20th century engine built for the Southern Pacific.  This model was actually produced, in one form or another, from the late 1930s until the end of MDC kits.  Very old ones would have had 6 volt motors, which was the early standard.

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/12.html

No. 12 with scratchbuilt combine No. 5, which looks like a short car from the Sierra Railways Angels branch service.  Note that the piping is cast on, which we disdain today, but John managed, with paint and other work, to make it look good.

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/12and5.html

Scratchbuilt non-powered engines of very early prototype, not powered; Bachmann has a model of the Norris-built Lafayette that is similar to this.

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/assembly.html

Check out the Varney Dockside (subject of a rather extensive thread a while back) and the Silver Streak (Ye Olde Huff'n Puff) caboose in the background.

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/grandt2.html

Parts-built monster; Varney Reading 2-8-0 boiler (same prototype as Bachmann's old 2-8-0 that's no longer in production), Mantua 50" drivers (a common switcher size, also used under Bachmann's USRA 0-6-0 and the freelanced 2-6-2 that's based on it), a homemade frame (and likely side rods), and assorted other parts, including what I presume to be a Kemtron (now PIA?) Bethlehem tender booster.

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/34alone.html

No. 13, Emma the Dinosaur, helping unload Varney motors for the ad campaigm; wax on a wire armature:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/dinosaur2.html

No. 8, Mantua's Belle of the 80s, with hand lettering and striping:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/published8.html

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/number8better.html

I'm not sure what No. 40 was, but it looks like a brass AT&SF 2-8-2:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/number40a.html

No. 43, a brass AT&SF 2-8-4, and one of two surviving locomotives (the other is 4-10-0 34, mentioned above):

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/GD_43_full.html

No. 34 in action, approaching Gorre:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_00/slides/s0_009_enginehouse_unkdate.html

I'm a little short on time right now, so I'll just let you all explore some more.  Some engines that I do recall are a red 4-6-2, which was a slightly modified Bower NYC K-11 mated to a brass tender from Pacific Fast Mail (PFM) AT&SF 1950 class 2-8-0, a large PFM 2-6-6-2 of C&O prototype (class H-6. a modern 1949 version of Bachmann's new H-4), and a brass PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2 (which I think carried the prototype's number 38), and a Varney Casey Jones 4-6-0 modified with a high headlight and coupled with a modified (to coal) Kemtron Vanderbilt tender of Southern Pacific pattern (similar to Bachmann's medium Vanderbilt).

Enjoy your exploring.

The older kits from LaBelle's (same company as the one which makes the lubricants), Ambroid, Walther's (wood pasenger kits with metal sides) and Central Valley (same as the company which made the fabulous trucks and now makes bridges and stairways) are commonly available on ebay.  This is true for both passenger and freight kits.

Yes, Herkimer, Kasiner and OK all sold/sell the same kits.

Woddy - Ambroid sold many kits which weren't One-in Five-Thousand, though the 1/5000 were supposed to be something special since they had limited production.  And there were a iot more than 24 different 1/5000 kits.

Herkimer, Kasiner and OK all sold/sell the same kits. They were the same type of kits, but they were not the same.

OK, back for a little more exploring among the G&D photos:

4-6-0 No. 49, a Varney Casey Jones with a Kemtron tank; appropriate as both are based on SP prototypes; C&O H-6 partially visible to the right, and a modified Bowser Brill trolley is in the background.  Clicking on the photo will blow it up considerably, revealing, among other things, John Allen's use of a red light bulb to simulate firebox glare, and the hollowed-out headlight with lighted number boards:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_01/slides/s1_027_49etc_jul68.html

PFM Shay at Andrews, with a modified Atlas station:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_01/slides/s1_030_linnsarchives_sep69.html

Logging scene:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_01/slides/s1_029_logs_oct67.html

Roundhouse at Great Divide; this is a free-lance road, yet this scene and others somehow make me hear panting air compressors--flanges squealing--engines clumping onto the turntable, and the grinding sound of its tractor as it spins a locomotive--the roundhouse smells of smoke inside, and the men are preparing aging locomotives for another day--it helps when you've been in such a place, even if it is narrow gauge in Orbisonia, Pa. . .

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_01/slides/s1_019_great_sep63.html

Most impressive scene--part of the Giant Canyon.  Scenery here comes to the floor, which here is painted to look like a muddy river below. 

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_00/slides/s0_045_riverscalp2_jun65.html

Before dawn at the roundhouse in Great Divide:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_00/slides/s0_065_49_jul68.html

No. 25; like No. 12, based on an MDC-Roundhouse 0-6-0, but modified more extensively, with an extended front and new pilot truck, a new slot filed into the frame to move the rear driving axle behind the firebox (more typical of a road locomotive which this now is), with an appropriate lengthened side rod, and the main rod now connected to the middle driver, along with a new tender; check out the model railroad cars behind her, including a Marquette Union Terminal (MUT) car and one from the NMRA:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_02/slides/s2_005_25bridge_feb72-orig.html

No. 56, the Bowser NYC K-11 in a panned shot:

http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RMC-19710200-046-300_70.jpg

Have fun.

QuoteNo. 13, Emma the Dinosaur, helping unload Varney motors for the ad campaigm; wax on a wire armature:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/dinosaur2.html (http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/Locomotives/slides/dinosaur2.html)

I could use one of these for the morning and evening local when the 4-4-0 is in the shop. ...

;)

Quote from: J3a-614 on March 04, 2010, 12:57:27 AM
OK, back for a little more exploring among the G&D photos:

keep in mind John Allen was a pioneer in model railroading, I'm only 21 and this guy is my idol, I have 300+ MDC replicas of his rolling stock(ridiculous I know) including a shay #7, and two 0-6-0's #'s 11 and 12

I recently acquired a bulline car from an auction so I gotta say I'm a huge fan, I also have a tendency to collect alot of varney, and I have some scratchbuilt brass engines and tenders as well.

don't you just love free lance? :D

I got to visit John just before his passing, and the G&D was as impressive in reality as you can imagine it from the pics.  One little side note:  John's house had originally only a partial basement.  There was only about enough room for the laundry and furnace.  He had to dig out a good chunk of dirt to expand the layout space, which did give him the opportunity to drop the scenery to the floor.  There was also a support column right in the middle of the layout area.  It was in the way, so he took it out!  In the living room upstairs, all the furniture was around the edge of the room, and you weren't supposed to walk in the middle of the floor.

Something else to spend (too much) money on. . .

http://www.sundayriverproductions.com/category.aspx?id=6

http://www.amazon.com/Model-Railroading-John-Allen-Fabulous/dp/0890245592

I wonder if either is available via inter-library loan.

Reportedly the house was not destroyed by the fire, only damaged and later repaired, and is supposed to still be standing today.  Can anyone confirm this?

The fire was started by pure accident, one of the operators turned the furnace on(which John never did due to faultiness) and during the night burned the house down, and theres an actual collection of photos of the aftermath, and its not for the faint of heart. I have to say looking at those photos makes your heart drop.

A great place  for those interested is a yahoo group dedicated to the legend:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GandD/

tons of information as well as photos, replicas, stories, spin-offs and other neat stuff.



I also have the VHS of film footage of the G&D and seeing number 34 pull a string of cars just inspired me ever so greatly, and hence I feel in love with that locomotive. And now that I'm older and have the ability to construct a replica with a background of experience in kitbashing, and an accumulation of parts as well as years of "study" on the subject. I have to admit I'm a die-hard fan.

"Model Railroading with John Allen" was the only book when I was 3 that I didn't put crayon into, I guess the bug started when I was really young

Quote from: J3a-614 on March 05, 2010, 09:43:58 PM
Something else to spend (too much) money on. . .

http://www.sundayriverproductions.com/category.aspx?id=6

http://www.amazon.com/Model-Railroading-John-Allen-Fabulous/dp/0890245592

I wonder if either is available via inter-library loan.

Reportedly the house was not destroyed by the fire, only damaged and later repaired, and is supposed to still be standing today.  Can anyone confirm this?

these are items sought after believe me, worth every penny.

Rye's comments about replica locomotives here and in another thread suggest two questions:

How many modelers either have an older model railroad with many of the models we have been discussing still on it, have a model railroad where these older models are still worth having on it, or even have built a new railroad to look and feel like an older one?

And a corollary, suggested by Kalmbach layout planning writer Ian Rice, is what would John Allen do with the new stuff, such as DCC and sound effects, if he were around today?

Ian himself suggested, in a design intended as a tribute to Allen, that one could incorporate things like working landslides and collapsing bridges in addition to the 4% grades.  Hokey it may seem, and I certainly wouldn't do it, but Allen's sense of humor, with magnetic cars, a dinosaur, a fake snake, and a laugh box hooked into a control at Port to rattle the overtaxed operator there would suggest he just might do such things to take the supposedly revenue-challenged G&D to a new level. . .

C&O J3a 614

http://www.piercehaviland.com/rail/railimages/Njstea2.jpg

She's a proper locomotive, painted black, burns West Virginia coal, and doesn't wear skirts so she can show off those Boxpok legs!

Quote from: J3a-614 on March 05, 2010, 10:34:35 PM
How many modelers either have an older model railroad with many of the models we have been discussing still on it, have a model railroad where these older models are still worth having on it, or even have built a new railroad to look and feel like an older one?

Well, I can't say that I have anything that's specifically been discussed on this thread, but I do seem to have an awful lot of rolling stock, both locomotives and cars, from the early 1960s--and most of it accumulated only recently, within the past five years--and currently all the railroad buildings on the layout are genuine vintage Revell. How's that?

That's one answer!

Another possibility could be a layout specifically meant to recall an older one, something like what some of the tinplaters do when they recreate Lionel display layouts.  A store window display as a nostalgic Christmas piece would be one place--provided you could find a store owner willing to let you put a layout in the window.  The city of Martinsburg, W.Va. used to have a holiday "Model Railroad Showcase" sponsored by the local Main Street organization in which modelers built or placed model railroads in store windows as a way to get some people into town instead of shopping at a mall.  Themes included tinplate, nice HO and N scale jobs, and a regular large-scale North Pole fantasy line that featured Little Debbie tree-shaped cakes for trees and candy canes for logs on flat cars.  This hasn't been done for a while--wish they would bring it back.

Are the Revel kits still available from someone else?

Not counting my tinplate trains, my first HO loco was an Athearn F-7 with rubber band drive.  That was followed the the 0-4-2 "Little Monster" (a very apt name, as it turned out) and a Mantua Pacific kit.  A bit later I scratched togeter a few bucks and got a brass Ma & Pa 4-6-0 for $29.95.  Virtually all that old HO stuff is long gone since I moved to On3 about 30 years ago.

Quote from: J3a-614 on March 06, 2010, 08:49:37 AM
Are the Revel kits still available from someone else?

I can't say about the immediate present, but I know that at one time Con-Cor marketed kits that were identical to the old Revell "Trackside Buildings," and I think I remember the small-town passenger station and the farmhouse group, too.

I got my "Trackside Buildings," the passenger station, the farmhouse group, and the barn group, genuine Revell and already assembled--and very nicely, too--on eBay. I found them just by doing a search for "Revell" on the HO page on eBay.

ebay often has Central Valley freight kits which were terrific.  They would be equivalent to "craftsman" kits today.  Plus, they included CV trucks.  The down sides are that the CV kits are mostly truss rod types and the kits are pretty spendy due to their rarity and the outstanding trucks.

Central Valley trucks were great, and the arch-bar truck they sold was of a shorter wheelbase than normal, which was handy for certain prototypes--but I understand the wheelsets had a serious problem with the insulation decaying over time, resulting in short circuits, so if you have any of these trucks, you'll likely have to change out the wheels.

My brain cells keep on getting tickled--in this case with another form of motive power, an early diesel craftsman kit, in metal--the venerable, sadly now gone, Hobbytown of Boston. . .

http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/mrr4.html#hobbytwn

http://dsop.com/pipermail/prr-talk/2009-February/001622.html

A bargain here for those of metal kit persuation:

http://shop.ebay.com/items/hobbytown%20of%20boston?_dmd=1&_sop=12

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOBBYTOWN-OF-BOSTON-ALCO-1600-HP-ROAD-SWITCHER-KIT-LN--_W0QQitemZ130373298107QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100312?IMSfp=TL100312161011r9078

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobbytown-of-Boston-HO-EMD-E7-B-Unit-Body-Kit_W0QQitemZ400096502803QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item5d279c2413

Going to have to figure out how to use e-bay. . .

I've never seen anything by another more recent metal diesel builder, but supposedly Tiger Valley Models is still in business, just doesn't have a web site:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=58512

This is included as a reference, in this case primarily for those who may have been able to pick up an older brass engine at a bargain price.

http://brassbackshop.com/index.html

Also for reference, what used to be Pacific Fast Mail's special parts arm:

http://pweb.jps.net/~pia/

This firm used to be Kemtron, I believe, long, long ago--still has at least some parts, too. . .

http://psc1.virtualfocus.com/

At one time the firm (as Kemtron) had a couple of brass kits available in O and HO scales, among them a Wabash 2-6-0.  The kit was inspired by Mel Thornberg's last scratchbuilding series in Model Railroader, and I seem to recall some specialized parts were introduced by Kemtron for this model.  The prototypes gained notoriety as the last Wabash engines in steam, outlasting 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s because a bridge on the line they ran on couldn't take even the lightest diesels on the Wabash roster; one of the last four survives in St. Louis, Mo., at a museum there:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mogul/?page=wabash

http://transportmuseumassociation.org/images/exhibits/wabash573.jpg

The bid prices here look suspiciously low--or does someone not know what they have?

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3559677

Again, a reference item:

http://daveayers.com/Modeling/DTAM_6.htm

http://daveayers.com/Modeling/images/Brass/2-6-0_Mech.jpg

Bethlehem Car Works apparently has picked up a lot of dies and tooling for former Red Ball parts, including what looks like most, if not all, of the trucks:

http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Kit_Bits/index.html#Trucks

Wonder what else will turn up?

Quote from: J3a-614 on March 09, 2010, 07:03:15 AM
Central Valley trucks were great, and the arch-bar truck they sold was of a shorter wheelbase than normal, which was handy for certain prototypes--but I understand the wheelsets had a serious problem with the insulation decaying over time, resulting in short circuits, so if you have any of these trucks, you'll likely have to change out the wheels.

I have over 100 sets of these trucks and have never had an insulation problem.

It was probably decaying because someone used non plastic compatible lubes.

Both of you could be right.  This is just something I had heard about, including that this was supposedly the reason CV got out of the truck business.  Wonder what the real story might be?

I have had several sets of CV trucks on which the sideframes sort of crystalized and crumbled.  Maybe that's why.

A lot of my old stuff got upgraded over the years.  Plastic buildings from the fifties were modified and painted in the seventies and eighties, fiber tie flex track was torn up and reused for hidden trackage, old Tenshodo "howl & growl" brass locomotives were re powered with Athearn chassis and still form the core of my "heavy haul" fleet.  I still have some buildings scratch built out of cigarette packages on evenings spent on the road, and I haven't smoked for almost 30 years.  I have a few old kits still in their boxes, Varney, Athearn yellow box, and some old MDC when it really did mean Die Casting.  I have a few pre-magnetic Kadee couplers and even some Mantua ones to put on these old cars if I ever build them.

Then there is the old stuff - 50, 60 and 70 year old Lionel and Marx, some of it bought used for my four year old son who just turned 40.  My wife accuses me of being a junk collector.  Looking back over this list, maybe, just maybe, she is right.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Banner on April 11, 2010, 09:09:19 PM
My wife accuses me of being a junk collector.  Looking back over this list, maybe, just maybe, she is right.

Jim

One wife's junk is her husband's treasure. ...

To coin a phrase. ...  ;)  :D

Re:  Central Valley - the "original" CV trucks were outstanding, best in the hobby.  However, the original owner eventually sold the business.  When the trucks were re-issued, they were not up to the same quality as before.  I think they've been improved in recent years.   

A rarity--a restored Penn Line Reading Crusader (also posted in the Heavy Metal thread):

http://goingincirclez.com/Crusader

http://goingincirclez.com/FG/Crusader

http://goingincirclez.com/FG/Crusader?page=1

ebtnut-
There are no "recent years;" CV has been out of the truck business for a long time.

Stumbled onto this older site (hasn't been updated in a while), but it turns out to have assembly tips for working on Suydam (now Alpine Division) metal buildings.

http://hosteamcentral.com/index.html

http://hosteamcentral.com/sitemap.html

http://hosteamcentral.com/kits.html

Some early-style models this fellow was working on at the time:

http://hosteamcentral.com/bigboy.html

http://hosteamcentral.com/mantua.html

I think this is one of Bowser's versions:

http://hosteamcentral.com/t1steam.shtml

Enjoy.

Doneldon:  "Recent" is a relative term in this case.  IIRC, the original owner of Central Valley either passed away or sold the business sometime in the mid-1970's.  Whoever the new owner was did not maintain the same quality standards for the trucks.  That's why they discontinued doing trucks.  Also, I actually built one of those Crusader loco kits.  A colleague at my former office was a collector of sorts, and had squirelled one away.  He's since passed on, and I don't know what became of his collection. 

Continuing on, and not necessarily a strict kit page, but still something of a nostalgia piece is this history site:

http://ho-scaletrains.net/index.html

Sample search sequence (in this instance, AHM, then the B&O Big Six):

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscaletrainscollectorsresource/

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscaletrainscollectorsresource/id81.html

Samples from the Pacific Fast Mail section:

http://ho-scaletrains.net/id47.html

Check out the cutie on the cover of the 10th aniversary edition (but make sure your wife is elsewhere--and don't tell mine anything!):

http://ho-scaletrains.net/pacificfastmail/id124.html

Love the Howard Fogg painting for the cover of this one--steam railroading as we imagine it should be:

http://ho-scaletrains.net/pacificfastmail/id126.html

No mistaking the work of John Allen in the Sierra 38 page (click on to enlarge):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2729008782_4e911ce803_o.jpg

How many Canadian fans wish for one of these (from the 13th edition)?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3339460700_cf4afc34e0_o.jpg

A rarity, no doubt:

http://ho-scaletrains.net/id30.html

I'll let you explore the rest.

Have fun!

EBT- The CV plastic stock cars are sure a dim reflection of their Old Timers kits from days gone by.  I was so disappointed when I purchased one.  D