Hello all,
Since Bachman doesn't make track (I hope) I think I can drop a name here. I'm using Atlas 83 track and switches. I've got a problem with SOME switches. I only have two locos at the moment. I'm just getting into this hobby. A 3 truck Shay and a 40 ton GE switcher. Both these locos have a problem on the curve side of the switch. When comming up the bottom toward the split and going to the curve the front trucks want to slide off the outer track slightly until they get to a point in the curve. Then the inner wheel of the truck will bump or jump. Sometimes going where it's supposed to. Other times not. This is rather hard to explain without a picture! Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has had this problem and been able to solve it? Thanks for any help you might be able to give.
Bruce
I had a problem with my H16-44 like that the other day. It kept jumping on a crossing. I use code 83 atlas as well and found that a coupler was a touch low. When I fixed it the problem went away.
Agreed.
I had the same problem. The coupler trip pins (bent wire hanging down off the coupler) needed to be adjusted. A kadee coupler guage will help you immensely. Trip pins that are little too low, will catch on turnouts every time, always causing derailments. Most of us have learned that the hard way.
BTW Bachmann does sell track (EZ track). Not to worry, you can mention other manufactureres. Just keep it polite (per code of conduct). The other company's aren't here to defend themselves.
Regards, and good luck.
Jonathan
I thank you for your advice but I have one question. How do I get the track gauge to run over the switch area? The one I've got (KayDee) only fits in between regular track. Your idea does sound riteous though. I'll see if I can eyeball it!
Bruce
The trip pin should be about 1/32" above the rail
The track gauge does not run through the turnout.
Set the gauge on a piece of straight track and set the loco on the same piece of track. Push the gauge up to the loco. The couplers should mate, be at the same height, and the trip pin on the engine coupler should clear the little shelf on the bottom of the gauge that Kadee calls the "foot plate."
If the trip pin hits the foot plate, the pin needs to be adjusted upward so it misses. Kadee makes a special tool (item #237), or you can use a pair of needle nose pliers to gently adjust the trip pin.
If you would like to gauge the distance between the rails and the spacing through the flangeways, consider buying an NMRA track and wheel gauge. It will also tell you if the spacing between the wheels is correct.
For those who are all thumbs on at least one hand, here are five rules of thumb for derailments around turnouts. For those with only two thumbs, well, you can read them anyway.
(1) Do many of your locomotives and cars derail at the particular turnout or only one or two? If only one or two, the problem is more like with those cars/locomotives than with the turnout itself.
(2) Are the rails in gauge? How about the flangeways? No use messing with the turnout if you don't know what, if anything, is wrong with it.
(3) Are the wheels that derail in gauge? Check with a track and wheel gauge to find out and adjust accordingly if necessary. Be sure to use the gauge parallel to the axle, not at an angle.
(4) Is the turnout and tracks connected directly to it flat? They do not have to be level, but they do need to be in the same plane with no horizontal or vertical kinks. A change in grade (slope) in or next to a turnout is virtually guaranteed to cause derailments.
(5) Are the moveable point rails closing tight against the stationary stock rails when the switch is thrown? If not, the wheels on one side may try to go one way and the wheels on the other side to go the other way.
Just in case you have some spare thumbs on the other hand, here is another rule of thumb for turnouts:
(6) If the problem is with a steam locomotive, is the locomotive balanced? The center of gravity and thus the point of balance should be above the center drive axle. If there is an even number of drivers on each side, the center of gravity should be above a point midway between the center pair of driving axles. All too often locomotives with smoke units are light in the front end and the front drivers rise enough to lift the pony truck off the rails. If can look like a problem with the pony truck but is actually a balance problem. Removing the smoke unit and stuffing the space full of lead often solves the problem.
If it is any consolation, the real railroads have to worry about these things too, except possibly item six. If a real world locomotive were out of balance, I suspect they would first fire the designer and then pour concrete to add weight to one end or the other.
Please feel free to add to this list.
Jim
from what you describe it doesn't sound to me like the trip pins are the problem. if it were the trip pins, you'd notice the locomotive jump or hesitate when the pin caught. if you are using plastic couplers, you'd notice the coupler sagging after a few such snags.
is the point in the curve where the wheels climb the rail the polace where the moveable point rail pivots, and the solid rail leading to the frog begins? if so, try carefully filing the blunt end of the solid rail. from my experience with atlas switches, this is a problem area. if yourun your finger along this rail you will often feel the bump at the end of the point. this is most likely what derails your locomotive.....
God, I can't believe the amount of help you all have given me, thanks! OK, It's not the pin. After looking very closely I can see that the first and second drive trucks on the Shay are NOT turning enough going into the turn. They jump the track and continue on straight. If I give the lead truck just the slightest help starting the turn, it seems to then finish the turn OK. I flipped the loco over and looked for obvious signs of hanging up and couldn't find any. I put a little (very little) white grease on the drive axle spline and the screw holding the truck on. Didn't help! So, is this a problem with the switch or the truck? I said in the first post my switcher has a little jump to it also making this turn, but it does make it. I'm open to suggestions.
Bruce
you are saying that the shay starts to derail when it hits the switchpoints? file the ends of the points so that they are nice and sharp. your wheels are probably catching the end of the point and the flanges are riding the tops of the rail from that point until where they finally derail. if you illuminate the area with bright light and carefully watch what the wheels do you should see this happenning. if you put a bevel in the ends of the points it will help guide the wheel flanges where they are supposed to go.
I'll check that out and let you know, TO-MORR-OW
Good night!
Bruce
Hello all,
Well I stole my wife's makeup mirror and with my xenon flashlite got a very cloeup look at the inboard trucks as it goes into that switch. The leading wheel is slicing the switch rail and following the inboard rail straight instead of following the switch piece to turn. I've tried bending the leading edge of the switch piece slightly both in and out without sucess. Any other suggestions? I'm about to go get another switch and do the "switch switch!"
Bruce
You definitely need to get an NMRA-type track & wheel gauge. It will allow you to determine whether the track / switch is the problem or if the wheels are out of gauge. They are available directly from the NMRA (you don't have to be a member) or for a higher price, from Micro-Mark.
NMRA H0 scale standards gauge ($12 for non-members):
https://www.nmrastores.com/Public_Store/product_info.php?products_id=53&osCsid=64mlpf1r7hipclej3mv22psq64 (https://www.nmrastores.com/Public_Store/product_info.php?products_id=53&osCsid=64mlpf1r7hipclej3mv22psq64)
Micro-Mark H0 scale standards gauge ($18.50):
http://www.micromark.com/NMRA-GAGE-HO-SCALE,7530.html?sc=WGB&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleBase (http://www.micromark.com/NMRA-GAGE-HO-SCALE,7530.html?sc=WGB&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleBase)
For more information on getting your RR to work well including track & wheel tuneup, see the NMRA's beginners pages at:
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/ (http://www.nmra.org/beginner/)
Look at this article on troubleshooting derailments:
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/derailments.html (http://www.nmra.org/beginner/derailments.html)
Generally speaking, if only one piece of rolling stock derails, it is an out of gauge situation with the wheels on that piece of rolling stock. If several pieces of rolling stock derail at a single point, it is the fault of the switch or track work at that point. Application of a track & wheel gauge will save you a lot of time, as well as the frustration of changing something (like the turnout) without solving the problem.
One other thought: Have you checked to see that the turnout is level, along with the rest of the track on the approach and departure. Vertical 'kinks' can also produce derailments on various equipment.
If you determine it is the turnout, you probably need to file the points or bend them a little further to get good operation. Exchanging the turnout without really identifying the problem usually isn't very productive.
Hope this helps.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Bruce,
What you observed is called "picking the switch". If you can't file/bend the switch point then a new switch may be in order. But it is the point that needs fixing.
Are you using Atlas code 83 custom line or snap switches? I have had problems with the snap switches that don't close all the way, the custom lines do.
Bending the point rail will not solve your problem. You need to file the point of the point off at about a 45 degree angle.....just a little of it. File a little and then test. And while you're at it, you might as well do them both.
I'm chicken!! OK I'll try. and to answer the last question there regular snap sw's.
Bruce
Okay, you're using snap switches. how do you throw them, manually or automatically? What kind of switch machine do you use?
It's an Atlas Snap Switch so it must be automatic! Sorry I just couldn't pass that one up! Anyway, You know it's hard to use a file down there in that track. Soooo I took out my niffty Dremal tool. Using a carbide wheel, t'was easy to file that sucker down to needle point. So the outcome is the Shay is now making the turn about 80-85% of the time. Is that OK? Sure is better that it was! I really want to thank you all again for all the help and stick-to-it-ness you showed me. I hope I can pay this forward some time in the future. Oh, and if anyone happens to know about the next post I put up I'd sure like to hear about that! Thanks again.
Bruce
You know what, I just figured out what you ment by manual or automatic! Sorry about that. Your talking about me doing it vs automation doin it. What a dummy I am! anyway, it's me. I'f I ever get an answer to my next question it might be "automatic". Again, sorry about that.
Bruce
So your switches are manually operated. Are you using the atlas manual switch machines? Is it something like this?
(https://secure.atlasrr.com/mmMOD1/Images/543%20Code%2083%20Switch%20right.jpg)
only you can decide whether 80-85% troble free is good enough. but i suspect that if you are careful you can do better than that.
you used a dremel, you were lucky. while dremels are good for grinding alot of material quickly, i've found them a bit hard to control in situations that call for finesse, such as your switchpoint. while it is tedious, i've found working with a needle file is far better. while the 45 degree angle on the end of the point that somebody else recommended helps a bit, you'll get better results from a much shallower anglke to the bevel on the poinr. i'd use a matchstick or something similar to block the point open, then file along the side of the point near the end to sharpen the end. you don't HAVE to get the point end razor sharp, but you'll need to get it close.
the idea here is to hide the point. careful observation by sighting down your swith should reveal eithr a small recess in the stock rail that accepts the point, or a slight kink just ahead of the point that forces the wheels away from the point. a properly filed point will fit into either of these spots in such a way that the wheels never touch the very end of the point. of they don't catch the end, they won't pick the point......
I use my wife's nice diamond fingernail files for this type of work. She bought me a couple so I would stop taking hers, they are thin and durable and get into tight places.
NM