Here is my sophomoric attempt at kitbashing a 1970's Mantua Mikado:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2035.jpg)
Numbered it #61 for my birth year.
Replaced the tender with a Varney I detailed, featuring all-wheel pick up for smoother running (thanks, Woody). Replaced the plastic pilot with a cast one. Installed a can "wormfly" motor.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN1966.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2048.jpg)
Had to file out the shell to get the motor to fit. Added details made of brass, white metal, paperclips and staples (some Yardbird stuff, some homemade stuff). Installed a constant lighting circuit (thanks to forum members for electrons 101). The circuit gets warm when energized. Is that normal?
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2027.jpg)
On the upside, the engine runs great. Don't know how much it pulls, yet.
On the downside, my finish ended up with an orange peel effect. What causes that? I think it led to my decals not looking so professional, as well. That being said, I didn't sweat the details on the cab very much. I intend to replace it with a cast cab, when/if I find one that's a more appropriate size. The present plastic cab is a bit small.
I had some leftover brass stanchions (from an old Pocher engine), so I drilled out the tops and made flag stands out of them. Just need to figure out how to make 1:87 flags (paper, plastic, or thin brass maybe?).
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2052.jpg)
Hopefully, I finally cured the engine building bug. I certainly went a bridge too far on this one (frankenengine). I have noticed of late, some of you share my affliction. Don't have the gumption to weather it, yet. And yes, I went a little crazy with the crown of pop valves. But this engine will stand out in a crowd, don't you think?
Just wanted to share my idea of fun.
Regards,
Jonathan
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2030.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2033.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2034.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2039.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2044.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2047.jpg)
outstanding, everything looks perfect except i would've ground off the feed water heater but thats just personal preference ;)
Jon - I find it hard to believe that the tender in the pictures is the same sad thing I sent you months ago.
Those old Mantua engines will run forever given a little TLC. I'd love to see how the can motor affects performance. Those old Mantua -Tyco PM motors ran really fast.
Keep up the good work Jon!
Thanks, Rye Guy.
I don't get along well with power tools, so I hand filed everything, even removing the material to fit the motor. After a while, one gets too tired to take off the unprototypical stuff. Also, I don't know a whole lot about steam engines (except I like 'em). I wouldn't know a feed water heater from a hole in the ground. I just add what I like, or what I see in pictures.
Regards,
Jonathan
Jonathan,
Great job!!!! Thanks for sharing the pics.
Old Timer
Thanks, Woody.
You helped inspire me with the old tender. That stuff has historical value to me, and well worth rescuing, whenever possible.
Regards,
Jonathan
p.s. I'll be showing off the Bowser, if the blankety decals ever show up.
p.p.s. Thank you, too, Old Timer
Hi Jonathan;
Looks great!!
Have you seen John Swanson's series on Steam from Kits that appeared in RMC many years (decades) ago? You should try to get those issues for more ideas on your fleet. ;D
The building bug is just starting to get hold of you :)
Re-orange peel - could be several things; 1st - cleanliness of the model; should be cleaned with solvent (isopropyl alcohol is good) and pickeled in vingear (see Bowser's instruction sheets). next paint too thick
You mean this disease won't just go away? Perhaps, if I rescue a John English and a Penn Line, then I'll get healthy again. Thought the Varney, Bowser and Mantua would make me all better.
R, J
p.s. AHA! That must be it. I pickled the last two engines. Didn't pickle this one. An important step I'll never leave out again. Thanks, Nigel
YJon - ou mean you haven't already gotten a Varney Casey Jones yet?
I'm telling you that the only amtidote for the "Bowser Bug" is to keep playing with old relics.
Kidding aside, the Mantua/Tyco engines were always the easist to assemble and once broken in, ran well. Now you know what made the hooby fun for me. To take a kit engine and get it to run was always a challenge.
You have now have a one of a kind B&O mike! No one can nit pick it - there's no prototype!
Woody,
You are so right. I kept looking for a Mike to copy, but none were quite what Mantua had designed. The closest were a few B&Os that actually had the headlight on the front. So I just copied the parts I liked on all the prototypes. Fortunately, I found a B&O Mike that had the compressor below the walkway, so I had less filing to do. It might be just me, but the whole shell seems to sit a little high off the chassis. The engine reminds me of the shape of a modern autocarrier.
Still, I will be keeping an eye out for a cab that's a little more proportional.
Regards,
Jonathan
I honestly think the number boards give it a really nice touch I might try that when I dive back into doing a mike, and another thing you can add if possible is spring details for the drivers so you can hide the motor more ;)
Yes, I was not going to add the number boards, since I never found a photo of a Mike with boards. But the Yardbird detail kit came with them, so the worst that could happen is I just have to fill in the holes I drilled. After I put them on, they looked so nice, I had to keep them.
BTW I don't want to seem like a walking advertisement for Yardbird, but the Mike detail kit is very nice. I also purchased the extra piping for the fireman side of the engine. The piping kits are brass, but the rest of the kit is white metal. That stuff seems softer than the Zamack the boiler is made of. Fortunately those parts sit close to the shell, so it's hard to do any damage once they are epoxied in place.
Also, I highly recommend the can "wormfly' motor. The difference in running is night and day compared to the original, open frame, motor. I recall, as a kid, the Mantua could only pull a few cars before bogging down. I'm up to nine cars, so far, with the new motor. Still breaking in the loco, so just doing a little at a time. The new motor is very smooth and strong.
The headlight comes on at around 20% power and the engine starts to move at about 32-34%. By 60%, it's running at about the speed at which I like to operate. I'm very satisfied so far. Honestly, I think the painting is the hardest part. I haven't been wowed by my paint jobs on any project, yet. I know, "airbrush" you will say. I may have to consider that before my next engine project.
regards,
Jonathan
I have 5 mantua engines, most were built back in the 70's and 1 was from the sixties. They all run like a top even with the old motors. They haven't been run much lately, but if you put one on the track, it stumbles for a second and off it goes.
Mantua and Tyco cranked those engines out by the thousand. My first steamer was the 0-6-0 tank engine. I put a valve gear kit on it but have no recollection of what happened to it ( the same thing happens when I look for car keys.)
As for the boiler sitting high, the boiler is free-lanced and could use a longer cab.. I heard someone say once that the boiler sat high to clear the original motor they used - a DC-71 with an enclosed gearbox.
I can't wait to see Jon's G-5 with PRR lettering!
Quote from: Woody Elmore on March 21, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
Mantua and Tyco cranked those engines out by the thousand. My first steamer was the 0-6-0 tank engine.
With all the weight of that solid metal cast superstructure, those little engines could pull just about anything. Still can. :)
Thanks Jon for your great photos, and information. I have an eBay find Mantua Pacific in Chessie Steam Specials paint. Runs OK but the motor is a bit unpleasantly buzzy and does not do that well at slow speeds. I will look to Yardbird for a new can motor replacement. I have done business with them before, indeed they are fine folks.
BTW, did you use an airbrush on the B&O project? I remember you said you were not using one during the 0-4-0 Dockside project. I note the detail on the loco and tender look too fine to have been painted with a spray can (?). When I changed from the can to the airbrush it was like the difference between night and day :D
Robert
Some people have taken the boiler off the pacific and used it on the mike. I have never liked the boiler on the mike. It is not round. I have one which I used a John English boiler on.
Robert,
I used spray cans this time as well. However, this time I started with flat black (after a thin primer coat). On my last two engines I started with gloss black.
I found the flat black went on thinner, more evenly and quickly. Got into all the nooks and crannies better as well. The only draw back was I had to spray on a gloss clear coat to decal. Seemed like, this time, I was forever adding clear coats to get the look I wanted. From a few feet away, the finish is beautiful. Up close, it looks pretty bumpy (i.e. orange peel). Perhaps you can see what I mean in this shot:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2022.jpg)
I sometimes forget to step back and realize the smallness of the models we are working on. It's no wonder we get so nit picky and are never satisfied. It's incredibly difficult to get something so small to look so real.
I can't say enough good things about the can motor. The engine is surprisingly quiet and strong. I was very impressed by it's performance.
Just as an aside. I'm adding a little weight to the front of the tender in the morning. Under a load (over eight cars) the front truck wants to derail on a left turn (24" radius). It could be a little stiff, too, because of my all-wheel pick up job. Seems like a minor issue I should be able to clear up in a few minutes.
Woody, I can't wait to finish the Bowser myself. I think I finally found a set of Pennsy decals from Microscale. They are only in stock at WKW but my LHS was able to order them for me (no shipping).
Regards,
Jonathan
Try using some neolude on that brass gear to help hide it. That is the only thing I see wrong on that engine. Beautiful job. Micro-mark sells the neolube, check it out and see what it can do/
Thanks, PD.
I will check into the neolube. The big worm is very noticeable. Rye Guy mentioned adding some spring detail above the drivers, to hide the gear. That would be an interesting project.
I did add a little weight to the front of the tender this morning. I was able to pull 16 cars, with no derailments. So that went well. Haven't reached the upper limit of pulling power, yet.
The engine is very quiet and smooth running forward. It is pretty noisy in reverse for some reason. Don't intend to run it backwards, so I'll let that go for now.
Regards,
Jonathan
out of curiosity, what kind of noise is it?
Noise is hard to describe. There is a general metal quality to it, but not grindy. I haven't isolated it , yet. Could be the mechanism. I have my doubts about that. It was rolling like glass before I started assembling the rest of the parts. Also, I ran the engine without the boiler, in forward and reverse prior to final assembly. It was quiet at that time. It does seem to work harder in reverse (requires more voltage).
One possibility is the clearance between the worm gear and the boiler. Once the engine was put together, I turned the worm with my pinkie to make sure it wasn't touching anything but the drive gear. I suppose there is a possibility when the engine goes in reverse, that the worm gear shifts just ever so slightly, enough to touch the boiler. If that were the case, I would think the engine would short out and quit running. I'm hoping this is the answer. It would be pretty easy to remove the boiler and file out just a skosh more material.
I don't see any detail parts touching the wheels, valve gear or drive rods, but it would be noisy in both directions, if that were the case. I know sometimes, the linkages attached to the eccentric crank, will shift in and out, depending on the direction of travel. I haven't noticed that on this engine so far. Plus, I painted the mechanism. I would see scratches or paint removal is something were causing friction.
At this point, I consider the issue minor. If it really starts to bother me, I'll post a video of it's behavior, and we can diagnose it as a group.
Thanks for asking.
Regards,
Jonathan
Good job and great pics
to pipefitter - if you change the motor on your Tyco Pacific you'll get a nice running engine. Those Mantua PM 1 motors just aren't up to the task.
I agree with Woody.
My original Mantua Motor is in great shape--it's just too weak to pull a large engine and a consist. I'm saving the motor to use in a smaller, switcher loco. It would be perfect in some sort of tank engine.
Regards,
Jonathan
The neolube is not a paint, but a lubricant that will darken anything it is out on. careful though, because it also can conduct electricity
(http://www.micromark.com/RS/SR/Product/83181_R.jpg)
Quote micro mark.
"Description
NeolubeTM Lubricates, Blackens Metal and Improves Electrical Conductivity
Neolube is a water-thin graphite/alcohol solution that brushes on metal surfaces smoothly and levels perfectly without streaking. When the alcohol evaporates, a thin, tough, dark matte-gray coating is left behind that works like a dry lubricant, a metal blackener and an electrical conductor all in one. It is ideal for blackening locomotive wheels, steam locomotive side rods and other model linkages for a more prototypical appearance and improved electrical contact. 2 fl. oz. jar includes in-cap brush.
Note: Please use caution when coating insulated model railroad wheels with Neolube. Neolube may electrically bridge the insulation, causing the wheels or driver rims to short to the axle. Running the tip of a knife blade across the gap is one way to open the short if it occurs; it would be better to avoid applying Neolube across the insulating gap."
My experience with a club's Bowser K-11 suggests the possibility that you may simply be getting resonance in the boiler casting. That 4-6-2's mechanism ran freely on a glass sheet, and was nice and quiet running without the boiler, but when the boiler was added, we got a loud buzzing sound. Nothing seemed to be touching internally (this model didn't have a backhead, and the motor--which was mounted on its side in this engine--came into the cab), yet the noise persisted. Tapping on the boiler shell revealed the same "tone;" the thing had a resonance in it. Essentially, it rang like a bell! In doing so, it amplified all the noises in the engine like a resonator box. Some electrical tape applied in the shell and in other key locations to dampen the vibrations helped considerably.
I won't guarentee this is what you have, but it may be something to look at.
Isn't this fun?
PD,
That neolube looks great! I wondered how some folks got their drivers and rods such a nice, even dark color. That goes on my next shopping list.
J3a-614
I was contemplating puting fiber washers between the frame and boiler connecting points. Good tip.
Jonathan
When I was modeling HO and running to keep a fleet of Penn Line and Bowser engines running, there were lots of tricks . For example pieces of an old bike inner tube would be used sort of like grommets where metal touched metal. It would be inserted between metal parts like a washer. I also remember one guy who used rubber glue to attach inner tube pieces to the inside of a boiler to cut down on noise.
I also had a NYC K-11 that buzzed along like a bee. Bowser later modified the frame to take a DC-71. I wonder if there is a difference is the way the newer engines sounded and ran.
This noise wasn't just happening in steamers. I had a Hobbytown powered FT A-B unit with all trucks powered from one motor, It made a very distinctive growling noise that was amplified with the cast tops in place. This engine could pull just about anything the club had. We had it up to 50 cars at one time.
You can also put little dabs of caulk in safe places to attenuate the vibrations.
Quote from: Woody Elmore on March 22, 2010, 08:57:55 PMto pipefitter - if you change the motor on your Tyco Pacific you'll get a nice running engine. Those Mantua PM 1 motors just aren't up to the task.
Quote from: jonathan on March 23, 2010, 06:57:31 AM
My original Mantua Motor is in great shape--it's just too weak to pull a large engine and a consist. I'm saving the motor to use in a smaller, switcher loco. It would be perfect in some sort of tank engine ...
Thanks Guys,
I look forward to getting some new life in this loco and painting some Athearn 72' clerestory roof coaches to match. Should make a handsome train :D
Robert
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4460690736_1c8ccec509.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4460690570_980a0111b1.jpg)
That's a great paint scheme. I saw something very similar on the Yardbird website. The modeler had made an auxillary water tender and painted it up the same way.
That engine deserves a new motor and some little touches. Ooh, what I would do to that baby... ;)
Regards,
Jonathan
Jon - There are lots of Tyco pacifics out there and one of them is awaiting your magic! Since you like "Beano" prototypes that engine would fit right into your growing roster of kit built engines..
A previous post mentioned a boiler swap with the Mike. You also have to swap cylinders; still not a big deal. Then you'd have nice looking mike. This is another project for you.
So what's with the PRR decals- are they being shipped from Kazakstan?
Murphy has been haunting me every step of the way ::).
Quote from: jonathan on March 25, 2010, 10:38:14 AM
Murphy has been haunting me every step of the way ::).
Murphy was an optimist. ... ::)
I think the Mantua is better than the Tyco. Same on the outside, but I don't think they are on the inside.
Here's a little update:
I switched out tenders this morning. The Mantua now has a Penn Line cast tender.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2068.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2069.jpg)
My Bowser project had the Penn Line, but it couldn't pull more than nine cars, due to the weight of the tender. The Bowser will get the Varney tender, as soon as I can put some Pennsy decals on it.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2070.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2071.jpg)
I detailed this tender some time ago, and it lights up, too. I like tender lights:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN1742.jpg)
Just another little shot of clear coat, and I should be able to make the decal line disappear.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2072.jpg)
The Mike can still pull 20 cars, and the heavy tender, without wheel slippage so far (fingers crossed).
Regards,
Jonathan
p.s.
The Bowser is still a work in progress, but it's close to being done.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Yardbird/DSCN2073.jpg)
To those of you who offered words on engine noises, I believe it was J3a-614, Doneldon, Woody and Daylight4449:
While I was switching tenders, I placed a little electrical tape on the cradle where the boiler rests. Additionally, I put a fiber washer between the two spots in the rear, where the boiler screws to the frame. That took care of the extra noise the engine was making in reverse. Sounds the same in both directions now. Thanks for that.
Now you've made me curious... can I get this engine "Spectrum" quiet? I ran the engine for about 30 minutes, pulling a 20-car consist, listening for noises. I can detect the weight of the wheels on the rails. That sound will never go away. The Mike is just heavy.
Also, I detect a slight "growl" that seems to be the noise of the two gears meshing (guess); and a very faint, high-pitched ringing... faint, but detectable. The worm is brass, and the drive gear is plastic. Perhaps melding two materials causes a noise all its own.
The next time I have cause to lift the boiler, I will try the caulk and/or tape trick inside the shell.
Has anyone ever made a cover plate, for the drive gear, that would fit under the frame? I see them on brass models. Also, has anyone ever made a housing that would fit around the gear meshing area? I wonder if heat becomes an issue if one tries to insulate the motor/gear sounds too much...
Regards,
Jonathan
Nice work! Have you remotored either unit, like with a motor from yardbird?
Thanks, PD.
Yes, the Mantua has a Yardbird, can motor installed. Nice motor, indeed.
I actually bought the last DC-71 skew wound motor that Bowser had in stock. That went into the Bowser, in an attempt to keep it as much a Bowser as possibble. That motor is strong, but wheel traction is an issue. I'm hoping the lighter, plastic tender will help get the G5 up to about a dozen car train.
R,
J
I'm going to replace my dc71 with a yardbird motor as the current draw on my mike is higher than I'd like for being controlled by a decoder
I've isolated the motors on all my little build projects, but I use the force. The dark side has not taken over my layout. With a garage layout, I doubt I could keep the tracks clean enough for reliable DCC operations.
Regards,
Jonathan
I understand, my basement is dry and comfortable.
Jonathan;
Glad the sound-deadening tips started out so well. Here are some ideas that may help you and other obsessed with modeling locomotives the old-fashioned way. As this is intended as something of a reference, it will cover some tuning tips you undoubtedly already are using.
We'll start with a bit of philosophy, for lack of a better term. The most important thing is to give yourself the invaluable and essential gifts of patience and time. Atlas Tool Company's older plastic structure kits, such as for the station and the lumber yard, admonish the builder "to take your time and get your money's worth." The actual time taken to build these and other kits and projects is recreation time; why not take a little longer to get it right? In this respect, I must strongly agree with the Atlas commentary. This is a liesure activity; why rush it?
The second one is to try to have a good working space. The late Bill Schopp of RMC loco conversion and construction fame, once advocated that the best sort of workbench was one that was kind of high, like a watchmaker's bench (which Schopp was). This enabled him to look at the work at eye level much of the time with a minimum of bending, and enabled him to hold up models (and watches) by resting his ams on the bench, and not relying entirely on his muscles, which did wonders for reducing fatigue, which in turn helped reduce the chances of dropping things.
You undoubtedly already know that locomotive mechanism construction essentially is adding parts, one at a time, making sure each new part turns freely, and than adding the nest part or pair of parts, and repeating the procdess. A good way to do this is to test roll a mechanism during this process on a piece of track, without motor or gears, relying on feel as much as sight to look for binds. A refinement of this is to use a piese of glass, which is slipperier than track. If such a mechanism will roll without binds, with just the weight of its frame, it will roll nicely with the motor and gears pushing it.
Gear mesh is important. The gears should mesh tightly enough to minimize play, but not so tightly as to be a source of uneeded friction. Mantua Metal Products used to advise in their instruction sheets that the recommended clearance was about the thickness of a of a sheet of paper between worm and worm gear, or between gear teeth. This practice would also maximuze gear life by reducing grinding (which you get if setting too deep) and minimizing the chances of gear stripping (if set too shallow). There were also tricks for motor tuning (this was with open-frame motors), which revolved about keeping brushes in good condition, the commutator clean, and minimizing end play in the motor itself. I confess, I didn't quite figure out how to reduce motor play properly, and some had quite a bit of it.
Lubrication was important (and still is). The basic principle of oiling sparingly was and is important, the main differnce being the modern lubricants that are now available. It used to be we used petroleum jelly (such as Vaseline) for gear grease, and sewing machine oil for rotating bearings, both of which are much thicker and heavier that the special oils and greases we now have available.
This post is looking a bit long, so I'll continue it in a second section.
Jonathan,
I hope I haven't sounded too pompous about this, as you already know a great deal about these older models. It's just that I hope this sort of thing can be sort of a reference for others who also like to work on these beasties.
You were also asking about how you might reduce the sound levels even further. I can't guarentee these ideas will work, but they may be of some help.
Locomotive noise, as I would describe it, has two major components. One is the primary noise itself, such as wheels running on rail, gears grinding or just meshing, bearing noise (if it squeaks, get out the oil), and secondary or amplifying effects, as you have observed in the case of your boiler shell.
Primary noise basically comes from parts moving or scraping against each other. The best way to reduce this is to make sure the parts mesh or otherwise interact smoothly. Proper fit is important, as are smooth working surfaces and proper lubrication. A prototype steamer illustrates this this with the noises its rods make. A newly shopped engine, or one with roller bearing rods, has almost no rod noise because everything is fitted with minimal play or slop. This is in strong contrast to an engine with worn rod bearings, as it moves along with a very audible clunka-clunk-clunka-clunk-clunka-clunk that can often be heard in all running conditions, but is most pronounced when drifting or coasting.
The amplifying effects come from parts that resonate and otherwise amplify the sounds from primariy sources. This is what can happen with boiler shells of relatively hard metal, such as Zamac. As noted, such a shell can actually "ring" like a bell. Any primary vibration in the engine is thus amplified, sometimes with amazing results. Cures for this can include isolating the ringing amplifyer from the vibration source (fiber washers and rubber tape in the smokebox saddle for your Mike), deadening the ringing component by mating it with other materals to dampen the vibrations (rubber or even additional weight, such as a bismuth alloy called Cerro-Bend, which can be had in alloys that melt at the temperature of hot water), or making things like the superstructure from materials that are accoustically "dead," which is to say they absorb vibrations themselves, and don't "ring" (lead vs. Zamac in the case of some older Carey superstructures).
In the case of your Mike, you seem to have parts that mate well, and I assume you've used proper lubrication. You also have apparently used an enclosed replacement motor, and these are usually quieter than an open-frame job. What remains is likely gear noise (although this should be minimal with one of the gears in brass and the other in what is likely nylon), with whatever noise is in the motor itself, combined with whatever amplifyng effects the shell itself may still be contributing (some vibrations may still be getting through your isolating rubber). My suggestions would be to first add a little tape or rubber inside the shell to dampen whatever vibrations may still be getting through (this is the easiest job, by the way), of course making sure the motor still has adquate air space. As an experiment, I would also try a good heavy lubricant on the gears, like the Vaseline mentioned above (although this is in some ways like the practice shady car mechanics used to use of adding sawdust into badly worn transmissions and differentals to disguise the grinding they would make). A little cover over the gears, as you suggested, could also help by not letting sound get out. Finally, some more running time may help, as gears and other parts wear into each other as they "break in."
Good luck on what you're trying to do; let us know how things work out.
Finally, I have to reply to Woody about Bowser NYC K-11s.
The engine I got to work on was a later version, with the DC-71 motor mounted on its side. Buzzing like a bee--oh, yes! Funny thing, this passenger engine had the best low-speed characteristics of anything I had seen, including any switchers we had, and would be as good as anything out today except that it had no flywheel. I think this came from the very fat worm that Bowser used, which would have had an great deal of gear reduction. This worm was mounted on its own shaft which ran in a pair of die-cast pillow blocks; this system, which Bowser also used in its 4-6-6-4s, was claimed to practically guarentee correct gear mesh.
Your comments about a Hobbytown FT set also reminded me of a story about another of the firm's products, a replacement drive for Athearn's GP7. This drive was said to have a large flywheel that took up much of the space in the cab of the Geep, and that some wise guy painted a candy-stripe pattern on the outer edge. This was visible through the cab windows, and the effect as the wheel turned was said to be "psychadelic!"
I have a Hobbytown Alco PA to put together someday, and all that metal in it, including all the gears and shafts (and didn't those gears come from Boston Gear Works?), make me think that, like their prototypes, Hobbytown's diesels should be considered "honorary" (model) steam olcomotives. . .
Looking, listening and watching should be something that is also done. For an example. My sd45 spectrum had a very unusual habit of rocking once during changes of direction. After looking, listening and watching, I noticed the motor was turning in its plastic bracket, not much but enough to rock the engine once in a direction change. A couple of paper shims between the metal frame and motor solved the problem. The motor was loose enough to turn 5-10 degrees and when it stopped, it would rock the engine.
Jon - Some Pennsy fans will find those "Beano" decals on a Pennsy tender very unsettling. The Varney tender is a little closer in design to the actual G-5 tenders.
As for the comment that Mantua was better than Tyco - it depends on which time period the engine was manufactured. I haven't seen a very late model but I was told that near the end they stopped using those "u" shaped driver bearings.
Re: an enclosed gear box /cover plate - the original Mantua engines had a dc-71 motor and an enclosed gearbox. I doubt that the retainer plate would fit the later open frame models.
Wow!
I appreciate what you've done here. For reasons I cannot get into here, don't have time for a proper response. Will get back to you in a few days.
Thanks a million!
Woody, don't worry the tender and and loco will be properly Pennsi-fied (sp)!
V/R,
Jon
I think it was Tyco that stopped using those "u" shaped driver bearings.
J3a-614,
I really appreciate the time you took to share some great tips for those of us who seem to be hopelessly lost in resurrecting old metal engines. I took the family on a trip, during Spring Break, and didn't want to advertise that I wasn't home to the whole world. Made it back safe and the trains survived my absence. :)
I enjoyed your philosophy the most. Patience and time seem to be the hardest commodities in any undertaking, but oh so important.
My work bench stands just a little shy of 50". I stand while I work. It seems to help me concentrate/focus a little better. Also, it is great 'elbow' height, as you mentioned.
As far as building goes, I will be revisiting your tips when I get the valve gear for my Li'l Joe. That will be some delicate work indeed.
I will be attempting to tweak the noises in the near future (on the Mikado). As mentioned before, the most noise is just wheels on the rails. The other noises are faint, not annoying, but it will be fun to see how quiet I can get this baby.
Many thanks for your lessons.
Regards,
Jonathan
Okay. Then try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/GN-Live-Steam-2-10-2-By-Sunset-BRASS-HO-UP_W0QQitemZ200458967367QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item2eac491947
Again, I must thank you for your kind words.
I don't know if you've seen this thread, but if you haven't, here are some other old-style things for reference and in some cases to keep your old engines company.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12480.0.html
After all, model railroaders do not live by locomotives alone!
Not to worry, my friend, I've been reading along with the rest of the class.
Someone else likes old HO, too. (Also posted in Early Time Kits)
http://goingincirclez.com/Crusader
http://goingincirclez.com/FG/Crusader
http://goingincirclez.com/FG/Crusader?page=1
Enjoy.